00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Lion within us, a podcast, serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders. They’re pre-destined to be I’m your host, Chris Grainger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys, this week for the big episode, we, we have Dr. David whi. Okay guys, it’s gonna be a great conversation before we jump in.

Let’s talk about our scripture. Second Timothy, two, two. Okay. Second Timothy, two, two. We covered it in a spiritual kickoff. Go back and check that out. If you haven’t. But it says the things which you have heard from me in the presence of, of many witnesses and trust these to faithful people will be able to teach others also.

Okay guys, there’s your scripture now? Dr. Comb is an academic physician, scientist and entrepreneur. This guy does it all, but he’s big into mathematics, gen genetics, neuroscience, clinical sciences, and he studies complex inflammation disorders. So guys, this is a little bit different of an episode. I should be honest.

His book was the autobiography of his father and his father was John Wickham and he wrote some wonderful books. And the one he’s most famous for is the Genesis flood. The listeners out there that enjoy history, apologetics. This is your episode, you know, if, if you are right now in the world and you hear follow the science, what should you say?

This is what we talked about. So it’s a great convers. So guys, I’m not gonna hold you back any longer. Let’s get into it.

David. Welcome to the line within us. How are you doing today, sir?

01:35 Dr. David Whitcomb
I’m doing great. Thank you for having me. Oh,

01:37 Chris Grainger
very excited to have you, sir. Very excited to have you. So, you know, just to share with us a little bit for, for our listeners out there a little bit about your background, where you’re from, we’d just like to get to know you a little bit before we get going too deep.

01:50 Dr. David Whitcomb
I’m a Hoosier. Okay. I was born and raised in rural Indiana. In a small town called Winona lake. That was the home for grace theological seminary, where my father was a professor and, uh, his academic career. This was, uh, only at grace seminary. So I grew up in rural Indiana and, uh, had a chance to, uh, observe him and learn from him for many years until I went away, uh, to college and got married in medical school and graduate school and my own career.

So. That’s sort of my background.

02:24 Chris Grainger
Okay. So where was college and, and, and your, your education,

02:28 Dr. David Whitcomb
where did you go? Well, I started at grace college, which was started as a prep school for grace theological seminary. Okay. And, uh, during that time I had a, uh, a friend who, uh, told me that, um, he needed me to take a class in organic chemistry so that there would be enough people to offer it.

Uh, and I said, why would you take organic C. He said, because I wanna go to medical school and I said, don’t, you have to be like a genius from Harvard to go to medical school. He said, no, you just take this test called the MCAT. And if you do good, you get in. And so I thought I’m smart as this guy. And, um, so I took the course and, um, did well, and then took a course in human anatomy and physiology.

That was my, uh, decision really to go into medicine. I, I just thought that was absolutely incredible. It was my fifth major in college. I’d been a history major and failed a business major, and I hated it, a chemistry major. And couldn’t see myself as a chemist, a, uh, art major, which I liked, but I was too slow and didn’t have any talent.

So, uh, I ended up in, in, uh pre-med which grace college didn’t have. I went to, um, then Manchester college. For two reasons. One is to get a new, uh, to start over on my GPA, which was horrible. And secondly is many of the courses that I needed were not offered at grace college. So mm-hmm um, then I went from there to Ohio state, got a master’s degree and a PhD in physiology went to medical school as an independent study student, and then went to duke university for internship in internal medicine, a residency internal.

GI fellowship and post-doctoral training and then was recruited to the university of Pittsburgh, uh, 31 years ago.

04:19 Chris Grainger
Oh, wow. So, so you, you had a St at duke?

04:23 Dr. David Whitcomb
I did. I was there for six years. Okay.

04:25 Chris Grainger
Cuz that’s right down the road. I’m in, I’m based outta North Carolina. So duke university is literally right down the road

04:30 Dr. David Whitcomb
from us.

Yeah. I was able to get 10 years of, uh, training in the first three years. So it was pretty rigorous. Oh, I’m

04:37 Chris Grainger
sure. I’m sure. I mean, duke is, is highly accredited, obviously is one of the, the, the top hospitals regions in the, in the, in the country. So that, that’s what a story. So you and you’ve been in Pittsburgh for 31 years?

Yes, I have. Okay. So you’ve transitioned from Indiana to Ohio to now Pittsburgh. So you, you covered gamut when it comes to sports teams, right? Yes. .

05:00 Dr. David Whitcomb
I always loved sports, but I was, uh, uh, too slow and uncoordinated. And, uh, so, uh, I decided to do something else and it took me a while to figure out what it was.

Right, right.

05:12 Chris Grainger
Well, you figured it out. Congratulations to you, sir. And, and I, and I know today we’re gonna be unpacking your, your, the book that you wrote, a good and faithful servant, and guys check out the links in the show notes, cuz we’ll be promoting this book hard this week, cuz it, it was a. Just a phenomenal read and, and I’d love to get your take, you know, Dr.

Wilkin on, on the story and, and the, the process, you know, what was the best part of writing your, your father’s, you know, autobiography? Um,

05:42 Dr. David Whitcomb
probably the, the best part for me. Is, uh, a chance to really connect with my father in a little bit different level than I did as a child. Mm-hmm so, uh, growing up, uh, two, uh, things were, I think were important that molded my childhood.

Uh, the first one is that, uh, my mother became ill with a liver disease and, uh, ended up dying when I was 14 years old. Mm-hmm and so she had a, a 10 year, uh, illness. So that was, um, very impactful. The second thing was, uh, unbeknownst to anybody at the time I had pretty severe a D and dyslexia. Mm. So I flunked kindergarten and I just couldn’t follow directions and was, um, in trouble all the time, kept getting, you know, uh, my parents called in for meetings.

And so I think I was a great academic disappointment, uh, to my father. And. I just really struggled in school. Mm-hmm so, uh, that was, that was just terrible. As a matter of fact, when I was in junior high school, um, my teachers in, uh, my regular classes, the first time, you know, I was in a large class that moved from classroom to classroom, uh, for different subjects, uh, suggested that I be transferred to the, um, Mr.

Uh, for training, which is I knew was mentally retarded. Mm. My guidance te counselor said that I was not college material and should consider a career in landscaping or gardening. And, um, so, uh, the, uh, there was one teacher by the name of Mr. Brennaman, who was a biology teacher and he argued for me. I didn’t know it at the.

That nobody who is one of the best chess players in the school can be an idiot and suggested that I was bored and should have be placed in advanced math and advanced, um, biology. Right. And so they allowed that for a trial and I did extremely well in those courses and, you know, rose to the top of those classes.

And in retrospect, uh, understanding a little bit more about dyslexia. Is I realized that the advanced courses teach differently. Mm-hmm, , it’s not based on extensive reading and trying to listen to lectures and take notes, which I can’t do at the same time. Um, and so, uh, it was just a different approach and, and one that sort of ran well with me and, and, uh, so I was able to struggle through, uh, you know, junior high school and high school.

I got into grace SIM or grace college on probation. I worked really hard and just still had a C minus average and just, you know, wanted to stay eligible to play soccer. so, um, then in college, uh, on a very cold night, I went to my dorm and, um, but my hands were freezing cold cause I didn’t have gloves and had to scrape ice off my windshield with my fingers and, uh, to drive home from work.

And, uh, some guys were drinking coffee. I picked up a cup of coffee and started sipping it. And I thought, boy, this actually tastes pretty good. And I had a second one, went back, opened up my textbooks and it was like, the words suddenly jumped off the page. And I could understand what I was reading for the first time.

And, uh, so I didn’t haveor or, you know, any of the medications for, for ADHD and dyslexia, but for some reason, the caffeine just connected. And, uh, so ever since then I drink, you know, multiple pots of coffee a day and three or four monster drinks. And my wife’s horrified, but it really helps. Right. You

09:46 Chris Grainger
just need that.

You need that caffeine

09:48 Dr. David Whitcomb
to get going, but it somehow connects the, uh, the brain. Yeah. Uh, in a way that doesn’t connect right. Without it. So, you know, I don’t know exactly how it works, but it’s allowed me to have a. There you

10:01 Chris Grainger
go. Well, that’s very fascinating. Very fascinating. So I, I’m curious though, on, on the book itself, your dad, it, it started out with the Genesis flood and maybe for our listeners who don’t know, you know, Dr.

Wickham about that, that piece of work, would you mind unpacking that a little bit and sharing about the Genesis flood and you know, how that came to be and, and, and how that has served a Christian community in so many ways? Yeah. So,

10:27 Dr. David Whitcomb
um, Uh, my father became world famous, uh, when he co-authored the Genesis blood with Henry Morris and, uh, my father was a theologian, uh, and, uh, Henry Morris was, uh, a scientist.

Uh, so they got together to write this book. Um, the book was written at a time when almost zero Christians. Believed a literal interpretation of Genesis and they were all evolutionists, uh, often what they called the gap theory. Mm-hmm and that’s where there was, um, God created the heavens in the earth, millions and millions of years ago in verse one.

And then in verse two, he reshaped the earth and, uh, it was covered with waters and all of the dinosaurs and all the creatures and everything. All those ages gone by were, were buried. And then he recreated things, um, in a new way and, and, uh, through forced evolution and somehow, you know, the pieces came together and so the six days, or sort of long time periods and right.

Those kinds of things. And that was really the, the, the viewpoint of, uh, of, uh, everyone in the world. There were Christians who, uh, Literal creationist. And it was really led by the seventh day Adventist. And the reason they stuck to a seven day, uh, creation was that their founder, uh, uh, her name was white, uh, was supposedly getting messages from God where she was given the interpretation from God.

And in one of the things she said that God said that seven days. And so they hold. Not for textural reasons, but because their founder said, that’s what it is. And they should have the seventh day as a Sabbath, which is Saturday and not Sunday. And mm-hmm so other things that she enforced, right. Um, there were a few, uh, conservative Lutherans that also argued for, um, six day creation, but it was pretty much dismissed.

As a matter of fact, there was a, an organization called the American scientific association, which. A group of Christians who are trying to figure out how to weave, uh, the evolution story into the Bible. And, uh, they actually had a book celebrating Darwin that came out, uh, to try to do that. Wow. Okay. So my father

13:09 Chris Grainger
and a timeline for this would be just set the timeline for listeners.

Yeah,

13:13 Dr. David Whitcomb
this is 19. This is, uh, uh, so the, the controversy really began with Darwin, uh, in. Uh, 1850s, sixties, uh, time point. And, uh, then in the 1920s was the monkey trial scopes monkey trial, uh, where, um, the theory of evolution and the, uh, scripture, uh, were clashed in the classroom and the creationist lost, uh, because, uh, the, the person that was supposedly an expert in the Bible conceded.

Genesis could be millions and millions of years. And that was the end of that. So, uh, from 1928, uh, until the publication of the Genesis blood, there was almost nobody that, uh, uh, you know, argued for a, uh, six day creation with exception of, uh, uh, George CRI price, who was a seventh day Adventist. But the arguments he had for.

Were weak from a biblical standpoint and weak from a scientific standpoint. And so he was easily criticized even though he is a brilliant man and a, a prolific author. Um, so, um, my father, uh, when he went to grace seminary, uh, he, he went originally, went there in 1948 with the intention of being a missionary to China, cuz he had grown up there and learned Mandarin as a child.

But, uh, mal say, uh, communist party took over the country, killed, uh, the missionaries and Christians and expelled all foreigners. And so he had no other plans. He had nothing to do. So the president of the seminary said, you know, we just had, uh, our Testament professor resign. Why don’t you take over by teaching old Testament?

So he was assigned to teach the pen two, which is the first five books of the Bible Genesis. Uh, Greek, excuse me, a Hebrew ex of Jesus. Uh, so how do you study the Hebrew language and interpret it? And then some other old Testament stuff, cuz his, uh, training at Princeton had been in, uh, ancient, uh, history.

And so, uh, he, he was assigned those things. Well, when you start reading Genesis one, one in the Hebrew and translating it, it just says God created the heavens in the. Right. And it says in six days in morning. And so the more he read it, you know, and he had to teach the class. He just said, well, you know, that’s what it says.

So there, so if the Bible is true, then the alternative evolution has to be wrong. And so for his doctoral thesis, he went from Genesis to revelation and looked up every single passage that had any type of a comment. About the creation or the Genesis flood and carefully translated it and looked at the context and looking at the whole Bible, he found there was a single narrative from Genesis revelation, and that was God created the heavens and the earth in six days out of nothing, not reformed it out of nothing.

And then he destroyed the world that then was. With a global flood that lasted for at least one year mm-hmm and Noah and his family were saved in an arc. Now my father heard a talk with Henry Morris and he’s and it Morris who had a PhD in hydrodynamics. That’s basically what can moving water? Do as far as caring sediment and right.

The kinds of forces and had a master’s degree in geology and his contention was if you just look at the earth and the layers, it says global flood as described in Genesis, it explains all of the strata and layers and everything. So my dad said, well, that, that makes a lot of sense. And, and so he wrote his doctoral thesis on.

The problem was, is that he couldn’t get it published because he was told since his doctorate was in theology, he was not allowed to speak on science. Mm. And so, uh, Henry Morris, uh, he contacted Henry Morris and said, would you please help me? He says, I feel like it’s a battle between the elephants and the whales, uh, where you just can’t fight on someone else’s turf.

That’s right. And so they joined together and, uh, Henry Morris had been working on a book as well. And, uh, so they joined forces and really worked to rewrite each other’s stuff and make sure it was, it was correct. And in 1961, it was published as a technical defense of the Bible and Christian scientist.

And engineers began reading it and they said, this is the answer. The authority is, this is what God said. And he said, nothing else. Mm-hmm this is the, this is what he said. And if we believe it, then how do we understand a world in life view based on what we’re hearing from the evolutionists. And the answer is, is.

It’s a lie. There was no such thing as natural evolution. And if you look at the evidence, it says creation and a flood. Right? So, so that the, the fact that, uh, it was argued was what’s called a presupposition approach to apologetics mm-hmm in words, you don’t say here’s my philosophy of why I believe there’s a guide.

And if there is a guide, what is he like? And you. That kind of argument is bound to fail because it, those philosophical thoughts are, uh, distorted by sin nature. And you can, you can’t figure it out by itself. Mm-hmm instead you start with God said, because the only thing we know that’s pure and true is the scripture.

So you start with the scriptures and announce, this is what God said and show where he said. Right. And that was a correct approach. So, uh, what my father did and he got this information, this idea from a guy named, um, Cornelius van till mm-hmm that, um, really you, you, you need to do, uh, inductive Bible study rather than deductive, and then you’ll end up, uh, more likely in the right place.

And so those, that argument approach really resonated. With Christians who said, I have confidence that that’s what the Bible said and now, right. I’ll go back to science and look at the evidence.

20:28 Chris Grainger
That’s great. Let’s take a quick break. We’ll be right back guys.

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So I’m curious, Dr. Dr. Wilham the, the inducted versus the, the, what’d you say, inductive versus reductive

21:24 Dr. David Whitcomb
deductive deductive, so, okay. Yes. So inductive is you. Read what the Bible says. Okay. Make sure you interpret it correctly. And then you apply it. Mm-hmm it’s observation interpretation application. Okay.

That’s inductive Bible study. Okay. Deductive is, I believe that, you know, such and such is true and I’m gonna go look for some verses to support my ideas right

21:52 Chris Grainger
now for, for, for your father. From what I remember reading the. When he worked on this study, he was doing a lot of the editing that Dr. Morris was.

So it was kinda like, it seemed like it was a lot of ping pong back and forth on the actual development of the great, the, uh, the Genesis flood.

22:12 Dr. David Whitcomb
True. Okay. And, um, so the book, uh, that I, I wrote that really outlined his life. Goes into that in, in, uh, detail mm-hmm showing the Providence of God as a young man, grew through different circumstances was being molded by invisible hands mm-hmm to be one of the few people in the world that could have written his book.

Right. Right. His father, who was not a believer who was a, a high ranking military officer. Fought in world war I and world war II, um, was concerned about him and sent him to a military academy called Macaulay school. Um, but Macaulay school had a Christian headmaster and, uh, so my father became acquainted with the Bible there, but he learned how to study and learn discipline and then got early acceptance to Princeton university, right.

When he got to Princeton university, um, he. Signed up for geology because he had traveled all over the world as a, an army brat, cuz the, you know, army officers get moved every three years. And so that’s how he ended up in China and, and uh, Fort Leavenworth and Fort Bragg and around the world. So he liked maps and countries, so he signed up for it, but it turned out it was the leading experts on paleontology.

And evolutionary geology. And so he ended up studying under the masters to really see how they approached it all and took all their courses and really learned a lot. And he wasn’t a believer at the time at the end of his freshman year, uh, he had been attending a Bible class, led by a man named Don Fullerton, uh, who started the Princeton evangelical fellowship.

And my father. Was saved. He accepted Christ and everything changed. He decided he was not going to be an ambassador, which he and his parents had wanted him to be, but rather an ambassador for Christ. And he wanted to go back to, to China. Mm. However, uncle Sam called him and said, you know what, we’re running outta soldiers for world war II.

So we’re cleaning out all the colleges and we’re draft. All the young men and, um, then, uh, we’ll send them off. Right. But, uh, he was qualified for an advanced program, uh, that allowed some individuals, uh, from the top colleges to study, um, how to follow the army and to, uh, go into a town that was captured and the army goes on and the old leaders are gone.

So you have to have a provisional go. You have to understand the culture, the people, the language, the administrative things. And so he wanted to do that. Right. But he was short on courses cuz he had taken these geology courses. So he said, you know what? He did really well in your IQ course. So we’re gonna send you to engineering.

He says, I hate engineering. And he wrote his dad and he says, they’re forcing me to go against my will. And his dad’s was not a believer. Sun, sometimes a higher power in capital letters, right. Has, um, a higher, uh, greater plans for you and understands things that you don’t understand. So like a good soldier, you know, suck it up, go suck it up, take it.

Right. Right. So he was trained in geology paleontology and in, uh, the hard sciences of engineering and physics and mathematics. So when he was writing the Genesis flood, he could review and understand the scientific arguments. Yes. But it turned out that he wasn’t really a scientist. So he wasn’t familiar with the technical aspects of conducting research and, and, uh, arguing for it.

But Henry Morris was. Right. And so he could, he could critically review Henry Morris’s sections and say what’s a strong argument and weak argument and what doesn’t make sense and those kinds of things. So he really edited it line by line. On the flip side, Henry Morris was a devout Christian heavily involved in the Gideons and witnessing and Bible studies, but he was no theologian.

Yeah. And he did not know how to, how to defend the Bible. His approach was, uh, when I look around and I see the complexity of animals, I just realize there must be a God. Well, that’s, that’s, uh, uh, not convincing the convincing argument is God wrote the Bible. It is in, and this is what it says. That is the correct approach.

And so both of them could. Had working knowledge of the other’s discipline, but wasn’t an expert, but between the two, they had expertise in both areas and critical reviewers. So that the stuff they wrote was accurately reviewed and was tied together as one unit.

27:35 Chris Grainger
I mean, it sounds like they have the ultimate team working together cuz because they, they, their skillsets complimented each other very well,

27:42 Dr. David Whitcomb
but you’re exactly right.

And, and what you, what I learned in writing this. Is the hand of God in preparing someone who was totally committed to him.

27:55 Chris Grainger
Right. Absolutely. Now I’m curious, when we hear, we hear oftentimes follow science, you know, follow the science. What would your dad say to that?

28:06 Dr. David Whitcomb
Follow Christ? That’s simple. Huh? You know what the, uh, you hear follow science and that term.

Is used as a, to bully people yeah. Into accepting things that they may not fully understand. And, um, I’m a, I’m a scientist of, uh, published over 400 scientific papers gone through the critique. That was an editor of a major journal. Right. So I know how science works and I know what the strength of evidence is.

And I realized that, uh, there are several different types of scientists as well. Right. Uh, so, uh, when I hear follow the science, um, I want to know what the data is and what the conclusions were. And a lot of times it’s, you know, it’s people arguing to follow the science that don’t under. The science they’ll understand the science, they have a political agenda or another one.

And they’re trying to. Say, well, the scientists say, and mm-hmm they’re right. There are some scientists that are saying that, but they, they are not rigorous and accurate and fully truthful.

29:26 Chris Grainger
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Hey, let’s take a quick break. We’ll be right back guys. Dr. Comb. When I, when I’m thinking through the adversity that your, that your father had probably faced, you know, with bringing out the Genesis flood and standing, standing, you know, on the, on what it was telling people, he probably had a lot of challenges.

He probably got, he, you know, anytime you, you come against something, that’s. You know, the norm is going against the grain. A little bit challenge is gonna come. So, so what hard hardships did he face? Did, were there hardships when this came out and then how did he persevere through those?

30:46 Dr. David Whitcomb
Well, it was pretty, you know, its pretty interesting, uh, he recognized it was gonna be, uh, severely criticized.

Right. But he didn’t take it personally at all. Oh, okay. He just, his ver his view was sanctify Christ in your. You do because in the end it doesn’t matter what other people say. It, it matters when you stand before God and he asks you, what did you do with the truth that I gave you? What did you do with the opportunities that I gave you?

Did you stand firm on me and my word? Or did you cower to people who, you know, can, uh, kill the body, but not the soul. Right, right. And he, he just, he just didn’t really care.

31:37 Chris Grainger
He sounds like a, just a, a, such a strong man, uh, full of conviction. And, and he, he was chasing and pursuing the right things and the holy spirit was guiding him the whole way.

31:48 Dr. David Whitcomb
Uh, and you know, and I think the, I think the, the thing that, uh, comes out in the book that I didn’t really understand mm-hmm was. You know, when he became a Christian, he struggled cuz he got set to, uh, fight in Germany right away. So he right struggled to, to be mentored. He came back from the army was somewhat disillusioned.

He didn’t know what he should do. And um, then he, uh, he read a book by Wilbur Smith that said, uh, therefore stand and Wilbur Smith’s, uh, view was that Christians had conceded. All critical thinking to liberals. And they said, we’re just going to, you know, study the Bible. And anyone that looks at science is evil.

Mm. Uh, and that’s not really true. What we, what they needed is a new generation of, of people to, to really study the context and provide, uh, technical arguments to counter. Unbelievers and their, uh, opposition to the scriptures. Right. And he suddenly realized here he was at Princeton, uh, and he had the opportunity to really use the skills he was learning and to use that, to, uh, to witness and to reach out to others and to approach these things.

And when he went back to Princeton after, uh, you know, six months after he got back from world war, He, he hit that campus, like a rocket shot out of a cannon. He was 24 hours a day, seven days a week, going to every, every dorm room, uh, talking to people, inviting him to Bible studies, right? Uh, uh, prayer meetings every night, uh, just organizing, uh, people.

And he, he had his regular, uh, school studies as well. He read Christian. He continued that for the rest of his life, he was on fire for the rest of his life. He never stopped. Right. And you know, I mean, I remember growing up every time we would go out, he would have a pocket full of tracks and every person he would talk to, he said, oh, I’ve got something special for you.

He’d give them a track. There was a time here when he was here. And, um, we had him for Thanksgiving, from Indianapolis to come to PI. And he loved China. He loved Chinese foods. We took him out to a Chinese restaurant and as usual at the end, he said to the waitress, can you have the cooks? And people come out.

I’d like to talk to them for a minute. So they came out and he says, I’ve got this special track for you. And they said, we remember you from Indianapolis.

So that’s, that’s the way he was, uh, And, uh, he would be talking and all of a sudden he would just start praying and then keep talking. Yeah. And people didn’t know if they should bow their heads or cl or, and what they realized is he was in constant communication with God. Yeah. It, it was like Spurgen said, right.

I never prayed. I never pray for more than one minute. Mm-hmm , but there’s not one minute that I don’t pray. Right. And, and that’s who he was. He just very, uh, very humbling experience to see him and understand. That God used him because he was a man committed and proven to be a good and faithful servant.

Right. And God gave him those opportunities that he gave no one else and had been preparing him and molding him and giving him different experiences and connections. Right. And, uh, was able to, uh, to produce this book. That’s

35:28 Chris Grainger
amazing. I also picked up, it sound like he had a pretty good sense of.

35:33 Dr. David Whitcomb
He did. He did.

And, uh, he was a joyful man. Uh, my grandfather was also, uh, a very, um, quick wit right. Our name is comb and he was known as wit ah, ah, so kinda runs in the family. And, uh, we, uh, I remember as a, as a kid or, uh, probably in the junior high. Or so where we’d be around the table and we would just start hunting on each other’s things and twisting stuff and it, right.

It was just laughing and laughing was such a, but he, he loved that kind of thing. How do you think

36:13 Chris Grainger
this book, you know, can actually serve the Christian community? What, what do you hope the Christian community gets out of it?

36:21 Dr. David Whitcomb
Uh, there, you know, it. Being dyslexic. I write pretty slowly, took me almost 15 years to finish, to, to write this book.

And I did a tremendous amount of research. I also had the, uh, unusual resource of my father keeping a diary his whole life, uh, from age 11. So I had over 30,000 pages of, of, uh, diary notes. He kept all the letters and everything like that. So it’s a lot of information, uh, but the book is not just about his life, but also his.

He grew up in China and it was a, it was a terrible time for the Chinese people. And, and, and why were the Americans were there and what was happening? Um, then the, uh, the background of, uh, Donald Fullerton, who was just an on fire, um, bachelor who wanted young Princeton students to come to know the Lord and he is a Princeton grad himself and his background, and some of the other people he worked with.

There’s, you know, what happened with him in the army and why did he end up in Germany and how did that mold his life? And so there’s a lot of background information, but there’s also some discussion of some, uh, theological principles that are prince principles that, uh, he taught me and I think are relevant.

Uh, just things about, uh, Christian organizations and some of the, uh, problems there are the correct way to defend the Bible. So there’s a section on, uh, how the Bible should. Approach and how you, you should use it to, uh, uh, witness to other people and what it can and can’t do. And so, uh, I think there’s a lot of teaching there.

There’s a lot of footnotes for people who don’t have a, uh, a background in a lot of this information. So, I mean, what is the difference between, uh, exit Jesus and hermeneutics? Mm-hmm . Well, you know, it’s kind of an, an important distinction. And so there’s explanations for those kinds of things as, uh, kids you go through.

Right? Right.

38:22 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. And I tell you, it was, it was I’m curious. What, what were you, what most surprised you by doing all your research, all those writings that your father had, what was the biggest surprise for you through the process?

38:36 Dr. David Whitcomb
Um, I, I didn’t really know him before that. When you’re a kid growing up, you know, people say, do you know who your dad is?

And I’m thinking, yes. You know, do you know who your dad is? I, you know, you don’t know, it’s just right. That’s your world. Uh, but being able to take a step back, uh, spending years with my own family and other things, and then circling back again and, uh, beginning to work with that and, uh, to work with him, uh, on it, it was, first of all, he, he.

Was shocked. He was shocked. I got to medical school, he was shocked. I got into duke university and he was shocked. I could write a biography because his memory of me was, you know, getting Fs on writing and can’t spell anything. Right. So I, I don’t know. Um, didn’t realize the positive effects of coffee but.

You know, having a chance to, to, to, uh, to demonstrate that, uh, he was also very careful, um, which was not my hope, but he really didn’t change anything that I wrote. He corrected spelling errors and things like that. And, and, uh, was, you know, was supportive. And, uh, sometimes, you know, I, I would ask him specific questions before writing things for perspective and right.

Mm-hmm and those kinds of things. I, I mostly got the admonition from him, um, not to criticize anybody, uh, not to highlight him, but really focus on Christ and what Christ is doing. Right. Right. And say, can I criticize Hitler? He goes, in what way? I’m going that he was bad. Right. You know, just joking a little bit.

But, uh, you know, he, he, he was, um, very appreciative of that and felt like there were things that, uh, God had done for him that could be an encouragement to other people. Yeah. And hundred percent agree. Um, just, just an outstanding example of a man of God, how he became that man. Right. And. You know, he wasn’t an alpha male.

He wasn’t aggressive. He was actually, uh, pretty reserved. Yeah. And, uh, but he was, he just stood on the Bible and that was it. He just, you know, made sure that, that he was careful in articulating exactly what the Bible said on each point and just let the holy spirit do the pounding. Right, right. Hey, let’s take our last

41:20 Chris Grainger
break.

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I’m I’m curious on the end share with us, you know, there was a, is there a special moment at the end of your. Or your father reviewed the last manuscript and I’ll just, I’ll let you take it

42:23 Dr. David Whitcomb
from there. Yeah. So, um, the book goes from 1924 to 1961, and there’s actually so much more of his history. I’m working on a follow up, uh, volume of that.

And that’s really about his teaching and his passion, right on how to prepare materials to teach others. And the more than 1000 men that he personally taught. So. The first part of the book really wraps up with, uh, the publication of the Genesis blood, because that was a, a major achievement, his life in what he knew, um, as he was getting older and suffering from Parkinson’s disease and, you know, old age, uh, he became more and more interested in, in, uh, seeing the book completed and would call me up every Sunday and say, You know, um, how’s how are you doing?

And how’s the book coming, right. So I hate to ask how you’re coming. So I really took some time and, and wrapped it up. And, uh, in, uh, January of, of 2020, I drove from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis where he was staying and handed him this big, uh, manuscript and said, there it is. I said, I’ve got this. Uh, I finished the.

And, uh, there were some chapters that he was, uh, still hoping to be able to review. So he got right at it, uh, on the, uh, night of February 4th. He, uh, my, my brother whose house he was, uh, staying in, um, heard him up at about 10 o’clock at night, which was unusual. And so he went to, uh, see how dad was doing.

And dad was up and looked, you know, usually. Alert. Yeah. And satisfied and took the last chapter. And he says, this is the final chapter, gave it to my brother and said, I’m finished, went to bed and died in his sleep. Wow. That’s so powerful. Powerful. And that was it. Yeah. Everything that he had before him to accomplish was accomplished up to the last minute.

And when he was done, God took him to his reward. What a powerful

44:41 Chris Grainger
story. What a powerful story guys. This has been, you gotta get a copy of this. Now we do do something. Dr. Whim on the, the line within us, we call it feeding time. It’s it’s a quick fire around at the end of, of every interview. If you’re willing to jump in, we’ll do that.

That sounds great. All right. So what’s your favorite thing about God?

45:02 Dr. David Whitcomb
I am. I am amazed at his. His power and wisdom, which is beyond anything we can imagine. And as a biologist and a physician, every time I study things, I just praise him because it’s perfectly designed. Yeah. It’s incredible. It’s awesome.

And it is more incredible than you can imagine. And it’s self replicating and he’s just, you know, he’s such a great God. And the fact that he’s also a loving and caring God. Right. And a personal God, just overwhelming. What’s your least favorite thing, you know? It it’s, um, I wouldn’t say there’s a least favorite things.

There’s things that are perplexing. Yeah. Why, why is sin rampant? Why does he allow mankind to circle down the drain? Right? Why does he allow Satan to run rampant and to be the God of this world? Right. And I know that he knows what he’s doing. Yeah. But those are things that, uh, are perplexing. What he’s

46:11 Chris Grainger
struggling with right now,

46:13 Dr. David Whitcomb
retirement.

Okay. I’ve got. I’ll be retiring from, uh, the university in about six months. Um, I’ve got, uh, two companies I’ve started, I’m working on, uh, but there’s just so much that I’m fascinated by and would like to study a little bit more and, uh, things that, um, you know, I’ll be able to do, uh, that I hope to be able to do.

Uh, but on the other hand, you know, they’re, uh, I wanna spend time with my wife and my children and grandchildren and yeah. So, uh, It’s just a change of life. So it’s kind of a, a, um, and, and watching my, um, 401k go down the drain is, uh, yeah, an interesting observation as well. No, no

46:57 Chris Grainger
doubt. No doubt. It’s a tough times for sure.

What’s a new habit that you wanna create this year.

47:05 Dr. David Whitcomb
Uh, less stress and more exercise. .

47:09 Chris Grainger
Is there any particular kind of exercise that you enjoy?

47:13 Dr. David Whitcomb
Um, I like walking, uh, uh, just it’s a chance to sort of unwind and yeah. Watch things go by and you, I enjoy that.

47:23 Chris Grainger
Okay. So the, the last question, Dr. Wickham, what is one thing you hope that the listeners out there remember from today’s conversation?

47:33 Dr. David Whitcomb
Um, my, you know, the, I think that Genesis flood is a, an extremely important book as it’s really stood the test of. I would hope that they would read about John Fu uh, as a man struggling to find his way growing up, going through different circumstances, didn’t understand, but was committed to God and to his work all the time.

And I think that is gonna be a great encouragement and a model right. To other people. That, that is just so important and so missing. And, uh, there’s such so few examples of godly people that we can look to and learn from, uh, people who have, have got it. Right. Yeah. And so from that standpoint, I think is an incredibly important role model.

No doubt is, uh, he himself had, uh, four or five men that, uh, Were available to him that he learned from, and there there’s not many, uh, others that give the depth and, and, um, diversity and, and, uh, intensity that, that he had. But I think he would be a tremendous, uh, example, especially for, for people in, in high school and yes, college, young career.

I’d just see that as a, as an important contribution.

49:04 Chris Grainger
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed the book. So where do you want people to go to connect with. Where do you want ’em to go to get the book? We’ll make sure the links in the show notes. I just, I wasn’t sure. Is there anywhere you want them to that? You’d recommend people to go find more information.

49:17 Dr. David Whitcomb
Uh, the book can be purchased, uh, on Amazon. Uh, you can get it at a little bit of a discount at Whitcomb ministries, uh, or which is a, uh, website or the, um, master books. OK. Dot com. OK. So those places, uh, have it online. That’s probably the best way to get

49:37 Chris Grainger
it. Okay. I’m gonna make sure we sync that up in the show notes.

Is there anything else Dr. Wickham, that you’d like to share on the line within us today?

49:44 Dr. David Whitcomb
Um, I think we’ve hit a couple interesting things. Uh, there’s certainly volumes more we could talk about. Yeah. And even the whole issue of creation and evolution and what the scientific evidences are and those kinds of things, uh, you know, is a, a fertile area, but.

I think we hit the highlights, uh, about this book and, and why it’s important.

50:06 Chris Grainger
Well, it was a pleasure meeting you, sir. And thank you for joining line with

50:10 Dr. David Whitcomb
thank you so much for having me

50:15 Chris Grainger
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All right, guys. That was a great conversation with, with Dr. Comb. I tell you what I told you. I told you it was going be heavy. He went through a lot of different areas, his dad, what a phenomenal man. Just think about the opportunity to be able to go back and look at that much of your dad’s history, all those diaries and unpack it.

And to be able to sit down with your dad and, and, and have him read his testimony and at the very end. The final chapter, he says it is finished and then he passes on and he’s in glory. So I hope you got a lot out of this conversation. I really highly, highly encourage you guys to check out the book. Uh, the question in the week, this week, how does serving others look like in your life?

So how does serving others look like in your life? Think about that. So guys shared a line within us. Go out there right now, send a text message to a buddy, go, you know, give us a five star rating and review. It’d be great. If you went to the line within us, checked out our resources, our Bible study, our blogs, our, our, our, uh, online courses.

Guys, we’re building everything to serve you. Now I know this week was a little bit different and guys, I appreciate you guys hanging with me. I’ve had eight airable cold, and, but I had to power through this one. So again, sorry for the voice this week, I promise we’re gonna try to get better in the future, but I didn’t wanna hold this back.

I wanted to get this recorded so we could get this out to you guys. So, thank you again. Keep on coming back, come back for Friday for our fun Friday. Now get your butt out there and unleash the lion within.