00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the lion within us, a podcast, serving Christian man who are hungry to be the leaders they’re predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainger let’s jump in. All right guys, this week the scripture we’ve been talking about first John four, four, you are from God lower shoulder and have overcome them because greater is he who is in you than he, who is in the world.

And I told you guys on a spiritual kickoff, what can we talk about perseverance today? So I brought in the. He wrote the book on perseverance literally is called Tynesah perseverance. His name is Greg Grossman, and he works as a Bible case, no chaplain for marketplace chaplains, and as the president and founder of beyond perseverance, LLC, which is a Christian life coaching company geared towards helping others achieve sustainable life change.

He’s adjunct professor at Louisiana Baptist university and seminary teaching Christian counseling and Christian life coaching class. He desires to see spiritual transformation and people while allow them to live out a simple life before God and his people, Greg and his wife, Valerie. They live in Dallas, Fort worth metroplex.

And I have so excited to have him join us here today. So Greg, how you doing my friend?

01:09 Gregg Grossman
Doing great. Chris is great to be here.

01:13 Chris Grainger
Oh, I’m so excited to have you here. First of all, I loved your book. I can’t wait to dig into it and talk about, I think this is a topic that guys need to be, they need to hear. And I’m curious before we get going.

Cause I know you’re going to talk a lot about your story, your history, your story, and everything, but just the definition of perseverance in general, how do you define

01:31 Gregg Grossman
that? I would say perseverance would be moving beyond your circumstances, despite what feel or hear.

01:43 Chris Grainger
Wow. That’s great. That’s great.

So you just got to move past it,

01:46 Gregg Grossman
right? Just move forward and. And worked through it. Yes, sir.

01:54 Chris Grainger
Wow. I’m excited. I know we’re going to be unpacking a lot here. And he talked about in your book your Jewish roots and from childhood and from that journey to becoming a messianic Jew, which I’m very excited to have that we are a first messianic Jew we’ve had on the line with innocent.

I told my wife we’re going to connect. She was so excited cause she just loves to Jewish culture. She actually has a Jewish study. That’s where she spends a lot of her time. She just, she gets field there just by studying Jewish traditions. And I think it just it’s made me a better Christian too.

So I’m curious to walk us through some of your roots from those, from that Jewish childhood to where you are.

02:33 Gregg Grossman
I was raised in the reform synagogue from about a age five up to about age 13. And I, my parents sent me to Sunday school every Sunday where we had Jewish education.

And then at some point I started to learn Hebrew and attended Hebrew school for a couple of years before my bar mitzvah is a, in the Hebrew. It means some of the commandment bought is for the girl bars for the. And it’s 13, it’s a Rite of passage where the boy and the girl are called up to the Torah.

And I spent a few years with Hebrew doing that studying and had my bar mitzvah at 13 at the synagogue. It was after that, that I was offered to go on for a few more years for confirmation. Would they do that in the synagogue? And I think, I believe my. Yeah, my mother even offered to send me to Israel as a gift, but I didn’t want to do it at that point.

I didn’t want to do that. And Judaism became not in the forefront of the, it settled into the mid point and even the back part of wham, but it never left. It just wasn’t as prominent at that time. My mother was the president of a philanthropic group of whats group called Hadassah, which is the women’s Zionist organization of America.

So she finished up her service and Judaism laid in my heart where I came back to it later on.

04:03 Chris Grainger
Okay. You said you take Jewish class. I’m sorry, Hebrew classes. That, that sounds like that was pretty some intense education for a

04:14 Gregg Grossman
young man. W we had the Hebrew I had the Sunday school for the Jewish education, the other things.

And then and then it was more intensive from, for those two years where I had to go after school for a few weeks. And learn the Hebrew language and learn the prayers. And we recited a lot of pros. The teacher went over a lot of things, but yeah, there was teaching a young person, the Hebrew language, but it ha it was a line with the Torah.

It was a line with what I was preparing to do for this event at age 13.

04:51 Chris Grainger
You mentioned earlier in the book about an accident and there was an accident that greatly impacted your life. And I would love for you to share what you would have with that for our listeners out there to paint that picture.

05:03 Gregg Grossman
There was two accents for me. My brother was in a head-on collision and he he was severely, critically injured and stay in a brainstem down.

As a result oxygen, the brain did he was in a hospital for several months and then he got transferred to a head injury hospital. My brother was severely brain-injured he from that accident and that accident was devastating. How was my brother? Was my brother. My brother was 28, 28 years old, one and a half, and I was 24.

So there’s a four year difference. And so Todd had his acts and I was up at school getting ready. To go back to school. And so I had a summer class with a psychology professor and I’d found out when I got into the program at school, that he was the head of the counseling department.

So I saw him out for some counseling and he w he said Greg, I’m sorry to hear about your brother’s accident. I am here for you. So he said, I’d I’m here to give you some counseling, but you can’t take any more classes with me to maintain the ethics of things as he did. So we work together and that really helped me immensely.

Process my brother’s accident, but my brother’s accident was not just processing the acute trauma. It’s been a lifelong process of doing it. So that was the first accident as you would relate it to. There were two, and I had a, an accident myself. When I graduated college, I was moved down to south Florida to be with my family.

And I was taking some graduate classes in counseling at a school and I was jogging and I was. Not just jogging with traffic and they stepped into traffic and a car hit me from behind. And I was critically injured, lost a lot of blood, almost bled to death on that road.

And my leg was shattered in two places. So there began the journey of recovering from that. And I had been saved not too long before. I was hit by that car. And my faith is what sustained me through the accident when I was going out of the hospital was in an ICU for a bit and went into, was in the regular ports of the hospital.

He got transferred to a rehab hospital and God began to really move in such a magnificent way to minister to me, in fact that I captured a lot of that in the book is. As you might’ve read. I put a lot of journals in there that I didn’t intend to put in, but I encourage folks to write things down because you never know when you’re going to need them later on either to refer to, or share with someone else.

And if the Lord leads you to publish, it, doesn’t have to be a book, but it could be in some other way to, to encourage people to encourage men. So that’s what happened, Chris.

07:46 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. And I’m glad you alluded to that because it definitely it’s something that it caught. It caught my attention that you had those journal entries.

And you can almost see your progression as you’ve gone through your life. All those different journal entries. Don’t worry. You are at a specific moment of time. What greater way to pull it than he is so hard to just pull off memory, but you had it in writing. You could just go back there and pull it directly from there.

08:10 Gregg Grossman
That’s a great point. In fact, my brother had his accident and I documented that in my book. The morning flight was a very Solomon sad flight from. As I’m talking, I get chills throughout my body. Cause some just I was there and I was there and I picked up a pen in my hand and that little airplane that flew me to look pretty airport from Vermont.

And I just started writing and I kept that journal. And so as the months and years went by, I saw something on the inside I believe was the Lord moved me to write that down. And so I transcribed it. It was written in pencil. And we use whatever implement writing implement I had, which was a pencil.

And I transcribed it. I put it in a safe place years and years later, I looked back at journal and it was smudged like melted butter on a hot summer day. You couldn’t even read it. So I got, God had me use that to capture what I was going through and then to transcribe it and then to wait. Use it in a book to help people understand that where I was at that God was speaking to me.

And he’ll speak to you the reader as you’re going through your tragedy and in life.

09:18 Chris Grainger
I made just this, both those stories that perseverance just raises to the front. This, I can’t imagine being hit by a car when you’re running and just everything you had to go through you, what you walked through all that, but I want to back up a little bit, cause you.

And very briefly you said you had already been saved. So can you take us to that point because I’d like to know for our, for the lines that they’re listening when did you make that when did that happen in your heart to decide to follow it, to follow Jesus?

09:53 Gregg Grossman
When I was up at school, I got, I had adult this isn’t in the book. There were two things I didn’t put in the book, but they were some, there was some leading, so God was starting to tug at my heart. I remember being in my apartment and all of a sudden that still small voice that he died for you.

And I didn’t know, I didn’t know where that came from. I didn’t have any point of reference to that point when the believer and then when I went up to see my brother at the hospital when I went to see him, I was staying in a hotel and Morrison, the draw was a Gideon’s Bible. And so I picked that out, but okay.

The book and started to read a little bit so little by little God must want to plant seeds. Now, when it came down to Florida, I remember riding in my car and hearing a minister on one of the, one of the stations preaching the word of God. With conviction, I think I even shared that my book and then what happened was I was at my father’s house.

So it was laying on the bed watching TBN and Adrian rot, the late Adrian Rogers soccer, Adrian Rogers was on giving a sermon and it really it spoke to. It spoke to me. And then I kept some journal entries and then I moved out of their house and was sitting at the pool one day. I had school coming up in a few months.

And so I heard a radio minister say faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Romans 10, 17. That was the first verse I heard. And it was followed by the spirit of anise, the candle Lord search in the inward parts of the belly searching most part is we see, my mom was saying, yes, Kish because you’re in a most part.

So those two verses right there began ignited something within me. Hebrews four 12 says the word of God is sharper than the towards its sword. God was now beginning to do something now through his word, number two, he sent his word to heal them. And that word began to resonate. Not just up here.

But it resonated in here. And then I ordered a Bible and so a lot of ministry some sermon tapes from this ministry and then began to read the Bible and read their literature and began to grow in my faith and had questions about my faith and wrote this ministry as I wrote in my book. And then it was, at that time I wanted to start getting back into shape.

So I had my headset and some praise and worship music. I was working out too. And then I was hit by the car, but I had several months prior to that, Where I’d like I got on my knees and I said the sinner’s prayer. I was at that point where I read I’m a sinner and that Jesus died for me and that I need to come to him if you confess the Lord Jesus with the amount that and believe in your heart, that God raised him from the dead.

You shall we say with the heart man bleeds into rice with the confession with the mouth confession is made unto salvation, Romans 10, 8, 9 to 10. So at that point, that’s where I gave my heart to the Lord. And not that long afterwards is when the accident happened to me. So that’s a little bit of a, sort of a condensed version of what happened spiritually.

12:47 Chris Grainger
I’m curious, where were you the first one in your family?

12:50 Gregg Grossman
Yeah I, from what I know. There are no other believers. If there are, they didn’t share anything, we grew up in a very someone, I was Jewish, it was middle-class Jewish home, but when mom got divorced, he went through a very painful divorce and was able to get involved in this Jewish topic group.

And it really strengthened her Jewish roots more than she ever had. And so that, that time period of the seventies was only not that long after the Holocaust. So that did use. They were very protective and as they should be, and I respect that. And however, my parents sent me to a mixed school a private school.

So I, I had an opportunity to be without the fellow Jews. Of course, I didn’t go to a Jewish school. There were those back then. I went to a school where my classmates, my fellow classmates were Irish. They were Catholic. They were and so I had that chance to integrate, but traditionally speaking the Jewish people were.

W we’re very much wanting you to stay with. And and frowned upon leaving that simulation. It wasn’t very harsh with me, but it was loud and clear. And as we learned about the atrocities of the Holocaust and it broke my heart. I heard it. And one of my Sunday school classes from eight Lee was Elle’s book the night.

And I wrote about it, the book and it was at that point, plus seeing the Holocaust movie with James wooden Meryl Streep, that really began. Crystallized things, but that is a very painful wound for every Jew dependent. Doesn’t matter if they were religious or not. It’s a very painful wound and it’s a wound that, that we carry with us today.

And we try to teach people around us people in this general, San, and even in the church to, to understand.

14:36 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Absolutely. I was curious too. Did you get any pushback from family? It doesn’t sound like he did it sound like it was pretty.

14:44 Gregg Grossman
Yeah. We mean when accepting, you mean coming to faith?

My my mom didn’t understand when my mom came down to Texas to visit me here, she saw a picture of me being baptized we’re baptized, and we spent about 20 minutes talking to her about, and she thanked me for the conversation. But my mom was, you need to know where the person who said that was my mother was agnostic at that point.

She really did. It was, she was an atheist but she just was severely hurting from my brother’s accident and other things in her divorce. But my father was very angry and very hostile. And yet what was interesting was he would make inappropriate comments like, oh, you need to believe in your own.

At price lover and all these things in a very derogatory tone yet he still brought my Bible and my sermon tapes to the hospital when I was injured. So he didn’t agree with me, but he knew on some level. And that tells me there’s a little bit of Ray of sunshine coming in there from God. And my father.

Disown me basically. And so a lot of years went by and I reconnected with him in the last year of his life and reconciled and wrote about that in the book. It was seeds of forgiveness where I reconciled with a loved one and Jewish people. Many, I’m not the only one, many Jewish people have to go through that.

That there, there are strange there’s a lot of division put in. Yeah. Yeah. It’s oppressive. It’s emotional and make you feel guilty. And this whole combination knows who were in Christ. Jesus so th that’s coming from them, they don’t understand that the natural mind doesn’t know the spiritual thing, so they would react varying

16:27 Chris Grainger
right.

But I’ll tell you what great, but before we go much further, let’s take a quick break and let’s jump back in because I wanted to talk a little bit more about the accident and perseverance, and actually how you won’t do that. And there’s so much insight here. So we’ll take a quick break.

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All right, guys, back here with Greg and we just really talked about. Personally, you know what he has committed to faith and how that meant impacted him and his family. And he just talked about a little persecution there, and I think as Christians, we can expect it Jesus tells us if we’re going to be persecuted, we’re going to face those trials.

But Greg you talked about in your book, you can’t have a testimony till you have a test. I just loved that. And I wanted to speak specifically about your accidents. Maybe that’s something that you’re referring to there, what made you call that point?

18:02 Gregg Grossman
My, my former pastor had said that.

And when he said that, of course, to me, that brought out all the things that I had gone through. We are tested in life and one just needs to go back to job. This testimony really is really an flood. And once you’ve been tested and tried you shine forth as gold as the scripture says.

And so that apply to my situation is I had went through, it took a T a test physically, certainly physically, emotionally, and even spiritually. Yet God in his word, his was faithful. It will always be faithful and has been faithful and will be faithful for you. If you just hang in. It can get a little, the water is in the, on on the pan there on the oven and the self-talking start to boil that’s our emotions, and we don’t understand what’s going on, but we need to be still Psalm 46, 10.

And God’s spirit has ruined, as we say, in Hebrew. And as we say, now, the ruach hakodesh the holy spirit, which cleanses the spirit within that spirit that he cleanses is. That, that spirit of uneasiness in that spirit of anxiety. And when he does that, then you will have that God that you over Shalom you’ll have that peace.

And then you’ll be able to see. That you have now you have a testimony and now you can share that Tufts testimony to encourage others. And that’s what I have done more longitudinally, this book, and this, what I’ve gone through has happened over the course of many years press had mentioned about the synagogue.

I was five years old, but from my accident and that going forward, that was a process. And so that enables me now, in retrospect, With you and me and anything we’ve been through, we can always look back in retrospect when you’re going through it. You don’t see. That’s the weakness and limitations of our humans, but God sees the beginning and the end, he’s the alpha and the omega.

And then when you can look back, you’re going to get what we call in Hebrew, Hotmail. You’re going to get wisdom. You’re going to get insight. You’re going to have a scripture to be able to lean on and going to be able to have a perspective. I learned to have a perspective I never had before, and that strengthened my faith, but I had to go through that.

You can’t have a testimony until you’ve had the test. So a lot of folks want to they want to have the testimony before the test. And but when you get through that you’ll be better than you were before. Your faith is grounded. It always been grounded. He’s oh, he’ll never leave you nor forsake you.

He said that in Devon, even the Hebrew that Deuteronomy said that Hebrew. And so when that time comes to be you’ll recognize that as the Lord.

20:52 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. I thank you. You said you hit the nail on the head. So many guys, they want to have that testimony without the test, but that’s where you get the testimony and why is it great?

It says. At first for your case particular you had to go to some extreme, some excruciating pain and like physical pain to, to help you grow. Why is it that the best growth we have is often the most painful

21:17 Gregg Grossman
I grant you wrote that? Cause I mentioned that in my book and that was something that one of my professors wrote on one of my papers.

And the best growth is the most painful. Physically it doesn’t mean you have to get a lot of the intensity of your pain needs to be great to have the growth. But usually the thing that feels very harsh is nothing compared to what you will glean from it when you move forward and through.

But physical and emotional pain or very hard because there’s a lot of things going on that the brain is doing a lot of things. The body’s reacting. There’s a lot of warfare as a believer there’s things going on in the spiritual realm. And that bring, brought forth here in this physical rupture and the things you’re feeling that I felt and that you may be feeling a very.

First thing you want to do is acknowledge those things. And then also grab hold of that scripture, not just up here, but in here. Number David said, I word I’ve hidden in nine hots. I’m not sin against thee. And when we can get really what happens is some folks can even get downright bitter. And so if that should happen, you just go to the and say, Lord, I’m so sorry.

And he will meet you where you’re at and he will cleanse you from that and forgive you. He understands, he knew you’d had that thought. He knew I had that thought if I, when I got bitter and I got, had difficult going through difficult emotions with my father and everything else. But God sees ahead of that.

And all he asks us to do is just hang in there, work through it and always go to the father because he knows best as the

22:58 Chris Grainger
same. And but when I think through Mandy we’re speaking to Christian men when they hear the word perseverance, they’re want to do it on their own. Greg and what’s you’re saying is Hey, you know what, now yourself you have to rely on the father.

Why is it so hard for men in particular to get this.

23:17 Gregg Grossman
I think some of it could be the way we’re wired, of course. But a lot of it is, has to do with what the Bible says about pride. We get very prideful and we get very so sure of ourselves that we can almost cycle it.

Think of this image. It’s like a little. And the parents are trying to help him. And he say back off, I could do by myself. And in there, there may be crying and there they’re frowning and they just want to do it by themselves. And then little by little that child learns, they can’t do it by themselves that they, they need someone.

So in a. I think we grew up with that, but I think there’s a tendency. There’s an inclination to want to try and control things depending on how our personalities are. But a lot of men try and control the issue and maybe their parents or their family, their upbringing said, it’s not okay for you to cry or to complain or to you need to handle this yourself, handle all I command kind of thing.

And that sorta mentality. Is reinforced as we go through our life events or life events, which are shaped and now men begin to want to control things. And then they soon learn that. Let me give you an analogy. When I was living in Vermont, it was very cold up there. So when I got into my car, there was a sheet of ice cystic on the rear view mirror.

So if I just try, if I just sit I’m just going to go in the back and go like this and then try and I’m not going to rely on the defroster, I’ll back into something and I could hurt myself or hurt someone else. But if I turned that the Froster on, let the core warmup right. And wait this, follow me with this image.

It’s no different in the image. If you’re going through something, you need to turn on the defroster of your heart, because when you do that, the ice in your heart, the sin, the pride, the w the inclination to want to do it yourself, begins to melt like that. Ice on the window, in the car, because the car has warmed up now and the ice melt you can see clearly.

And so that’s what you have to do. Turn on the deferral, serve your heart, which is using that image is the holy spirit is God is turning inward, turning to God. And as he pierces your heart tear may come down your eye and you’ll feel relief, but you could have connected with him in a meaningful way.

And that becomes the beginning of the relationship that you will cherish for the rest of your life.

25:46 Chris Grainger
I am curious on this defroster analogy. How long have you been using that and how did you come up with

25:51 Gregg Grossman
it? That was awesome. A lot of images they, you learn these, I’ve learned these images and metaphors just by living through them.

So let me add a little of that image because it applies to this thing with men and trying to take on things by themselves. When I was in Vermont, back in the day we didn’t w there was no more eight tracks. It was cassette tapes. So I went into my car and I took a cassette tape the end of the plastic.

I’m hitting the ice and what happened that the cover broke. I try to do it on my own. See, and so when you try and do stuff on your own, we ended up making matters worse. We ended up digging the hole deeper. And in a sense, now, when you turn on that, the F when you let God defrost it when you turn to him and so these images in these metaphors I encourage you to look at things so much of the new tech, the new Testament’s written in Greek.

And so you, a lot of times you’ll hear Greek words, you’ll hear your pastor say, that’s where we get the word, oh, that’s where we get this word. And it’s important to take that language and apply it to your life. And that’s what I have done, particularly with using images and metaphors I’ve used them in the book, but I use them here because I wanted to Help you understand this point in a language that you would best understand it with with the car.

Cause we all drive cars and we have rosters.

27:14 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. I thought it was wonderful. If the guys, it definitely resonates with me, I’m sure it resonates with the rest of the guys out there too. Yeah. We need as visuals as man, we need to have that visual to make that connection. So you’re right. So often we want to do it on our own with our all brute strength and think that it’s ours.

And the only time we go to God is when we can’t, we reached the end of the rope and what’s, you’re trying to tell us is, look, that needs to be the first place we go to is to the Lord. And from there that got us that wisdom. The

27:47 Gregg Grossman
Psalmist had done that because in a sense, they got to the point where they were just downtrodden and oppressed, no different than URI.

And so there they learn and you read about the Saundra help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth. And now when they realize that now they’re thinking. More expansive now they’re looking, but once it’s expensive, you have to do what we call contemplation. The mystics did that and the the church the monks and stuff but it’s relevant here contemplating means really just thinking.

Deeply on the word God member in Joshua, one eight, the book of the law shall not depart without shall meditate. That Hebrew word meditate is as muttering. And so you’re muttering. You’re thinking deeply on the things of God, not up here. It’s gotta go up here for us, but you’re getting it down here in your heart and that’s when it resonates.

That’s where like the Velcro it’ll stick on the wall. So to speak of, use that image. And once that happens, then you’ll begin to receive something that you’ve never seen before. But I think one of the things that drives men from not wanting to do that or moving away from that is fear, false evidence, appearing, real false expectations, period.

They’re just, they’re fearful. And so if that should happen to you, my brother. You quote the word of God. God’s not given you the spirit of fear, but a spirit of power love, and a sound mind. He, that fear is coming from without it’s coming from say. Okay. Fear is a door, the enemy. So when that happens, what my, what I learned from my mentor is to say, I said, I’m not fearing.

I will not fear in the name of Jesus. I re I refuse to fear father. Your word says like Jesus, when he was tempted in the. Madison a button man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth, God. So Jesus went back to the scripture. You have to go back to scripture and get that scripture in your heart.

We’re not talking about 30 scriptures or 20 or 10. You get that one or two and get that in your heart and be ready to use that as the Roman soldier, how to use their shield of faith to to, to protect themselves, you have to use the shield of faith, which quenches the far darts of the wicked one, which is, comes in the guise of doubt and fear and other things.

How does that sound right?

30:13 Chris Grainger
I love it. I absolutely love it. Great. Yeah, that was wonderful insight. I tell you what, we’ll take a quick break, cause I want to jump into a couple more things in your book that basically will help our guys and I just, the analogies you’ve done so far and gas and one thing I hope.

Greg knows the word a guy. And if you were going to win this battle, you got to have some of these in your heart the way he does. So we’ll take a quick break and we’ll be right back.

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all right, guys, we’re back here with Greg. He just unpacked a ton of insight for us. Check out everything he just went through because I’ll tell you what it was very impactful for me. And one thing I wanted to touch base beyond Greg is inside your book, perseverance, you talk about humility and I taught, and when I teach about humility and work with our gaseous, and it’s not thinking less of yourself as thinking of yourself less, but you actually said it’s something that you do.

And I’ve never heard it put that way before. So how do you explain this to others? When you say humility is something that you do, what do

32:18 Gregg Grossman
you mean there? Let me explain. Yes, thank you. And what I learned that, and I didn’t put in the book, but I remember being at a, being in a, at a coffee house.

And there was a group of people. It was a couple of comfortable living room type chairs there. And they offered me to sit down and I said, no. Please sit, relax. You enjoy yourself though. They were with a few peaks, several people, and and I found myself in that moment, doing humility.

Humility is not even thinking of yourself at all. Think about here’s another great example. We get hungry. And it’s time, maybe a church or you’re in a buffet. And all of a sudden they announced they’re serving. You’re the first person on the line. And so in a sense, now humility speaks like this. Like it did at the coffee house.

Humility says I’m going to wait till the other people are surfers. There’s some senior people here. There’s some families with small children. I’m going to. I’m going to greet them fact, you can have a ministry online. You can have, what’s called a plate ministries to start handing out the plates and talking to people while they’re online.

And now you’re beginning to interact with them, but that’s humility. That’s living it. That’s actually doing it. That’s actually doing it. Where it’s affecting others or a blessing others and you’re coming from. You’re doing it with your with action. It’s a, to an athlete,

33:48 Chris Grainger
right?

I agree. I immediately, I go to Jesus washing the feet and my brain. That’s just the story I go to where he washed the feet, feeder disciples. He acted, he just did it. He didn’t ask, he got up. He moved. Peter was a little questionable and the way he reacted.

And I think else, guys, sometimes we react strong, strange ways as well, where people are being humbled. I love that was a great opportunity. Great point there that humility. We need to take that action and do it.

34:21 Gregg Grossman
Yes. And you’ll know when to do it. You’ll just know. Again, humility is putting others first.

And it’s not even thinking of yourself at all. And that’s a great illustration, Chris, with Jesus washing this type of speed, that is a great biblical example. But again, we, the Lord will show us ways to apply that humility in different situations. It could be in your home, whatever the situation may be.

It comes from a heart of love. Like that’s, it comes from the heart where the holy spirit lives, and that’s the spirit wanting to reach out and say, Hey, you’re from. And I’m stepping back and I’m doing that because I care about you. I may know you or may not know you. I didn’t know those people in the coffee, but I really wanted them to have the, I have the seat, another example of humility, and it that’s happened to me on the reverse.

I remember I was out, I was an outside sales work and worked for a yellow page. And I, I had, I was getting ready to pay my bill with the subways and the machine was down. I didn’t have any cast wound. The woman behind me said, oh, no worries. I got you. Bill picked up my whole lunch, paid for it.

How many times have you been at the checkout counter at the supermarket? I know I have where you’re on the express line and you have two items and the person in front of you has 10 and they look at you and say, oh, you’d go with. That is humility because the us men may be I’m in a hurry.

We rationalize. I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta be first. I’ve gotta be somewhere. And then we have to learn to wait and delay is good because delay means God is doing something and he has done something here. Delays. You’re going to be a bit, but the person in front of you is showing humility by letting you go in front of him or her.

That’s what

36:13 Chris Grainger
that. I love it. I absolutely love it. And I think as Greg, we’re getting closer to the end here, but as we talked about perseverance, one thing that came to mind when I read your book, it was in the postscript. And I’m gonna read this one question because you’re talking about, I want the guys to think about a lot of times when life smacks you in the face and you’re grieving maybe you’ve lost someone.

If we’ve lost a loved one, maybe you’ve lost a child and you really. I’ve mailed these words, encouraging Greg. And it said, you said if your loved one or friend were sitting at a table across from me right now, what would they tell you about how to handle their death? I just thought that was very impactful for me.

And why did you pull that out? And just curious all that and how that’s applied to you and your life.

37:06 Gregg Grossman
Let me first preface this by saying, God, it puts you in situations with people for a reason that you may not understand in the moment you may in the moment, but later on it’ll impact others.

That comment came from a dear friend of mine, who I had met at the banquet in, in in Indiana. When I graduated Trinity theological seminary, 2016, I got my. And he was at the banquet and we shared our testimonies and we became really good friends when my mother had passed. My friend, doc, Dr.

Lynn Reichert had had talked with me and he had given me that those words that you just shared, it was like a little bit of an exercise. Greg, imagine you’re sitting at a table in your loved one, what would they say to you and how to handle their passing? And I heard him and I didn’t just hear it and say, thank you.

I really heard it and let it get in here. And I began to visually began to go through that in my mind, how my, what my mother would say. And it. It really helped during that acute phase of losing someone now that was something that really was very meaningful for me that I needed to hear.

And it all started because I got friendly with the gentlemen at this banquet and we kept in touch. And so years later he had shared this with me. And my friend is is a Christian counselor, has his doctorate. Very wise and godly man Christian Cushman. But that is what he shared with me. And I wanted to share it with the readers so that they could minister to them if they’re going through some grief and their life.

38:45 Chris Grainger
I just thought it was very impactful for sure. Cause we’re all going through things in life. If it hasn’t hit you yet, it’s going to, it’s just a matter of time. So I just really thought that was great, when he wrote this book, what was the hardest part? What was the hardest part writing?

39:02 Gregg Grossman
I would say the hardest part for me was being able to organize to get my, to write from my heart and to get it out there. And then also once I completed the. The challenging thing. For example, I experienced a lot of warfare doing a member I’m sharing the gospel, I’m giving a presentation of the gospel, and I’m also leading people back to the Lord and and sharing Jesus and a Jewish man.

And Satan does not want that. And Satan threw a lot of darts at may. And I would say that one’s challenging thing was releasing the book and letting it go. And knowing that I had done my part and God will do the rest as he speaks through those pages. But I would think it was the most challenging part for me was I had to find myself having to relive those experiences.

Again, I had to go back and they became very real. With my accident, I’m writing about how to write about my brother’s accident. I had to write about my father but I God has, God will use you as he’s used me, whether it’s in a journal of just for yourself or if it’s for healing and recovery, or if it’s a share with others God will use that for his glory.

So you, so I discerned that there was something going on here that God needed me to to be honest, not only with myself, but with. And that that’s what he, that’s what the Lord desires and that’s what people need. They need someone to be real with them. You can use some humor, you can use some scholarship in there, which I did a little bit of that came out.

But God wants the right. To speak to the receiver, to the reader in a genuine, humble way so that they can understand where they’re coming from. So I would say overall, it was a challenge for me emotionally and spiritually, but by the power of the holy spirit, God accomplished what he set out to do in me.

And I thank him for that.

41:08 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. And I totally get the Satan attacks for us to align with Venice, just getting it off the ground. There were so many attacks, Greg, of trying to keep this from happening because he St knew I would be connecting with people like you and he did not want that to happen.

And because I think this is conversations, that impact, man, that help us grow perseverance is so important. And so I commend you it, I can only imagine the courage that it took to write a a powerful book like this and it. Just first, thank you that you get, you took that.

41:47 Gregg Grossman
Thank you.

Your words, a kind and encouraging, and I take them. So to my heart, I also will add to it. I thank the Lord as he thanked me, readers will thank me if they should purchase the book and read it. I thank the. Because it was the Lord who spoke through me and led me, this is a longitudinal book, and so I’ve got my mother always just say, Greg, I have a memory like an elephant. It’s square focus. He brings things to remembrance. The Lord has enabled me to have a good memory. And so I been able to. Capture experiences that were very dear to me and I’ll be able to do that in the written word, written words.

It’s like God has taken the written word and he wrote it down. And now he wants us to read that I’m thankful that I’ve been able to do that. So all the glory and praise go to my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I dedicated the book to him. He’s the very reason for me being here. I thank God. The father has be saying Hebrew.

I thank hush. Baraka sham means blessed the name I thank I sham. Another way of saying is out the NY ADL and AI. I thank God, the father, I thank the Lord for that. And so he is the very reason I’m here. He has given me the ability and the opportunity to speak to a wounded humanity, two wounded men who or a yearning for hope, inspiration or encouragement, hope and inspiration.

With God’s word and with a honest, transparent testimony of someone who is not only I’ve lived through it, but I’ve survived it. And because I’ve lived in, survived through it, I want to give you some encouragement that you can as well.

43:32 Chris Grainger
I love it. Have Greg last two questions here and we’ll kinda have a little fun here.

Yeah. As as for our listeners to know you a little bit better. So what’s one fun fact about you that people would never

43:47 Gregg Grossman
guess one fun fact. I would always learn to laugh at myself. Let me give an example that I remember when I told you I was an outside sales and I was visiting a customer.

I went up to my car and I had some coffee with me. And I had my, my, my old Facebook had a couple with me and all of a sudden I’m getting ready to plant someone’s there pointing my cup of coffee in my book. We’re on the hood of the car.

And another thing may sound say to my mind, where’s my glasses. Where’s my, and they’re up here. Where’s my phone. It’s maybe it’s around my waist and around the way. So those are just little, you can get. So as we say, in Hebrew sugar, though, we get crazy that we lose sight, that our glasses are right where you put them.

We just don’t remember. We may have a senior moment, but it’s just a comically humorous thing that we need to laugh at ourselves. And because it’s just something that’s part of us and it’s all good.

44:50 Chris Grainger
That’s right. That’s right now. Last question for you, Greg what’s one thing that you want the lions out there to remember from today.

44:59 Gregg Grossman
Please remember that God loves you and that he has a plan for you. If things don’t feel good or things don’t look right, it’s understandable, but you hang in there, you hang in there and you. Just persevere. You just worked through the situation you’re in and God will do the rest. And the way you do that is by faith.

And it’s something you can’t see feel or touch, but it’s the faith that’s in your heart. You just believe in your heart and you just hang in there and focus on what you’re doing and get through. And God will take. You and get your disabled boat to the other side, to the shore safely. So hang in there, men, you will get there and God will ensure that he says that in his word.

And he’ll do that for you.

45:56 Chris Grainger
Amen to that. Amen, Greg, this has been an absolute blessing, my friend. And so it was an honor to meet you. Thank you for your book guys. Go check out the show notes. We’re going to sync everything up for Greg, so you can find ways to connect with. To get the book directly, highly encouraged.

This needs to be part of elaborate gas. So Greg, thank you so much for your time today, and God bless you, sir.

46:17 Gregg Grossman
Thank you so much for having me on the show and God bless you too, Chris.

46:24 Chris Grainger
All right, guys, that was a powerful conversation with Greg Grossman. Now I’ll tell you what perseverance we all need it. We all need to be re to be reminded of the things that Greg talked about and we’ve gotta check our hearts. Guys, gotta check our hearts because as I think. The defroster date that Greg talked about, that meant a lot that really pricked me.

And I pray that it serves you wills as you move forward throughout your day. So guys, this week out the question a week, what I want you thinking about is what’s his perseverance look like in your life, not someone else’s, but in your life. So guys, if this conversation served, you.

If you needed this type of a Kirschman and you found it that, that it was uplifting. Share it with someone. Please take that minute to send a text message, send an email, maybe give a phone call, go old school on them. Actually call them shared out there with somebody. I encourage you to go to the line with bandanas, check out our Bible study.

We wrote that it’s out there. It’s free. Get it. I want you to consume it because I want to help you grow. I want to help you to tap in it’s to be the leader, to predestined, to be joined a lion’s den. That’s free as well. You just go on the website, check that out, join your lion’s den. We don’t send a bunch of spam out.

It’s usually one email a week. We’ll send a newsletter, but it’s encouraging stuff that we send out to try to help you in your walk. Give us a rating, write a review. Those things matter. Those are little actions you can take to support, align with them. So guys, I pray that this CA this conversation helps you, that impact you, that helps you with your walk that go out persevere. And I leash the lion within.