00:00 Chris
Welcome to the line within us, a podcast, serving Christian man who are hungry to be the leaders. They are predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in. So today we’re going to be talking about wealth and building wealth, and I really focused on Deuteronomy eight 18, but you would remember the Lord, your God for it is he who has given you the power to make wealth, to confirm his covenant.

He swore to your fathers as it is this day. And I’m excited to have with me today, Jeff Long, I’ve worked with Jeff in the past and some on some other shows. And Jeff just welcome to the show.

00:38 Jeff
Thanks so much for having me on here today. I’m excited to chat.

00:42 Chris
Absolutely. Really looking forward to it. I know this is going to be a wealth center conversation and you’ve got some really interesting things that have happened in your career and maybe get those lines out that are listening started about a little bit about your journey.

00:55 Jeff
Yeah. So I’ve been really blessed, uh, um, to grow up in a good Christian home. Uh, my grandpa was in ministry all his life. And so I have a heritage, um, of that, uh, of the spiritual side of things. I mean, just blessed beyond measure. Um, and, and so, you know, but, but growing up, it was always hard because a lot of my friends felt like they knew what they wanted to do when they grew up kind of using air quotes there.

Uh, but I never know. You know, and so, uh, my, my dad taught at a Bible college and so I actually went there and got my degree to be a youth pastor and had the time of my life. I got to play sports, meet lifelong friends. I mean, it was amazing, but I, I didn’t feel confident of what I wanted to do. Right. All my friends again, wanted to then be in church life because Bible college, most people want to be church leaders or missionaries or work in a Christian school.

I just didn’t know nothing. Like a good fit. Uh, and so that was, that was a struggle. That was a really difficult time. I felt like this outcast, like how does everyone know what they want to do with their life? And here I am, like, did you know, did, did I miss the voicemail when God left it on my voicemail box back in the day, you know, that was a thing.

And so, uh, that, that period of my life, I look back and, you know, I can see how God connected some dots, but it was difficult. And, and then I graduated and I moved to Ohio or back to Ohio cause I was born there, but grew up in Iowa most of my life. And uh, I worked at a church and, and again had the time of my life.

I met amazing people, worked for great pastors, a small church. Um, but I, I just didn’t feel comfortable or like I was the right fit. And I don’t know how you are Chris or the audience, but like, I kind of felt this awkward, like, well, you can’t tell God, you don’t want to work at a church like that. You know that even though I knew he’s, you know, he’s fine with it, right.

God doesn’t need me. Right. He’s fine without me. Right. Uh, but I just felt this kind of like inner awkwardness of like, well, all my friends are in ministry and my family and all that. How do I kind of say, like, I want to do something different. Well, I think God has a way to kind of push us out of the nest out of our comfort zone and allow us to actually spread our wings.

And it’s scary. Oh, my word. It was terrifying. Um, and so I’ll just kinda tell the story to wrap up. Uh, so, uh, the pastor I was working with, um, and I was doing an internship for a year, so it wasn’t like this, I wasn’t on staff. It wasn’t even a paid position. Which made it even more interesting. Um, so that the pastor I was working with came to me, uh, kind of midway through the internship and said, Jeff, uh, I’m candidating at some churches.

I accepted a position and I’m moving out of state in like a month. And I was just kinda like, well, what I mean, what, what about me? You know, Uh, you know, across the country to, to work here with you. And I don’t know what I’m doing in my life. And I, I was mad at God, you know, I was like, God, I did, you know what, you know, the top tier Christian should do.

Right? You go to Bible college, you work at a church. Like those are the best ones. Right. And he’s like, no, not necessarily, or not always, you know, there’s, I need everybody everywhere, not just in a building on Sundays or weekends or, you know yeah. Pastors do a lot more than on the weekends. Of course I have intimate knowledge of that.

Uh, so anyway, that was, God kind of kicked me out of the nest, uh, which was fantastic.

04:20 Chris
It is, that is, and sometimes we need that kick and we need to, to, to be able to take that leap of faith. And I was at church the other day and leading a Bible study, working with the guys. No. It’s not called a baby step of faith.

This is what’s this called, you know, it’s called a leap for a reason. There’s that moment where you just don’t know the next steps. And I think that’s the beauty of what God can do in our lives when we actually take him out the box and let him do his thing.

04:45 Jeff
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, uh, obviously everybody’s wired differently. I, even though I seek safety and comfort and peace. I’ve learned that a lot of the times, those stepping out in faith or doing something that is scary yields, the biggest rewards, blessing achievements, or confidence, or just kind of that inner pat on the back, you know? And so I think had I sat back and done what was easy, comfortable, safe.

I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be where I am. Right. You know, and on many levels, right. We’re not just talking wealth, we’re not just talking whatever. So, um, I, in fact, now I actively look for opportunities where it feels scary. And I lean into that. Yeah. I kind of teach my kids whenever there’s something scary at school, they have to do a speech or presentation or a test or whatever.

It’s like, yeah. I always tell them anything new is scary, even for adults. And a lot of times there’s good things at the, uh, when you walk out of that, that time. No, I get it. There are truly scary things in this world. You know, sickness, health, you know, disaster. So we’re not talking about that. It’s more of just pushing myself to broaden my horizons in different, uh, arenas.

06:01 Chris
You got that, right? I mean, you didn’t have to. You don’t grow through the easy stuff. I mean, you grow through the hard, I mean, the, the, the whole Bible Proverbs about the iron sharpens iron, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s hard stuff, hitting hard stuff. And through that process, you know, we get better for sure.

Now, so I’m curious now for our listeners out there, so you, you walked down that path, you were doing the Bible college, you worked at a church, it didn’t work. So at what what’d you do next? Where did you go?

06:30 Jeff
Yeah, so, uh, you know, again, you look back and you, uh, you, you see how the dots connect, right? And obviously that’s the Lord connecting those dots.

So, uh, soon after that pastor talked to me about, you know, he was leaving, like I said, I was mad at God. Um, and I probably said some choice words to him and, and, you know, kind of gave him the finger who knows what I was angry. I was really angry. And I remember going to a bookstore and journaling, which I’m not a journal.

I should do it more, but I know I just never did. And for the first time I remember kind of dreaming and like, well, I’ve always liked videos and movies and, you know, whenever I go to a movie, I’m, w I’m looking at the lighting and listening to the soundtrack and looking at the angles, you know, I’m, I’m paying attention to the story, but I’m looking at like just the inner workings of it.

So I’m like, maybe I could do video stuff. Businesses, but you know, back then that was 20 years ago, 21 years ago, uh, video wasn’t as accessible. We didn’t have smartphones and all that. So as I’m journaling, I’m just kind of, for, for the first time writing out, I don’t even know where this is coming from.

And, uh, that night I went to hang out with some friends who are just graduating from a Christian school. And one guy was like, yeah, well, you know, what are you doing? What are you doing? Just kind of trading. And one of my friends was like, you know, I don’t really have a plan, but like, wouldn’t it be cool if we could like do video stuff and work with businesses.

And it was like, he was literally reading the words out of my journal. I was like, wait, what? You know? And so. Okay, God, sorry about all those choice words. I said, you know, earlier that day, uh, out of my anger and, and we just went with it. So a two, two friends, and I started this, uh, video production company.

We kind of had no business starting. Um, you know, here’s the, in me, the Bible college grad starting a business. I’d never done that before. Right. The other two guys had a lot more, uh, um, experience, both degrees and, and video stuff. But honestly my excitement kind of quickly. Uh, not that outpaced them, but, you know, I, um, got up to their level right quickly, just my excitement.

And, and it was almost like this faucet was turned on of excitement and learning and passion. And I mean, I remember staying up all hours of the night, just writing out the. Like business ideas. And it was like, where did this come from? You know? And so anyway, that was kind of the start of the company. Um, and yeah, so it’s, uh, I’m in my 20th year, uh, right now, which is pretty cool.

08:56 Chris
That is amazing. I mean, What the spirit will do when you lean in and you listen and you, and you start acting where he wants you to act. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean that that’s that’s wow. The line within us is here, you know, it’s, it’s me listening and learning and sh you know, sharpening some tools that I didn’t re never would have thought three, four years ago that I could be able to do, but, you know, I, he uses all these different skillsets and he teaches you these things.

And if you lean in and you listen, and like you said, you, you embraced the hard thing. Uh, you know, and I think that for the lions out there listening, that’s what you get that from this story, you know, Jeff, he had this path going down this road, but God had this direction, right.

09:39 Jeff
I could have never written that story, you know, and, and out of it, um, I met my wife. Uh, we were on a missions trip to Namibia Africa. Um, we went to a big church, so we didn’t know each other. I was doing some video work to kind of document and do some other things. And we met there. And even though it wasn’t love at first sight, she actually called me the wrong name, pretty much the whole trip.

Um, and we were both kind of going after different people. You know, God brought us together after, after several months. And, uh, you know, so it’s, it’s just, yeah. Interesting. But, but back to your point about, um, you know, you’ve changed in the last few years, I think that’s the benefit of, of podcasts like yours.

Chris is like, we get to hear the stories of other people we get to learn from other successes, mistakes, uh, and just hear stories. At least for me, the more information I know, the less fear that there is, right. If I can be like, oh, that person is doing X, Y, or Z. Well, Hey, if they could do it, maybe I could, you know, I’m not the smartest guy, but I’m also not the dumbest. So, uh

10:39 Chris
right. Exactly, exactly. So important. So important. I know Jeff, we’re going to talk about a little bit about real estate investing and that’s something that I’m very interested in and learning from you. You know, as it’s a really cool area to, to start evaluating, you know, building wealth in a godly way.

And so I’ll tell you what, let’s take a quick break and then we can jump back in and maybe you can give us that story on, on that side of the, of your journey.

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All right. We’re back guys. So, Jeff, we were just talking about your journey to where you’re at now that you’re your Bible studying and, and through college, and that took you down another path, you, your entrepreneur in a wonderful career data, video marketing, helping us so many manufacturers out there, but you also do a lot of other things with real estate.

And that’s when, when you and I were talking it, it really caught my ear because I don’t really do that. And I love to learn more. And I’m sure there’s a lot of, a lot of lions out there listening that would love to learn more.

12:41 Jeff
Yeah. So again, talk about a story I could have never written for myself. Right? Part of that is, uh, in school, uh, elementary, junior high high school, any, any school that I’ve taken? Uh, I used to hate math. I used to hate spreadsheets and I, I used those words per uh, um, on purpose. I still struggle with it and I still don’t love math and I still don’t love spreadsheets, but, uh, those helped me with real estate.

And so, and I always thought that. Investing, whether it’s stocks or real estate or anything was for like the smart, rich people. And I definitely was neither of those. Right. And so I kind of felt like I, I snuck into this club at any minute. They’re gonna find out and kick me out. So let me tell the story before they do that.

Um, so like I said before, my, my grandpa was in ministry all his life. He was a pastor for 20 years. And he worked at a Christian camp, uh, in, uh, um, kind of Northern Michigan for 20 years. Then he retired again using air quotes and he started to missions organizations, nonprofits, uh, for 20 years. So we kind of had these, these 20 year periods and then he actually got cancer and I think within nine months or so he, he passed away and this is, uh, 2015 or so, uh, and, and for, for many decades he had some apartment buildings and different things and things that I knew about, but.

Never really talked about never really. And not that he was hiding it. It just, wasn’t a, a thing. If we’re talking about him, uh, in the few times I went there, I kind of had a bad attitude or a judgemental, like why would you, you know, rent there and, you know, just really sinful, you know, to be honest. Well, when he passed, he, he left a small inheritance, not huge, just, you know, a little lump sum there.

And it really. It was like a spark and it was like, okay, my, my grandpa left this a spiritual inheritance. I mean, he was very well-known in, in certain denominations and things. I mean, uh, even to this day, you know, it’s, it’s pretty cool to see his, uh, his, um, spiritual inherit or spiritual legacy. Um, and so I’m like, okay, if he could leave a spiritual legacy and as well as this little financial, uh, thing for me, I mean, imagine.

Yeah, I could have a similar thing. I don’t know. I mean, God can use anybody, right? Why not? Me and my wife and I had saved a little bit, um, ourselves. And so we kind of had this little thing and I, I felt. Again, spark of like that money sitting in the bank, earning hardly any interest is doing nobody, any good.

Like this is almost a crime that it’s there. So, um, that really got me interested in real estate, but again, let’s go back. I hated math. I hated spreadsheets. You know, investing of any type is for the smart, rich people. So that’s four strikes against me, you know, no baseball player, but I think I’m out already.

Right. I, it took me a year or two to, to learn to research podcasts, webinars, videos, courses, you name it, books, even learn what, what are kind of simpler concepts, you know, some people latch on. So, um, I bumped in, I, uh, I had a mentor that goes to my church. She has a hundred plus, uh, call them doors, meaning, uh, units.

And, uh, I needed a. And once I had those two people to kind of help me out, I bought the first one and, uh, it was really cheap. I mean, I’m in Dayton, Ohio, the first property was $18,900 and it was a fine property. I mean, you couldn’t do that now, but you know, times have changed. Um, The person that owned it, I found out later went to my church.

So it was like, well, that’s crazy. Um, we, we put, you know, 15, 20,000 into it just to bring it up a little bit, make it nicer. Um, and once that was done, it was like, wow, that was actually easier than I thought. And it rented for, I think, uh, 8 75, $900 or whatever, and, and, you know, cash flowed kind of day, day one.

And, uh, um, Once I got that first one, it was, it was an addiction. I’ll be honest. It was like, well, that was really hard, but my word that was really fun. Right. And, and it, it allows me to, um, It allows me to improve neighborhoods, house by house, you know, uh, you know, yes, there’s a definitely a financial benefit and that’s the reason I got into it.

So I don’t want to sugar coat this and make some spiritual giant that, that I’m not. But as a side benefit, um, some of the properties have single moms and we could say, Just be good landlords, good owners, you know, be good people. And sometimes they’re not used to that. Uh, so it lets us, you know, improve their lives and give them a clean, safe place.

That’s their home, you know, that they can feel comfortable. And so, yeah, over the last, uh, three, three and a half years of have grown, it have, uh, 12 units or 15 doors as we call it. So single family homes and duplexes, right.

17:35 Chris
That is, that is awesome. I mean, the impact on others is so big, you know, and talk about, you know, building wealth the godly way and trying to help others along the way.

This is a great, great way to do that, you know, and I always. When I thought real estate investment and things like that, I was, for some reason, I just always went into my mind, these six figures investments, and, you know, maybe, and maybe that’s just where my, my lack of education is, but it doesn’t sound like that’s really the preferred path to get.

18:04 Jeff
Yeah. I mean, and, and obviously since I live in the Midwest and Ohio, it’s kind of, you know, in my backyard type of thing, which it’s not in my neighborhood, it’s not even in my little town. I have to go kind of in a, um, you know, downtown Dayton type of thing. And there’s pros and cons to some of those neighborhoods.

Um, But, but that’s kind of typical in the Midwest, whether it’s Indianapolis or, you know, anywhere in the Midwest, it’s low purchase price, good amount of rent. And so there’s, there’s certain metrics. Uh, one of them it’s called the 1% rule. So your rent should be at least 1% of your purchase price. So that’s kind of, uh, you know, so if it a purchase price of a hundred thousand, it should rent for about.

Right now, uh, rules are made to be broken. So it could be a little less than 1% 0.7, 1.8, whatever. It could be a lot more. I have some that are like 2%, you know, so, um, so it just depends.

18:58 Chris
And you mentioned, so really getting started. I mean, obviously you consume a lot of material, videos, courses, things like that, but you mentioned to people and I don’t want to just gloss over that finding a good realtor and a mentor, you know?

W why was that such a big impact? I make, as I’m thinking to myself, if I want to get going in this, I know, I know the realtor I’ll go to, but I’m not sure where to find the mentor. Like, how’d you go about.

19:24 Jeff
Yeah. So, I mean, I, I was blessed in that he, he goes to my church, um, and uh, super generous guy. In fact, I said, Hey, mark, could I like, I’ll, I’ll buy you a steak dinner, like, whatever you want.

I will, I don’t care how much it costs. Like I just want to pick your brain. You know, I didn’t want to be that guy that, you know, takes him to McDonald’s and, you know, waste his time. Like. Somehow I say, thank you. So it was like, you know what, let, uh, have you and your wife meet me. And, and, uh, and so I thought we were meeting this restaurant.

We, we meet there. He’s like, God, you just jump in my truck. And he drove us around for a couple hours showing us properties, telling us stories. And, and again, at least for me, the more information I have the lower, the fear typically gets, you know, it’s like, oh, okay. So, um, I kind of saw Mark’s strengths and weaknesses and, and so, yeah.

That really was beneficial. Then I could ask questions, you know, cause right. As I was doing that first rehab, um, in, in. I did a fair amount of it because I wanted to learn just the process.

20:24 Chris
So the actual, like, just doing that reconstruction,

20:28 Jeff
it was, I call it like a lipstick rehab. Right. It didn’t need, you know, we weren’t adding bedrooms or whatever,

20:34 Chris
and all that was good.

20:35 Jeff
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It was. And I had a contractor. The real work, you know, I’m doing just a painting to just little stuff. Right. Um, uh, but it was in a neighborhood that was kinda rough or places that we’ve necessarily wouldn’t live. Um, it’s improved since, and I had, um, somebody that’s influential in my life, very successful in the business side of things.

Pretty much say, Jeff, why why’d you buy that? They pretty much said Jeff, you’re an idiot is the way I took it. They didn’t say those words. Um, and it was really, really difficult for many months as we’re fixing it up. I’m like, am I, you know, am I right? The kind of the thoughts that I always had, I’m bad at math.

Um, I’m not smart at spreadsheets and all that. Right. Um, but once we fix it up, God got it rented. I showed him the numbers here. Oh man. That’s that’s awesome. I might want to invest with you, you, so that was kind of a cool, cool thing. And that brings me to, the reason I’ve been able to scale is through relationships.

So I don’t want the listener to think home, man, Jeff has tons of money pouring out of his pockets. Most of the properties I’ve purchased have been, um, through kind of partnerships with other people. So let me kind of give you a scenario. This might open people’s eyes. I, I always look for win-win opportunities.

So let’s say I find a property and let’s say it’s 50,000, a hundred thousand. It doesn’t matter. If, if a property, at least in my areas under, I think it’s a hundred thousand, a bank typically wants it purchased in cash, and then they want it rented for a period of time, typically six months. Okay. Then they can put a loan on it in what’s called a cash out refinance.

So somebody has to come to the table with all this cash, which I don’t have all this cash. Right. Um, so I work with private lenders, so they lend to. Uh, money to buy the property. I give them a 10% interest only loan typically for a year. Sometimes it’s a little flexible because we’re in crazy times and, you know, we just can’t guarantee.

So I’ll buy the property. I’ll fix it up. When I say, I mean, my contractors now I have a team doing it. Um, and then we rent. So it’s, it’s a better property now because it’s fixed up. There’s a tenant in there. So it’s stable, it’s making money. So the bank is more confident in it as an asset. Right. And then I cash.

Uh, then I get a loan. Okay. And then I cash out my, uh, private lenders. So sometimes we then rinse and repeat, we do another property or another private lender. Does it. So, um, does that make sense or is that

23:09 Chris
I’m trying to think through like, and so, and also you’re having rent that’s rolling in, right? Assuming that’s accumulating and that’s going to down as like down payments on your next properties or, or as those.

23:21 Jeff
Okay. Yeah. It’s, it’s a tricky thing. Um, so there’s. A, um, strategy called the Burr method brrrr. So you buy you rehab, you rent, you fi refinance, you repeat supper. Uh, so typically if you’re buying it kind of low, fixing it up, it’s worth more, less.

Our market is very generous as we’re recording. So there’s some benefits there. So typically you’re, you’re, um, getting a loan for a higher amount than what you bought at four plus rehab. Um, so that’s, and I’ve had somewhere, I, I make money. Some I’ve broken, even. There’s been a couple where I leave, you know, five or 10,000 in the property.

So it, you know, it’s, it’s always kind of juggling all of this. But, but these private lenders, typically they have either money in the bank doing nothing, um, or they want to invest themselves, but they don’t want to have to do the legwork. The finding the deal, working with contractors, all that stuff it’s it’s work.

Right. Um, or maybe they have a 401k that they, they want to get better returns on their anyway, there’s, uh, a lot of different reasons. They may want to kind of do a partnership with me. And it’s not that they don’t, they don’t get the problem. Now if I default, they would get it, you know, just cause that’s, that’s the arrangement, but it’s a, you know, a 10% interest only loan guaranteed by me.

And you know, the real estate that I have is, is a pretty. Beneficial thing to some people, not to everybody, but the private lenders that I work with.

24:51 Chris
So it’s a short-term investment for them, but you’re more in the long-term game.

24:56 Jeff
Correct. Yeah. I, I call these private lenders is more of like a bridge loan, right? So they are the bridge between me and the long-term loan. Because again, I don’t have the cash to keep buying, you know, 50, a hundred thousand dollar properties. I mean, that’s a lot of money that, you know, I, I, um, I don’t have whatever, so, and it’s, it’s all about relationships. None of it’s family. So it’s not like I have a rich uncle that’s, you know, dumping buckets of money into my account.

It’s just relationships of, of people in different mastermind groups or different. Just kind of mentioned, Hey, if you know, here’s what I’m doing. If you know of anybody, let me know. And they’re like, cool. I might want to do that. You know? So it’s, it’s kind of a fun.

25:35 Chris
I love it. I love it. I tell you what Jeff, let’s take a quick break and I have some more questions on this, cause this, this is really good stuff for our lines that want to, to lean into this real estate investment as they, as they grow in the future.

25:47 Jeff
Sure.

25:50 Chris
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So we’re back here with Jeff and Jeff. And one thing I was thinking. You know, you you’ve really made this process work for you. What are some headwinds? What, what maybe what are some things you’ve learned along the way that, you know, getting started? You know, if this could be, it sounds like it could be a pretty daunting task in front of you if you’re a young guy and you’re not knowing the way to, to, you know, to really lean in and get this going.

Are there any headwinds that you, that you just want to caution people about that they should be.

27:19 Jeff
Um, for me, it was, you know, I’ve surrounded myself with other investors, both that are way ahead of me or alongside of me, or, you know, coming up and just talking about it. I listened to a lot of different podcasts, both manufacturing as you know, as well as marketing, but also as there’s some good, uh, uh, podcasts, like, uh, bigger pockets.com, it’s kind of like the go-to website.

They have a couple of. Podcasts like for rookies as well as more established. Um, so the, you know, uh, there’s some great Facebook groups and there’s what I like about real estate is there’s a lot of different. Ways to achieve this financial success and whatever you’re aiming for. So, you know, like you mentioned, most of mine are what we call long-term rentals.

So we had a tenant in there. They rent it, hopefully for many years, rents go up, they’re paying down the mortgage and it appreciates plus the tax benefits. So there’s kind of this four, four part a benefit to it. Um, but there’s, you know, people buy apartment buildings or people do commercial spaces.

Something I’m looking into in the last couple of weeks or a month or two is short-term rentals. So think Airbnb’s those. Can your net cashflow or your net profit can be. Several thousand dollars a month, right? I mean, how cool is that? You know, you can, uh, you can buy a vacation property or a place by hospital or something.

And on the side, make a couple thousand dollars. I mean, how, how amazing is that? So that’s something that I’m looking at, uh, and with the right systems. It’s fairly easy and doable and,

28:56 Chris
and I’m glad you said that word systems. Cause one thing, you know, as coaching with, you know, I’ve tried, I’ve coached a lot of men and I sat down very, as recently as this week with a couple that are really struggling with debt and you know, this, it sounds like in this scenario, there are loans out there.

So. Is there any fear on that? Like if tenants don’t pay, I made it, I mean, any, any safeguards that you you’d want to put in place before you jump into too many properties? Just trying to get some, some guidance there,

29:29 Jeff
I would say, and I’m kind of using best practices without knowing, you know, individual stories and all that, you know, for me and my wife, um, personal debt is different than business.

Okay. So from, and we have a loan on our house where we live, but, you know, we’ve, we’ve made some big chunk pay downs and kind of the goal is to pay it off before the 30 year mark. So I would say, yeah, if you have big debt, you know, car credit cards definitely pay those down, get that monkey off your back.

Right. Be smart. You know, we, we didn’t have that. We, you know, our cars are paid off. No, no student debt, no credit card stuff. So we had that freedom. But it’s a, a ongoing discussion with my wife and I about how much. Real estate debt is too much or enough when to pay down what opportunity, you know, so it’s, it’s a discussion.

We each have our own threshold, uh, for comfort comfortability with that. Right. Um, you know, I, because I’m, self-employed, there’s less of a, a safety net from a. Uh, financial side, you know, nothing’s guaranteed, right. You know, I have a good small team when my marketing agency, I, I think we’re doing awesome stuff, but at the same time, having that safety net of real estate and some other stuff is, uh, a beneficial thing.

So yes, there’s a lot of fear. I am more aggressive. I am more entrepreneurial, I think. With more properties. It reduces the risk. Meaning if I have two or three tenants move out. Yeah. It’s not a good thing, but it’s not going to destroy me. And we have some, whenever I run my numbers, I have. Um, buckets for what we call capital expenditures.

So new roof, new furnace, kind of the big things that will, uh, bad, you know, every 10, 20, whatever years in, in a house, I also have make a bucket for maintenance, you know, plumbing breaks or whatever, you know, just to kind of fix things. And then we also save for other things. So, you know, when all is said and done, there’s still cashflow.

That’s very important, right? I think it’s a fear tolerance or risk tolerance, you know, I’ve people in my family that wouldn’t touch this thing with a 10 foot pole. They think I’m the weirdest guy ever. And they’re partly right. Uh, but I love it. I just, I, uh, Uh, God’s wired me in such a way where that fear probably should be a little more at times.

I’ll be honest, you know, sometimes I need more of that healthy fear, but, um, you know, I kind of have a goal I’m working towards from a cashflow perspective with these rentals and then we’ll pay them back. You know, go from there.

32:02 Chris
What’s interesting because you, you made the, you’re making the differentiation between the personal debt and the business debt. So I’m assuming there’s like an LLC or something in place that you have to manage your properties.

32:12 Jeff
Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t manage all of mine. So out of the, uh, 12 properties or 15 doors, I actually still manage, uh, five or six of them because they’re so easy. Like, it’s crazy. So let me give you a couple of examples because people always say, well, Jeff, what about the toilet that breaks it?

2:00 AM in the, in the night or whatever. Okay. That can be. Right. And I tell my tenants, if something bad happens, here’s a list of plumbers or electricians or whatever to call in the night, you know? So that’s one way. And then during the day, if they have an issue, they text me, everybody texts. These days I texted plumber, handyman, repair, whatever they go out and they fix it done, you know, five minutes later, it’s off my back off my shoulders.

Right. So there’s no, at least for me, there’s no fear. And I’ve had. I don’t want to say horror stories, some bad things happen that I knew were going to happen. Right. When, anytime you’re in business or doing something that there’s a reward, something bad’s going to happen. It’s just when, so I knew that going in.

So when bad stuff happens, it’s like, all right, that stinks. Right. Well, we’ll fix it. We’ll get it taken care of. We’ll make it right. Whatever it is. And we’ll go on our way. So.

33:18 Chris
And it sounds like those relationships you have with those contractors are important too, because they’re going to respond and you’ve probably built some trust over the years, working with the different ones.

33:28 Jeff
Yeah. One guy, there was a amazing hot tub in the back of one of the properties when I bought it. And I was like, I don’t want to have the liability, all that. I just don’t talk to with my wife. Want to stop it here. Uh, and, um, we weren’t sure if it even works. So I told my, my main contractor, if you can haul it away, it’s yours.

And it’s like a $6,000 hot tub, you know? And so he, I think he fixed it up and he’s using it and it’s like, that’s fine. You know, I could have been like, I’ll sell it to you for what it was like, you know what? Just get rid of it and use it. And yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we’ve, we’ve got a great relationship.

So, um, and then I have property managers to handle the other properties and I’m kind of slowly giving them more and more responsibilities. And so, um, yeah, I mean, it, it can take as much or as little as you want, whether you do the management yourself or you offload it, but most of it’s just kind of texting, uh, a specialist to take care of it.

And, you know, they send you the bill and you take care of that and it’s done. So. You know, but six that I manage, I might spend 30 minutes a month just doing little texts here and there. Maybe, you know, I probably spend more time on the financials, the bookkeeping, which I’m offloading to a bookkeeper as we speak. Uh, so anyway, that’s good.

34:42 Chris
That’s good. You know, and when I think through now, When you look online like HDTV and all these shows. Now they’re all about flipping and they’re not really into the long-term strategy of, of hold invest for that, for that long-term game. And maybe that’s tainted a lot of way.

People think about, you know, cause they’re looking for the quick dollar versus the steady long dollar. That’s going to give you that, that reserve, that, that annual income on a really tight basis on a regular, you know, for years to. And,

35:13 Jeff
and flipping is okay. I have some friends at duke flipping full or part-time, but flipping is a job. Right. And so, yes, there’s some financial benefit, you know, when you flip it and sell it and profit 50 grand or a hundred, I mean, it’s like, oh my word, that’s crazy. But then you have to do another one and another one. So it’s not passive. And not that mine is a hundred percent passive, obviously, you know, I’m still doing a little stuff here and there.

Um, I could probably do less. I just love it so much. I’m always looking at new properties or pod, you know, so it’s, it’s kind of this fun thing. Um, but yeah, I always tell people if I can do it, you know, a guy that had no financial background or savviness or didn’t, wasn’t good at math or spreadsheets or, you know, all of that.

If I could learn it, I think anybody can, you know, cause. I’m still surprised at where I it’s like, how did I, how did I do this? You know? And obviously it was the Lord. It was a hundred percent him because I could have never written this story

36:05 Chris
for sure. I mean, w were there any, when you think back getting started, were there any courses or books, you know, I’m just thankful some resources for, for the listeners out there that may want, just to, just to give them that taste of where they could go to. You know, doing some investigation.

36:21 Jeff
So, um, I mean, biggerpockets.com, they have, I think 2 million people on their forums. I mean, not all active or whatever, but they have free forums. They have free podcasts. I think they have courses. They have, I think weekly webinars still. Uh, so they, their books, courses, podcasts, I mean, yeah.

Chew those up and, and they have different podcasts and books and materials for short-term rentals or long-term rentals or. Commercial or, you know, whatever kind of little sub niche you want to investigate. Sure. You know, go there. And then obviously podcasts and YouTube, you know, YouTube typically are shorter, you know, video snippets or whatever, but, you know, just find people and, um, you know, be careful what you pay for.

There are a lot of, uh, gurus out there that have, you know, expensive courses where you just don’t get much value. So, you know, I wouldn’t spend money right off the bat, but I have spent. And I think there’s, uh, if you invest in yourself as well as in, in your learning, you know, by buying some of these materials, so.

You know, don’t be afraid to invest, but also don’t think that that’s your only option.

37:29 Chris
For sure. And I think to just have some realistic expectations going into it, you know, we’re, we’re not all these strategies are not the, the millionaire overnight. Of course they take time. So I think there’s too many towns we can get into that.

We gotta make the quick buck right now. You would got to go, go, go. But. I love this type of strategy because there is that, that residual it’s growing, you know, that’s, that’s a legacy. You can leave back to your children, the impact you’re making on other people’s lives, just by giving them, you know, affordable housing that you know, that you’re taking care of, all these things that are so many great points to, to this.

So just, just hats off to you for the success you had and, and for the information you’ve shared in here.

38:09 Jeff
Well, thank you. Yeah, it’s been, yeah, like I said, it’s been, it’s been amazing. And I think, you know, the, like the work that you do, coaching people to even get them to a point where investing is possible is amazing, you know?

So that’s yeah. It’s, I think there is value in coaching and consulting, because like I said, I know I couldn’t have done this with. Free and paid help. Right.

38:33 Chris
Right. And that’s the big thing for the coaching that I, that I really do with so many people trying to, you know, the health, wealth, and self, but that, that wealth piece there’s so much that we’re just not taught.

And you know, so far as debt and, you know, I’ve meet with so many people who have six figures of student loan debt and, you know, Five figures of credit card and personal debt and in cars that they can’t afford, but they’re still in them. So just trying to get those habits, cause it’s, you know, building wealth, it’s just habits.

It’s good habits. And making sure you have, you know, checks in places. I mean, just like your little 1% rule, it’s a great little rule, right? It’s things like that. Uh, the, the Burr process that you mentioned. So, um, That’s what I see you and just the opportunity to help some people out there get to that point.

You know? Cause I I’ve met with so many that were wanting this look, you’re six figures in debt. You can’t invest like that. You got, you got to get to that point so that when you, when you do invest, you’re ready and then you’ll be building that wealth the way God wants us to. So, you know, Jeff, any, anything else?

I mean, this. Phenomenal information that you’re sharing today for, for out there for investing in real estate and things like that.

39:46 Jeff
Yeah. I think the only thing that kind of pops up into my brain. For the listener and they can research this more is a term called house hacking. So especially like I have a nephew who, a single kind of younger guy and it’s like, Hey, if you’re already paying rent or buying a house, what if you either bought a house and rented it out to your friends, you know, three or four of you guys live there.

So you live there for free. So they’re paying. Or what, if you bought a duplex triplex or fourplex, you live in a unit and then have a property manager manage the other units, find a renters and all that. So again, they pay for your rent for your property, for your mortgage. And you know, so they were paying the mortgage down as you’re living for free.

And you have this assets. You know, to, to some people, house hacking is a amazing way to kind of live for free and have other people kind of buy your house asset for you. That is great.

40:42 Chris
I was actually coaching a gentleman in Florida right now through, through house hacking. And he cause right now he is he’s the runner and he’s paying he’s $600 a month and that’s one.

And I think the house has three other tenants. Oh, nice. And you know, you, you do the math, it adds up pretty quickly. He’s like, I want to do that. I’m like exactly. I said, that’s house hacking. So we need to find a property and then in tenants and make sure, you know, cause you’re there, you can manage it. You can oversee it.

I said, but there’s risk that comes with it. So we’re trying to get him financially ready to do that. But that is a great tip that, that I hadn’t even thought of till you just mentioned just now that yes, that house hacking is a great way to get into this.

41:25 Jeff
Yeah, I had somebody do, uh, say that they have a, a 4, 3, 2, 1 strategy. So you buy a fourplex, then you rent it out. You live there, rent it out. Then you move out after a year. Cause that’s the, the lending laws or whatever, then you might try Plex. And then that to one, you know, it was kind of your forever home or your, you know, where you actually don’t have roommates. So that’s one strategy is 4, 3, 2, 1.

41:49 Chris
So good stuff. Good stuff with Jeff. This has been phenomenal again. Thank you so much for what you share for the lines out there. I know we’re, we’re, we’re making them better. We’re giving them ideas, you know, check out the show notes. The references that Jeff mentioned. We’ll definitely have those there.

And Jeff, thank you again, my friend. I hope you have a blessed day, buddy.

42:06 Jeff
Thanks so much, Chris. I’ve enjoyed being on your show.

42:11 Chris
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And that was a great conversation with Jeff Long. I’ll tell you what I did not know a lot about real estate investing still have a lot to learn, but he dropped a ton of nuggets out there for us guys. So, you know, if you’re interested in that, go about it the godly way, right? I mean, make sure that you’re, you’re trying to build wealth the way God wants you to.

And there’s some really good tips. He went, he went through, check out the show notes they’re there. And the, and that’s what they’re there for. They’re there to give you those resources that you need to take this to the next level. If you’re liking the line within us, share it with others. You really need to, don’t put this in your pocket.

This needs to be something that you, that you get out, that you embrace, that you endorse, that you say, Hey, you know what, brother, this has been really helpful for me in my Christian walk. And I think you would enjoy it. So share it, give that five star rating, write a review that really helps. And it can just be one sentence, but it’s a big deal.

And remember, you can go to the line within dot. To find all the information about the show, the resources we’re building, the coaching information that we put together that really focuses on health, wealth, and self and the Bible study and some materials we’re putting together there. So there’s a ton of information we’re building and resources that we’re trying to get out there for you guys.

Cause we know, you know, Satan is attacking and he’s attacking everything. You need some resources, you need some, some encouragement, and we’re trying to do that for you each and every day. So thank you again for watching the line within us. And remember, today is a day that you can unleash the lion within .