00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the lion within us, a podcast, serving Christian Inn who are hungry to be the leaders they’re predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys, for your meet episode this week, I’m so excited to have you here before we dig into it. Let’s look at our scripture. Okay.

Matthew seven, seven through eight. Ask and will be given to you, seek and you will find knock and the door will be open to you for everyone who asks, receives the one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks the door will be opened. Guys. I unpack that scripture big time and our spiritual kickoff this week, and we do the spiritual kickoffs to serve you to help you get your week going.

So if you missed it, go check it out. I really dug deep into this scripture. I gave you some ideas and I even went through the gospel guys. If there’s an opportunity for you to hear to gospel, go check it out. It’s back there on the, the previous episode. And guys, I think this, this, these SKUs are really important.

Help us get our weeks going to give us that encouragement we need because the battle we face is real. So we’re gonna be talking about performance driven giving. So this week we have David Hancock and I’m gonna tell you what guys, this is a phenomenal guest. He’s a wall street journal USA USA today bestselling author.

He’s a founder of Morgan, James publishing. They NASDAQ actually cite him as one of the world’s most prestigious business leaders. He is a reporter to be, uh, the future of publishing guys. He’s a big time publisher as a founder. He was, he was selected for fast company magazines, fast 50 for his leadership, creative thinking, significant accomplishments and impact on industry over the last 20 years.

But one thing you’re gonna pick up from David. This is. He just has a heart forgiving guys. His stories are unbelievable. He’s just a great, just a great person. Just a great man. A great strong believer. He’s gonna really unpack this. We’re not gonna be talking about an hour of titling. I promise you that guys, we could really dig into a lot of stuff.

So I pray you take some notes, just open your mind, be, be thinking about how you can take this performance driven mindset. And apply it to your life. So I’m not gonna hold you back any longer. Guys. Enjoy this conversation with David Hancock,

double check something. All right, cool. We’re good to. All right, David Hancock. Welcome to the line within us. How you doing today? My

02:26 David Hancock
friend, I’m doing absolutely incredible. And man, I tell you what, what a privilege it is to be on this show. I’ve heard and seen some amazing guests. I’m like, count me in I’m honored.

02:37 Chris Grainger
Or bro brother, Don’s all our, and it’s, it’s, it’s pretty cool. When I think back through the guests and the people like you, that God has opened up, I just can’t believe it. So maybe for our listeners, before we start digging into our meet, give ’em a little bit about your story, your, your background, your. I read a Bayou, but that’s just me reading words.

So like tell them who you really

02:56 David Hancock
are, man. well, back in 1900. No, I won’t go that far. There you go. There you go. But I’ll tell you I’ve been blessed, but you know, God’s got a, a plan and sometimes a sense of humor. Well, all the times, um, it took me a while to find this home as a publisher. You know, I was a banker back in the nineties, fat, dumb, and happy.

Never imagined doing anything else, but, um, I was doing well, but my bosses were like, Hey, you’ve. Teach other people to do what you’re doing. And I’m like, I really don’t know what I’m doing. So I went down a path to study anything and everything around sales or marketing or industry specific stuff, or other industries to try to figure out, you know, what is it that I’m doing?

And, and what could I teach and learn myself or whatever. And I went down an amazing path, met some amazing people from Tom Hawk. Hopkins to Zig Ziegler to, uh, Todd Duncan, bill background, you name ’em in the nineties. I bought their stuff. I went to their seminar and I implemented their courses. You know, I was the, yeah, I’m, you know, I was hungry for that stuff, but it wasn’t until I discovered a book called gorilla marketing that ended up changing my life and in gorilla marketing.

And I ended up becoming friends with the author, J rod Levinson, and I actually ended up becoming best friends. But in his book I realized I was a girl and didn’t know it. I was leveraging my time, my energy and my imagination more than the bank account to get the customers in relationships that I needed.

Now, we were spending an enormous money in marketing and advertisement, but I quickly realized after really deep diving into gorilla marketing, that, that wasn’t where my business was coming from. So I was able reduce the amount of money that I was spending on ads and increase the things that were working.

Relationships engaging things that work today still. Yeah. And, um, in that process of discovering Rilla marketing, I just, I ended up getting a relationship as I alluded to with Jay and Jay coached me into writing my first book. And it was amazing. All the things he promised me that would happen from a, from an entrepreneur, even though I was a w two employee, I, I had to treat my.

100% commissioned job as if I were the entrepreneur behind it. Cuz otherwise I wouldn’t make any money, but even as, uh, as my job and writing a book and getting it published, put me, you know, at a higher level, higher plane level than everybody else. Right. You know, so people would come outta the woodwork.

So talk to me, I was able to raise all my fees without taking advantage of anybody. Of course, uh, people didn’t negotiate with me anymore. And media started to call me. So I really realized the power of the. But I realized that the lack of relationship I had with my publisher was, was troubling. So long story short, three books, traditionally, two of them co-authored with J Levison in the Girlilla marketing series.

Still struggle with the relationship with the publisher and even self-publishing handful of books. After that, I realized that there was a gap. For entrepreneurs in publishing, you know, I wanted the credibility, the distribution, the opportunity of a typical traditional house, but really enjoyed the flexibility in creative control and involvement when I self-published, but nobody cared.

So got together with Jay, worked on an outline for an entrepreneurial type of publishing house that could serve others first, uh, and help them realize their goals around the power of the book and just grew it from there and, uh, gracious. That was 20 years. So that was a long answer to a very short question, but I have became, I have become a passionate entrepreneur, uh, to help other people like me to leverage the power of their book and, and reach a good audience to educate, inspire, educate, and maybe even entertain the world, but take full advantage of being the authority behind the book so they can reach more.

06:19 Chris Grainger
Man, that is so incredible. And, and you’re doing that. So you’re located, was it Virginia that you’re located as well?

06:25 David Hancock
I live in Southeastern Virginia. Yep. And this is where we started, but, uh, by 2005, I realized that nobody cared about being published by a Virginia publisher that we were doing well when you really should be published by New York house.

So we got a step out in faith. Uh, so we, uh, got authority to operate in New York, got an office in new. And everything doubled it was lastly really, but it worked so we are a New York house. Uh, but our biggest office is in Virginia where I’m at now. We’re all still working from home. I’m working from home right now because of, you know, COVID but we just haven’t decided to go back in, but we will forever be a New York house for that.

Very reason.

07:01 Chris Grainger
no kidding.

07:01 David Hancock
Whatever. That’s funny. I stayed here in Virginia with the kids cuz little Morgan and James of Morgan, James publishing were little and I don’t wanna take them to the city. I like where we’re at. right. Yeah.

07:12 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. And I think I even, I went to school when your neck of was there old dominion in Norfolk.

So, uh, very familiar with that area of, of Virginia and, and a lot of fun stuff to, to do for families

07:22 David Hancock
down there for sure. Oh yeah. And, and actually ODU is where James is right now. He’s 23. He’s doing a double major in computer science and electrical engineering. He is way smarter than me. wow. Okay.

07:34 Chris Grainger
Well, I did the, I did the electrical route, so, uh, we may.

Of course that was 20 years ago. So we probably don’t have any of the same teachers, but actually be different. It’s a great, great program. So hats off to him. I, I, I didn’t do the double major. He must just like torture or something, but

07:48 David Hancock
he likes math and torture. Absolutely. well, we’ll be praying

07:53 Chris Grainger
the best for him for sure, man.

So, you know, I, I was, we, we went through the scripture and kind of set this up for the guys and we, and, and they know we’re gonna be talking about giving today and your book performance, you know, performance driven. I’m just curious why focus on a topic like this? I mean, this is, you spent a lot of time.

That’s right here. It is. There it is guys for watching on YouTube. He just pulled it up. But why, why spend so much focus on the topic of giving?

08:19 David Hancock
You know, that’s a great question and it wasn’t necessarily planned that way when Bobby Kipper and I released. Performance driven thinking, which was the first in the series.

It hit the wall street journal. Mm-hmm best seller list. You know, we had a plan for books around the whole concept of performance entrepreneurs, cuz with performance, you know, you either perform well or you perform poorly, there’s no option. So every day you make a decision. Um, and we had lots of, we have, we still have lots of plans for other books and other things around the performance mindset, but I lovingly kind of blame Dan Miller.

And uh, I know he’s, he’s been on your show in the past, but. Dan. And I were in a group of people in, in Nashville, you know, one day. And he asked me about my giving strategy cause, uh, from a publishing perspective, uh, I’ve always obviously been a, a, a believer, uh, a fan of tithing had an interesting story about what got us committed to tithing.

You know, as perfectly as possible, but I’ve always been a fan of giving back cuz I’ve seen the action that happens from it, you know, post personally. So when we launched Morgan, James, I, I had a true burning commitment to think. I, I think we should give back from a corporate perspective too. I know that giving, uh, is a big part of guerrilla marketing giving is one of the 200.

You know, Girlilla marketing weapons that are out there. And the way that we leveraged it with, with our business was I chose habitat for humanity and it meant something to me. It didn’t necessarily need to mean something to the publishing world, but big fan of home ownership, big fan of community. I understand the power of trying to keep that family together.

And as a builder, I was a builder. And since I was a banker, then I was a builder before then. So I was close to the home ownership space. Right. I bought my first house when I, I was blessed to be able to buy my first house when I was 20. Um, so I wanted to give back to habitat cuz they give a hand up, not a handout to people.

They’re all about the same things, uh, community, um, relationships and family units and trying to keep the family together. Really amazing stuff. So anyhow, Dan, you know, has heard that story many, many times, so he just kind of asked me. On the spot. And for whatever reason, the holy spirit just led the conversation.

I just got real, real deep and I’m giving because of this I’m giving, because I feel like from a tithing perspective, I’ve just rattled off. I just started just rattling off things of why giving is important to me and why I think it should be important to anybody that could hear it. Not only from the biblical mandate that we should be giving, but also from a business perspective, we had so many doors open up because of our corporate giving.

It was amazing. I’m happy to share any of those too, but it just. It allowed me to go, what probably he intended to be a five minute answer. We talked for 40 minutes or I talked for 40 minutes and then we all talked for probably another hour after that or some, something like that. So I went back to the hotel that night and I just started to write down, man.

I was something good. Hope I can remember all this stuff. And it just, it led to this book to share the power of, of the generosity in your life, both in business and in personal. And of course, a big angle on starting at home with the.

11:11 Chris Grainger
Yeah. And I’d love to know more. You mentioned you had a couple of stories around tithing and to corporate giving.

I. This is your platform brother, share with what you want, because I think that’s inspiration that guys need to hear. Yeah.

11:22 David Hancock
So happy to. So from a personal perspective, my bride and I have always been believers in tithing. Uh, but life isn’t always easy. In our early days of marriage, we had challenges as, as everybody does and we tithe as best we could, but at times we couldn’t tie them.

We didn’t tie them. We weren’t 100. On it, like we should mm-hmm, , I’ve seen the power of tithing in my family. I understood it. But when it came down to, you know, are we gonna be able to put food on the table? Or am I gonna give to the church this week? I often made the wrong decision, but we were in church, um, you know, one day, uh, and the topic of time to start tithing came up and, and, you know, cause that’s.

That’s what people think that talk about every week, but which isn’t of course, but, uh, yeah, usually once or twice a year. Yeah. Right, exactly. But if you don’t go very often, you usually show up on those two days, right? oh, those two son. That’s right. That’s right. Uh, well, so the, the pastor, uh, still our, our current pastor was really.

I think he was obviously divinely led, but he gave a message that just pierced us both. He challenged us versus just telling us that we should be tithing and why, and all the blessings he challenged us. He said, you know, uh, we were in, we were in, we were not only tithing, of course we’re being compelled to tithe like we should.

But we were also in a building fund project, which many churches go through once or twice in, in their, their lives. History. So we were also in that. So it was not only a conversation about tithing and a conversation about giving above and beyond was really good, but he challenged us. He said, if, if you give 10%, like you’re supposed to for 90 days and you don’t get above and beyond back, I will refund your ties 100%.

And I’m like, wow. I mean, I’ve always believed it, but it’s. Wow. I know that’s true, but the audacity of this guy, so I, we committed that we were gonna do it even in the uncomfortable times. Sure enough. It was weeks before I got back from unexpected money. More than I had tithes in that entire time. So my tithe, if I added up the whole nine 90 days or, or three, or, uh, what do I say?

Uh, three months. Yeah. Mm-hmm I actually earned more than that, you know, before the first few weeks it was just amazing. I mean, I probably screwing up that story, but that’s. That was a reality. So then from then on out, man, we have been not, not tithing to expect tithing, to be obedient, but know the power of God, always providing as long as we’re faithful.

Right? And then from a business perspective, we were doing the same thing we were giving back. Now we, we do let people know that we give back, but it’s not all about us. It’s not about the notoriety. We might be able to get from giving back, but I do let people know, you know, that we partner with. So in our early days in the publishing house, um, we were hearing back from our sales reps that bookstores, you know, across the country and, and mul, this came back multiple times, bookstores across the country were giving an unknown publisher at that time to, and they had largely unknown authors.

Now we were blessed with some significant players in the early days, of course, and still today, but largely our authors are up and coming, but they were giving us a chance in their bookstore because they saw us building houses down the street from their store. Now you and I both know that Morgan James wasn’t swinging hammers down the street from their stores, but we were supporting the organization.

That was right. They gave us a chance and sure enough, it just, you know, that, that wave of, of us giving back that conversation about us caring about others, which was very natural for, for our staff. We’re all, we all believed the same thing. Um, in 2008, we got a call like on a Wednesday from NASDAQ and they said, I hear you do this.

We love this. And this week is all about giving. Hey, can you come ring the opening bell for us on Friday? and I’m like,

15:03 Chris Grainger
yes .

15:05 David Hancock
So we actually got a chance to ring the opening bell in 2008. It was December 17th, 2008, I believe. And, uh, all because of our, our philanthropy mindset. Now we hadn’t given millions of dollars to habitat at that point, but we were giving regularly and the word was out that we were giving and it was unusual.

In publishing and really unusual in business, most, most business that give, give to get something we give just to bless. Now we end up getting a lot, but it wasn’t the reason why we get, but, um, yeah, so that was like amazing. And so we still do it today.

15:37 Chris Grainger
Well, I mean two phenomenal stories and what keeps coming to mind for me when you were going through it is just your diligent stewardship.

And I try to work with guys a lot about what a steward is and being the manager of what God provides versus, you know, thinking that it’s hours. But you’ve you just right there at two examples, from a personal standpoint, and from a, from a professional standpoint, when you’re a good steward of the provisions that he provides, the blessings that can come, you know, and it’s not expected you do it out the right heart, but the blessings do come.

Once you prove to, to God that, that you, that you can handle that you can manage it. It’s really phenomenal. The things that he starts to

16:13 David Hancock
move. Yeah. Amen. But giving goes way beyond just the, the power of giving as we’re being asked to of God, the real blessings start coming when you give above and beyond, and it doesn’t have to be money, it could be of your time, right.

It could be of your talent. It could be of serving. It could be, could certainly be of money in certain areas, but, uh, you know, take it one step further and open up that generosity to beyond just our obligation to tithe and give to others. Oh my gosh. And you start seeing some of the blessings rolling above and beyond.

As, as Dan always says the, the couple continue to run us over , which is a biblical statement, but you know what I mean?

16:50 Chris Grainger
amen brother. Amen. Hey, let’s take a quick break.

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Now, now you mentioned Dan a few times and I’m, I’m curious here, cuz I mean, Dan’s a great guy. I’m part of his 48 days community. I’m learning from Dan and, and recorded with him. But in your book, Dan talked about the receiving in and the struggle that so many people have with that receiving. So I, I just was gonna give you opportunity, just dig into that for, because I know there are a lot of guys out there that struggle with.

Receiving the

18:04 David Hancock
gifts. Yeah. It can be hard to be a receiver, especially if you’re a giver. Um, and it’s, it’s something that we all can struggle with at certain times we feel like maybe we don’t deserve it or somebody else is, is, is in more need. Um, it can just be uncomfortable and that’s just a part of human nature.

So one of the, one of the easiest things that I tell people, if you struggle in giving is to just take a step and breathe for just a moment and realize. If you resist being a receiver, you end up, um, allowing the blessing of the giver to happen. You know, cuz there is a huge blessing in those of us that give, but we have to be able to, to give to somebody and that somebody needs to receive it.

So we have to look at that mindset from the other side of the table, you know, to it’s just as a, just as good of a opportunity to be received upon it as it is to give. But when you’re looking at it from a, from a, a performance mindset, If I continue to resist, you know, the giving, if I constantly try to pay for dinner, if I’m always trying to step up above somebody else, you know, pride can certainly come in.

But also each time I do that, I may be robbing somebody else of, of the gift that they’re giving mm-hmm . So it it’s a, it’s a challenge to, to help, uh, people understand that that receiving is just as much of a blessing as the giving side, but it’s just being aware of, uh, of how that, uh, can, it can bless you by helping somebody else get.

19:20 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Well, I, I mean, I love how you break that down and. I think that’s an area that we all need to consider as, as we move forward. And you, you, you break it down. You, you talk about the roots of giving and the branching out and varying the fruit, but there was something, and it was, I believe it was in the second chapter.

I got, I had the book right here where you talked about the spiritual effects. Oh, the spiritual perspectives of giving rather. And you dug into second Corinthians and it was like 10 things that, that, that really principles that opened up my eyes of giving ha I. You know, if this is this being a Christian men’s podcast.

Would you mind going through maybe just a couple of those or, or, or if you wanna go through ’em all. I just thought these were really cool. And I think it, it, it opened my eyes greatly and, and I think it would be a blessing to the listeners out there to, uh, to hear some of these principles because you hit it, you hit it right on the head here,

20:13 David Hancock
David

Yeah. Wonderful. I’m happy to, I break out some of my notes here, but you know, the, the fun part about, um, this chapter by the way, is Satan tried to steal some of my joy when I released this book. Why is that? How okay. How you gotta tell us more? Okay. So, you know, I have been writing in the business world since the nineties.

I started writing in the writing and reference world with gorilla marketing, for writers, the entrepreneur author, and things like that around the, the, the, um, you know, the, the book publishing world and with performance driven thinking and, and performance driven giving I’m writing back into the business space.

But this is a business book. And then in chapter two, I’d deep dive into the spiritual aspects of giving. And, uh, and we certainly talk about the roots of giving the biblical aspects and the, the power of tithing and going above and. But, um, I put it in chapter two on purpose, you know, I’m like, I wanna set the stage.

I wanna set the foundation for why I give so that I can help others understand why they should give. And then we go into the business side and the generosity side dealing with non givers and things like that. But as soon as the book, I mean, literally pub date comes and I’m listening to the audio again.

um, cause I’m constantly trying to continue to remember what I say. Uh, but I listen to the audio again and I’m really enjoying it. And then all of a sudden it rolls in chapter. And then we start talking about the spiritual side of, of giving. And I get this feeling like, oh my gosh, I’ve made a mistake. I’m preaching to ’em in chapter two, I’m gonna lose so many people.

They’re gonna walk away from the book because you know, I’m, it’s marketed as a, as a business book. Mm-hmm and I just get this feeling like I’ve really just messed up and then no, one’s gonna listen to this stuff. I have failed in my mission to try to teach giving by talking about God too soon. and I, that I, I struggle with that for short, wow.

Longer than I should have. But then I had this piece, I finally had this piece that said, you. It’s in the right place and it is who I am. And God led me to have this realization that that’s who I am. If I talk to you on the street and we’re talking about giving, oh, one of the first things I’m gonna say is, this is why, so why not do it book?

I mean, so I got over it. And then, oh my gosh, what a blessing book sales have come in. Every feedback I’ve, got’s been amazing. And the invites I’m getting like, and I’m grateful to be here, but the invites I’m getting from, from podcasts, like yours is just, they constantly come and I’m just so blessed and no ones yet said, why did you preach to be in chapter two?

And they all haven’t been faith based podcast, either. The fact, the majority of them have been secular podcasts, so right. He tried to steal the joy. You gotta, that’s not gonna happen. so, yeah. I’m glad you didn’t let it happen. I know. So I’m happy to kinda share a little bit, even if we just kinda highlight, touch some of the absolutely and principles of giving, um, the most complete teaching on giving.

Of course we have in the Bible is the second Corinthians chapters, eight through nine. And those two chapters, the apostle Paul lays out an example of how Christ followers should. One of those areas of course, is in giving. One of course is giving is only made possible by God’s grace. Mm-hmm literally means that we have the power to give only because the Lord’s given to us, we are able to give because he has given to us.

Right? So understanding that everything that we have is because of our relationship with the Lord and what he’s given to us, the talents and tasks that he’s given. Um, regardless of how we think we earned our, our, uh, stature, our revenue or anything in life is only by the grace of God that we have it’s.

And sometimes that’s, it’s hard to understand cuz a lot of times we entrepreneurs take pride in building something from scratch, but that scratch was handed to us by the Lord. right. That’s right. Number two is giving draws out the best in us. Uh, for instance, uh, second Corinthians is eight two. It says. In a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part.

So regardless of the situation that you’re in, if you can still give, you can receive above and beyond, um, test those difficult situations. Um, in my, in my history, you know, growing up, um, struggling in those early years, I mean, I got married when I was 20 years old. I had a back injury when I was 21. No.

Wait, say I got married at 20, bought a house at 20, got married as 21, had a back injury in 21. I spent two years recovering from a back industry back injury. We had nothing at that point. We had a house in debt, you know, but as we continued to give God continued to give to us little here, little there, big here, big there, but it was only be only would’ve really, really realize that that when we were, we thought we were on the downside that we were being, uh, affected.

Life in general, us giving helped us have the peace to get through it and then overcome in the, in the future. So we go more in details about that. Of course. Um, also number three is a good one is giving is a privilege. Uh, the believers did not reluctantly give they in the Bible. They literally begged Paul for the opportunity to participate.

They viewed it as a favor Paul was doing for them. So if you look at giving as an opportunity and a privilege to do so, it opens up the mindset of being able to, to serve more people. Receive the blessing forgiving, but then you start looking for opportunities to give you start creating opportunities to give, uh, or mm-hmm , uh, again, it doesn’t have to be money.

So for instance, I serve on several boards. It’s a way that I can kind of give back to topics that are important to me. Doesn’t cost me anything, but I seek out opportunities to give on that side and I get rewarded so well sometimes financially sometimes just by the blessing of the connections, but, you know, seeking out and understanding that giving is a privilege, uh, will definitely open up those ideas to think, well, how else can I give?

You know, it it’s a, it it’s an honor, uh, God’s given us talent and, um, and maybe even, uh, wealth to be able to use, to do and to bless others as. That’s right. Um, this is also one of my favorite ones. Number four, which is all about giving is just as important as knowledge. So, as I mentioned earlier in the talk about me just being on this quest to learn what I could about sales and marketing and business and how I could grow my, my business, but also help others do the same.

Um, I realized that knowledge was powerful. Everything that I was learning, whether it Wasilla, marketing, other stuff, you know, that really enabled my day to go. Better easier, more profitable, uh, less problems, less stress. Yeah. Affected. I write about that in a book called the entrepreneur author about the power of a business when you’re an author, but the stresses that can kind of tie in being a solo entrepreneur with a book.

Um, but I realize as I give. And also learning from second cor is eight, seven. That giving, um, is more, I think, more powerful in some cases than the actual knowledge, because look at the power of somebody who can give a, a little bit that can change so much. Um, I can donate a little bit of time. I can donate a little bit of money to an organization that could take it so much further because of little bits from all of us.

So it, it ends up bringing more power, more knowledge, more opportunity others by. Little privilege I have of giving. So in my, my thinking, the, the gift of giving, uh, is more, more important than knowledge. If, if I had to go back, I would’ve started given, you know, more abundantly in those early days and, and follow the knowledge stuff later, the way it works.

So well. Right. uh, number five is giving is proof of your love for others. Now, I don’t know how easy it is for some people to give without thinking, how is this going to affect somebody? Certainly there are people that give completely selfishly. They give only to receive the notoriety or give only to receive a tax deduction.

But if you take that out, um, or do it long enough, you’ll start realizing that you’re having an impact and the lives that you’re reaching can have an impact on. So it enables you to show your love, but also helps you develop more love for that, that, that method that you’re giving. So I have actually seen cold-hearted business people give and give and give and give.

But when you have a chance to kind of talk to them about the impact they’re having, they’re having a little bit of humility comes in a little bit of, you know, grace starts to show up and they start realizing I do love what I’m doing. I’m I’m not just giving for this. And it’s just an amazing transformation that you can see in people if they do it long.

Amen. Um, number six is giving should be voluntary without expecting anything in return. So along those same lines, you know, certainly we do get some tax benefits for giving. Um, um, some people struggle with giving, um, you know, Too much to a, a waitress or a waitress that may have not have given the best, you know, service, but I’m like, mm-hmm, give regardless of the service because they could need it.

They may need it. Give even if, you know, you’ll never get it back, give no matter what happens, give even if the tax deduction isn’t there because the blessing will still arrive. So if you look at it from that mindset, just give, um, and if you expect things to come back in return, um, Your heart’s not in the right place and you may not get the blessing that you really could be getting.

Um, mm-hmm or any blessing at all, or delay, like I said, maybe delayed blessing, uh, but, uh, give without expecting, you know, anything in return would definitely be the biggest things. Now, now you and I both know that the Bible says that if we give, we will receive, but that’s not why we should give. That’s just a, a blessing, an abundance of, because of being obedient to give amen.

Let’s see, we don’t have to go through all of ’em, but I’m kind of enjoying this. So number seven is we are, Hey, I’m enjoying it.

29:21 Chris Grainger
I’m enjoying the ride. So, I mean, just, just keep rolling brother. I know. Right.

29:24 David Hancock
So maybe we’ll we’ll stop. Um, um,

29:28 Chris Grainger
I dunno, you’re at what number?

29:29 David Hancock
Uh, eight number eight. So number seven, number seven.

So we are blessed in accordance with our giving. So this, this might be a great place to stop. So how you might think, well, how can I be blessed in the accordance that I give, but I can only give a little bit well, if a little bit mm-hmm is a lot to you. God will bless you a lot to him. and that’s probably the simplest way to say it.

Um, so if you have, have a lot, you need to give a lot, if you have a little give what you can, but it can become a lot. Uh, it could be more effective. In second ESS nine sixth. Um, Paul says, the point of is this, whoever sews sparingly will also reap sparingly mm-hmm and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully for.

So for those, some of those that may not understand for that philosophy, if you’re just putting enough seed on the top of the, the mound that you’ve just plowed, you’re gonna get, this is a little bit of crop, but if. Amply just throw down all the seed in the world. Some sure some’s gonna get eaten. Some’s gonna get scorched by sign, but if you amply throw down those seed, uh, and so in abundance, you will get an abundant crop every time.

Yeah. So

30:37 Chris Grainger
that’s a good let’s. Well, I tell you what though, David, the, the last one is so impactful to me and the listeners. I feel like we’re gonna leave them hanging. So let’s go, let’s go through the last three, cuz I mean, particularly that, that, that last. I think is something that men need to hear more and, and, but, you know, eight’s also great.

And nine, so would you mind just giving a brief, I mean, I, I hate to put you on the spot, but this is good

31:00 David Hancock
stuff. I am honored to hear somebody say that this is good stuff. So, but again, this is straight outta the scripture, so I can’t take full credit for this. This is me pulling out. Absolutely highlighting it for you guys.

Uh, but thank you. so number eight, our giving should. Joyful. This is a great time. Amen. I know. Right. And when you, when you know, you’re gonna give, receive an abundance because you’re giving it certainly makes it easier to give. So understanding God will bless us for giving. Certainly helps make it a little bit more of a joyful process.

But if you’re very intentional, this is what I’m talking about here in number eight. So this is a great time to examine whether you feel joy, whether you give, if you do not. The reason is probably because you feel something is being taken away from you when that’s not the case at all. Mm-hmm , um, you may feel like something is now lacking in your life because you gave, but when you look at the principles that we’ve discussed so far, you know, that God is a source of all of our blessings.

He literally owns everything. We talked about that earlier, too, so we don’t need to worry about our needs not being supplied. We need to worry about being obedient in giving and giving an abundance. Even if that abundance is, you know, as we talked earlier, a smaller amount compared to your revenue, compared to someone else’s revenue give right, then you will get the blessing because, um, if you do it with a joyful heart, you’ll be rewarded with the joyful heart and right.

So that, that one’s good too. Um, number nine, um, we are channels of God’s blessing. So people often get worried about when you’re talking about. Channeling something I’m not talking about channeling anything, but the blessing that God said, he’s giving us to be able to reach other. So the more we give, the more we can give he who supplies, seed to the sower and bred for food will supply and multiply your seed for sewing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

You will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will provide or produce Thanksgiving to God. That’s another great one. So the more you, the more you give, the more you have the ability to give is the way I’m reading that one.

32:57 Chris Grainger
Amen. And then, Hey, let’s take a quick break and then we’ll finish up this number 10.

Cause I want these guys to hang on for this one. Oh yeah.

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All right, David. So you’ve went through the first nine. What’s number

33:55 David Hancock
10 here. All right. You’re gonna love this. Well, obviously you already do. And thank you for that. Number 10 is simply our giving. Honors God. Uh, Paul concludes this extraordinary passage of scripture by reminding us that giving is ultimately an act of worship.

God supplies, the seeds he brings the harvest and the end result is what we bring honor to him. Since we get to participate in serving others, serving is not a burden should not be it’s. It’s a privilege. It’s an. No matter whether you’re an entrepreneur, a worker in a factory or the president of a billion dollar company, you are always serving something or someone.

If you are a person of faith, you are ultimately serving God in the movie. Gladiator Russell Crowe plays Maximus a general in the roaming army. The opening scene shows Maximus, preparing his troops for battle against the, the dramatic tribes. And just before the battle, commences Maximus delivers a rousing speech to the troops reminding.

What we do in life echoes in eternity. Oh my gosh. That’s a powerful statement. I got chills. Hmm. The, this truth that applies to our, this truth also applies to our giving as well. If we can put out the correct lenses and see our giving from God’s point of view, this new perspective will help us see that our giving does indeed echo into the eternity brother.

35:20 Chris Grainger
I mean, guys, do you realize what he just gave us right here? I mean, it is again, straight from scripture, but David, you drilled it. I mean that, and that 10th point is I think we need to just make sure we understand it, that the, the honoring God worshiping God and it comes through that heart of giving.

Amen, man, brother. Well, I am curious from you guys out there that are listening. They have, they, they there’s obstacles that keep ’em from giving and, and, and sometimes I refer to it, David. You know, think of a closed fist. Right? We got that closed fist. We got, and it’s our, our money that’s in it. And, and we, we got our, our hand wrapped around.

It’s so tight. Well, nothing can come in or out, nothing can flow, but if we actually open that hand up that fist up, you know, then the blessings, yeah. It can go out, but it also can come in. And, and so I made this connection with a group of guys. I was, I was coaching the, the other night of just, Hey, think through that.

When you think about tithing and giving, having that open Palm versus a closed. Maybe what obstacles do you see from guys when it comes to the, just mentally of giving? You know, what

36:24 David Hancock
else is out there? Some of it is the, um, the mindset of, of, um, feeling that they they’re giving just enough to get by with what the Lord’s asking us for, to do, to do, and not realizing the abundance of giving above and beyond.

Um, some of it is, um, understanding that it doesn’t necessarily have to be money. I think I mentioned that a moment ago, so a, a great downtown. Yeah. So a great way to start testing. Um, Your ability to give is give in what you have. Let’s say you don’t have any, or you think you don’t have any cash. God will still bless you by giving some of your time and talent.

As we mentioned, serve on a board, you know, help, uh, others, you know, spend a few minutes, um, with the family, uh, put your phone down at the dinner time. All those things can help release that. Gr that grasp on everything you’re trying to control and opening it up to things that you can receive the blessing of that time with your family, the blessing of serving others on that board.

And then eventually you’ll start to be more and more willing to give, not only of your time and your talent, but. Above and beyond in the cash that the Lord will be bringing to you to help fulfill that. Whether an entrepreneur, like I said, or, or a business person or a school teacher, it doesn’t matter.

You’ve got, you’ve got gifts to, to give. And again, the less you hold tight to your time and talent and money, the more that God can put in there. Uh, so I think that’s at least the start of a path. Amen. Yeah.

37:42 Chris Grainger
I’m also thinking too, you know, I coach guys a lot around. Budgeting, you know, I had the, again, got the engineering background, so I’m pretty big on processes and things like that, but I’m also pretty big on budgets.

And I, so many times I’ve seen guys and well, not just guys, families in general, they, they put the giving at the bottom. So, you know, I’m, I gotta pay my expenses, my bills, all this stuff. And if we have anything left over, then we’ll give that. And I challenge them. Yeah, flip it, you know, giving’s gotta be at the top.

And then, then you manage everything else. According to. I’m just curious on your take.

38:14 David Hancock
All right. So my take comes with a little bit of a balance from my banking background. Okay. I know full well that if you’re, if you’re struggling to make ends meet and you put giving on the bottom after you pay all the other bills, you have, you know, there’s a, there’s a high probability that giving may not happen.

It may not happen in the, in the, in the amount it should or may not happen in the way that you wish you could. But you’re exactly right. If you flip it and put giving first and put it in the budget on the top. So first thing you do every month, in fact, in our, in our family, it is in the budget. It comes out every single week, uh, automatically, you know, before any other bills get paid.

And amazingly, even though the numbers don’t seem to add up when you first look at, if you give first. This bill gets paid. This bill gets paid, God, manage this bill, get it paid. God managed this bill to be, you know, forgiven or something like that. It always works. Mm-hmm and God says it will. But if you treat it like the first bill of the month that gets paid, all your other needs will be met.

If you do it the right heart, not expecting that to happen, knowing that it will happen. Mm-hmm is a fine line there, but God says he will give it to us. So, yeah, absolutely. Again, even if you’re a spreadsheet guy and you’re like, well, if I put that bill here, that’s not enough for the last three bills. Look at the spreadsheet again on day 27 and go, where did that money come from?

That’s right. And we know it came from God.

39:27 Chris Grainger
Now there may be a guy that’s sitting there struggling with where we’re at right now, David and they’re and they’re thinking, you know, I, I can’t do that. Do you have any advice on starting small or, or, or, or baby steps if you will, to get ’em headed in the right

39:39 David Hancock
direction, baby steps is to start small.

I think it really is a good way to start. Uh, instead of trying to tie once a month, try, try to tie the, uh, every time you get a paycheck, you know, whether that’s once a week or every time you do a, if you’re a service provider, every time you get, you know, paid for certain job, you know, take it off the top.

If you’re an entrepreneur, Why shouldn’t you charge more, you know, bump your fee up a little bit to accommodate. If you’re worried that you’re not being able to make your bills, you know, God’s given you the talent and the, and the skill and the relationships, and hopefully the, um, um, you know, the, um, the reputation to be able to do what you’re doing, bump your prices up a little bit, but give accordingly as well.

And you’ll start to see those things start to open up for you, but give small, it’s really hard to give at the end of the year. It’s really easy to give at the beginning of each week. And I

40:25 Chris Grainger
tell people too, man, just, just build, just build that, that, uh, that muscle memory in. And if you, if you put some percentages around it, maybe you’re not, you don’t wanna do 10%, you know, for some reason, you know, you, you feel like that that’s, that’s just not the right number.

Well, I suggest you read scripture, but then, but then once you go back and you figure out what, whatever that number is, if you make it a math problem, for me, it always makes it a little bit simpler too. Particularly if you’re, if you’re an entrepreneur or if you’re a type of service type work, Where, you know, maybe big, big commission checks come and go when those big sums come in.

If you have a, a divisive plan in place on how are you going to buy that money, it just makes the math so much easier. It takes the stress off you too. It just anxiety goes away. Okay. Here’s the percentage for giving and that’s just gonna go here. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Hey, awesome man. I’m I’m so, so excited.

So I’m curious too for, I, I do wanna touch this briefly on the branching out part. Cause I, I thought that was really interesting in your. I’m curious, what’s the hardest part that you’ve seen with, with people or companies in general, when it comes to branching out with the giving.

41:29 David Hancock
So there’s always a board, you know, at a company that says yay or nay or what’s in it for me.

Um, mm-hmm, , you have to kind of lead by example or help them understand the start small sometimes with, with a business organization. So if you’re an employee or, or you’re running, you know, you’re in charge of, you know, of the giving, um, you’ve gotta help them understand the impact that you’re having. You do have to kinda leverage the fact of educating people about the tax benefits, but quickly.

Overcoming, uh, some of those early objections with the, the business mindset. Uh, so for instance, one of the cool things about us being able to donate to habitat each year is we get tax credits totally unexpected. Mm-hmm , you know, they brought ’em to us, you know, after, after we started giving where they’re like, every dollar we give is a dollar off our taxes, it was like, hello, give I’d rather give to habitat than give to the governor.

I, I mean, I’m all about paying my fair share of taxes, but like I might as well. So that’s the benefit. So if you’ve got somebody in an organization that’s that’s, um, Poo went on the parade of giving start with that business mindset, but then continue that conversation about the impact and how things are coming back to you.

And even maybe compelled them to try it in their own life. Cuz no matter how much money you’re making, there’s always there’s seems to be always challenges and problems. just money. Doesn’t solve all their problems, you know, uh, and to start educating, encouraging them, you know, to see the bigger picture and to start testing it out for themselves and then realizing, Hey, we’re getting more than we’re receiving.

Let’s give more so we can receive more. Let’s give more so we can serve more. Let’s give more because other people are being blessed and now we’re able to see other people give because we’re able to give, so it can snowball from.

43:00 Chris Grainger
I love it. How do you caution those guys that they, they, some, some guys go through this conversation like this David and they, they, they build up this in their mind that the expectation of the receiving part that comes from giving, you know, and, and we definitely, we’re trying to make sure that we distinguish that we’re not talking prosperity gospel here.

So how do you clarify that up for guys who may be thinking that prosperity message? Cause that’s definitely not the message you’re delivering , but I’d love to give you a chance just to, just to clear

43:27 David Hancock
the air on. Yeah. So I, I think that the prosperity side of things is where people, you know, just try to leverage the fact that, you know, they will get what they give, but then you’re making point you’re taking the blessing and trying to give it to yourself.

You’re trying to control, you know, the, uh, the outcome of your giving. And if you try to control something, that’s, God’s, that’s in God’s hand. You’ll find out who’s in control really quick. You may not get the blessing that you should be deserving. You will absolutely get what God says. He’s gonna give you, but you’re not gonna get the above and beyond.

You’re not gonna get the additional relationship aspects. You’re not gonna get the true blessing that God’s for you. If you’re giving to the letter of the law or you’re giving, you know, just enough or if you’re doing it selfishly or publicly. Right. Um, it’s funny when you said the, the, the tithing of, of, you know, Of how much to give the percentage.

I’ve always been a gross guy, cuz I, you know, what, if I’m wrong, , I’d rather be in the right direction, you know, but you, but if you’re only doing to, to get, uh, or only doing, because you know that, um, you know, that that whole, you know, that you will get what you receive you’re missing out. I really think you’re leaving, you know, God’s true blessing on the table.

Right.

44:33 Chris Grainger
And I, and I’m glad you, that you talked about the gross, cause I mean, that’s, that’s a whole nother conversation, gross versus net. And look guys, I always tell guys that’s the holy spirit, whatever the Spirit’s telling you, you know, you pray over that. I don’t, I haven’t seen in a scripture where it says gross versus net.

I mean, there’s arguments both ways, but uh, just, just take it through the spirit and let them guide you. So, yep. And let’s take our last break and we’ll be right back.

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So this has been great. I’m curious though, before we, before we wrap up, you know, when we start thinking about giving and we start thinking about the impact it has on others, To me, one word kept coming to mind as I was reading your book is that was legacy and start thinking about the legacy that we’re gonna leave and the impact we’re gonna have.

So what do you think giving. What is that impact on our legacy?

46:08 David Hancock
So, um, in the publishing world, we say all, all the time that readers, beget readers, the more readers of a book, you get, the more books you’re gonna sell, the more impact you’re gonna have on lives. The more people are gonna be talking about the book, the more people are gonna be buying the book.

And it just rolls into that. That’s true. And we all seek it in publishing God’s. Similarity in just us giving is the more that we inspire giving the more that others are gonna give, even in our family. You know, I I’ve seen where I will be a generous, you know, tipper, I will be a generous giver and I don’t make a big todo of it, just that people around me can see, you know, that I’m I’m, I, I tend to be generous.

So my kids. Are generous. My kids are being accused by their friends of over tipping. My kids are catching the spirit of, of generosity in lives, even sometimes in their time, just as much as their, their, uh, their money as well. So I think breeding, uh, giving in the right, in the right light. Um, and. It certainly can start with a family.

It can certainly start with your coworkers. It can certainly start with your employees. It can start with your management above you all by seeing giving, giving breeds, giving, which breeds more giving from others as well. So it’s a it’s it’s reciprocal. The more you give, the more you inspire people to give.

47:29 Chris Grainger
Uh, you’re all over my friend. Well, we do the last part of the line within is Davis. So we, we talk about, uh, we, we, we, we call it feeding time. Okay. So this is quickfire rapid. I got some questions. I’m, I’m gonna fire at you just to let our listeners know a little bit more about you. This has been a great conversation on giving, but if you’re willing to play the game, we’ll jump in and, and

47:49 David Hancock
have some fun.

Oh, I love making it fool of myself. Let’s do it. All

47:52 Chris Grainger
right. All right. All right. It’s all good stuff. Now, some of the questions are a little bit deep, but that’s okay. Just, just whatever comes to. But right out the gate. I just wanna know. What’s your favorite thing about God, my

48:01 David Hancock
friend. Oh my gosh. His grace. I mean, you know, I have failed so many times.

I have let him down so many times and yet he keeps lifting me up and blessed me still. So his grace has gotta be my, my favorite thing.

48:14 Chris Grainger
Amen. What’s your least favorite thing about Satan? Oh, he’s

48:17 David Hancock
tricky. He, like, I talked about him trying to steal my joy on my pub date. You know, he knows exactly what buttons to push, to steal, you know, joy and opportunity from us.

So yeah. Gotta watch out for that.

48:32 Chris Grainger
Amen. What do you wish you would’ve learned about God sooner?

48:35 David Hancock
Wow. Yeah, I, I was blessed to be raised in a, in a Christian home. Um, I went to a Christian school. I, I married a believer, you know, we went to church regularly, so I felt like I’ve had God in my life the whole time, but you know, that relationship and understanding the gifts that we get by having that relationship and being, listen, listening to God.

Mm-hmm, listening to holy spirit. I wish I learned that whole lot here. I made poor decisions because I. I needed to make this decision for the, for the, for me or I wanted this versus is it the right thing to have right now? Maybe there’s a bigger blessing coming. Uh, so I learned that. I think that if I’d learned to listen more to that holy spirit in the early years, um, when I, I obviously we don’t need it, but, uh, in those early years before you really hone that talent, I think, uh, I would probably be in a much better place than I am am today.

And I’m so blessed today, but I, again, I made mistakes. Lots of ’em.

49:27 Chris Grainger
We all do. So, what are you currently struggling with right now?

49:31 David Hancock
Um, you’re oh, gracious. Um, that’s a good question. So, you know, COVID was really tough. A lot of business and I’m, I see a lot of my friends in the publishing space that just didn’t make it there.

Some really good companies that did not make it through the COVID fiasco, that some of us are still in, you know, um, you know, we had a big challenge just like everybody else, but, um, you know, God’s, grace was sufficient for us to pull through it, you know, maintain the relationships and get the revenue we needed to accommodate for all the bookstore closings, which cuz what happens when bookstores close, they return the books.

Our product will build a hundred percent returnable for life. So going through the humility of, of doing all the things, right, having thriving businesses, and then something happens completely outta control that just knocks your feet up from under you. And it’s very stressful. Um, so, you know, building back from that, realizing it’s in God’s hands, the difficult decisions you have to.

Those things are, are, are challenging. So what’s on my mind right now is just, you know, growing back from that, trying to help others, we were able to employ some people that came from houses that closed. We were able to take on some authors that, that were abandoned or orphaned by, by publishing house. So those are on my mind of how can I serve.

Such a crippled industry around the entrepreneurial side of, uh, of business where it might be an investment for us, but I think it’ll be a blessing for us in the future as well as them. So I’m last year, you know, it’s been all about, you know, surviving this, but also helping others survive this. So that’s where we’ve been.

And God’s been a big, big part of that. I love it. Absolutely.

51:06 Chris Grainger
So what did you spend too much time doing last year?

51:10 David Hancock
um, I don’t know about too much time. Um, gracious. Well, okay. So in, um, 2020, we didn’t get a chance to do a whole lot, cuz everything was closed, but 2021 things started to open up. So we spent an enormously.

Larger amount of time at the beach cottage than we, we did the previous year. So I can work from anywhere. And I worked a lot from the beach cottage last year. So maybe too much, uh, what with the offices still closed. Nobody really missed me, but you know, I did feel guilty. There you go. I feel guilty a little bit,

51:46 Chris Grainger
two more questions.

What, what’s the new habit that you’re gonna create this year?

51:50 David Hancock
Okay. So I’m gonna say it in faith cuz you know, sometimes. That don’t always happen. Yeah. But, uh, my new habit is I’m going to move more. Um, cuz I got outta the habit of, of uh, of doing some walking. I got outta the habit of doing a little bit of exercise and when we were locked in the houses and I wanna get back to it.

Yeah. So I, my, my new habit is gonna be getting back out there and moving around. Cause my health needs it, of course. But it’s also a good thing to do. I wanna be around for a long time for my kids for as long as God wants me here. amen

52:18 Chris Grainger
brother. Amen. Last question for you, David. What’s one thing that you hope the guys that are listening to this conversation today are gonna take away

52:25 David Hancock
and remember the power of generosity in their life can change their life to the positive.

So I encourage, everybody’s listening to me to just start looking for ways to give, even if, if small and understanding that it’s a privilege that God’s given us and there should be joy and there will be reward. So start something, start doing something different in your giving life, and you will be, you

52:46 Chris Grainger
will be blessed.

Amen, my friend. What, where do you want guys to go to connect with you to learn more, to buy the book? Just, just any, any links you’d like to share? We’ll make sure we sync everything up, but it just,

52:57 David Hancock
if you’d like to share with the listeners, that’d be great. I wondered, um, I’m the founder of Morgan James publishing.

So you can certainly find me online there. Um, I actually have a gift for everybody if they want. It’s also a great way to get connected to me. I’m honored to be able to, to give if you want it a copy of this book, gorilla mark. Excuse me. This isn’t Girlilla marking I’m so such gorilla, give you a copy of the book performance driven giving.

If you go to performance driven gift.com, that’s performance driven gift.com. You can download the, uh, the ebook to your favorite device and you can also. Um, get a copy of the recording as well, if you’re an audio person, uh, so take it, love it, enjoy it. You can get connected with me cause I will capture your name and your email address in the process because I want to maintain or develop a relationship with you.

Of course. Man. Well, thank

53:43 Chris Grainger
that is very generous view. So we we’ll make sure we sync that up into show notes for you guys. Definitely jump on it. This is a book you’re not gonna wanna put down. It is gonna be the book of the week. So spoil a little alert for our fun Friday listeners. Yes, this is the book of the week, but I’m telling you it is, it is amazing.

So we’ll have that link in there for a show notes as well. So, David, anything else you like to share with the, the listeners today on the line within us?

54:03 David Hancock
Uh, well, I appreciate the opportunity to share this with you guys. Um, thank you for that opportunity. Learn how giving can change your life, cuz it has changed my life over the years for sure.

Amen. My friend.

54:15 Chris Grainger
Well, thank you so much for sharing everything you’s spending on. Oh thank you.

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So guys, I told you, I told you that conversation was gonna be powerful. David had so much great insight right there. The, the 10 principles of giving unreal. I mean that, that’s just really good stuff. Biblically base it’s sound. It’s solid. It’s real his stories around personal tithing and giving the impact the way he addressed the that we’re not talking prosperity gospel and just hit that head on guys.

That’s what it’s all about. This may be an episode you wanna share with the pastor or something like that. Cause there are ideas here. In this conversation that could be shared from the pulpit and really make an impact. So guys, I pray, you enjoyed it. Remember the question I want you to think about this week?

Does giving cost you anything? Does it cost you anything? Because guys, that’s just a, that’s something you need to think about yourself. And remember flip it upside down. Giving is not about, you know, uh, at the end giving should be at the beginning at the. So think about that. So guys, I pray you share this with others, that out there, you know, go to the lion within.us, connect with us there, join the lions, then check out the, the, the, uh, resources that we’ve built.

The Bible study, the online course, the 10 scriptures to fight like a lion, the habits that you need, the blogs guys, check out the coaching. If you’re struggling, there is an opportunity. You can be a hero in your, in your. You can you have the power within you just maybe need some, some help unleashing it.

And guys, that’s what I do. I take God’s word and I help men see how can we apply this to our life and Excel in the areas of health, wealth, and self. Now, this sounds like something that would interest you go to the, to the line within us, go to the coaching page and connect with me there. I will ha will have a conversation and I guarantee you guys.

We’re gonna have a conversation that’s real, that’s meaningful, and that can make an impact. So I look forward to talking to you. So again, guys, support us. Keep going out there, check out the line with Dennis. Uh, go. The website is the best way to get in touch with us. Make sure you join the lines then.

Share this with others, give us a rating and review. That does make a big difference. Come back on Friday for the fun Friday. I know you know what the book of the week is, but you don’t know the dead jokes. So you wanna come back and check all that out. Guys. I pray you have a great week. Remember to be that performance driven giver and get out there and unleash the lion within.