00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian man who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainger. Let’s jump in. All right guys. It’s your meat episode of the week. I’m excited to have you here. But you know, we’re gonna start every episode of the line with with our scripture, and this week scripture is out of First Corinthians, chapter 16, verse 13.

Be on the alert stand firm in the faith Act like. Be strong guys. I really unpack that scripture on our spiritual kickoff. Go back and check it out because this isn’t, this is a a s SCO that I really, one of the more fun one I’ve had to preparing for really enjoyed that message and hopefully that me message serves you well and I think, and leading into the, the guests that we have today is scripture that really aligns the, what we’re gonna be talking about guys and to have on the show.

We, we welcome back Ryan Ick. Again, for those who don’t know Ryan, he is the husband, father, Iraq combat veteran, and the founder of the Order of Man. Okay. Uh, so he was raised without a permanent father, so we, we didn’t really talk about that on this one. Go back and check out the previous episode. Uh, but he has made his mission to teach guys how to be strong, ambitious sales, sufficient and lean and help each other be more capable.

Husbands, fathers, businessmen, uh, across and community leaders. It’s been his lifelong mission, guys, to help men across the planet really step into those rules as protectors, providers, and presiders. So we, and we actually talk about presiding. What does that look like? So again, Order Man is, is unbelievable.

25 million downloads. Uh, he has about 600,000 social media followers. Thousands of men have been served through his online, his, his workshops, his courses, all the events and things that he puts on Ryan and I, we, we spent a lot of. Unpacking his new book, The Masculinity Manifesto. So wonderful book guys. I mean, we talk about book of the week every week.

This this book really made an impact. I was able to get an early copy. Again, this thing just went live by the time this podcast went out. The book would be out for about two weeks. So guys gotta go get you a copy, but we’re gonna talk about a lot of things. Okay? We’re gonna be talking about influence, authority, and credibility, and specifically credibility.

What does that look? And we’re going to dig into why we need to stop trying to be superheroes and one topic in particular. I’m not gonna tell you where it is right now that I’m struggling with that. He really helped unpack that, I think, or struggling with the same thing. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation.

He was an honor to have Ryan back, so without further due. Welcome back to the show, Ron Mickler. Ryan Mickler, welcome back to the Line within Us. How you doing, my friend?

02:46 Ryan Michler
I’m doing good. It’s good to be back. It hasn’t been too long since we did one before. I, I don’t, I don’t remember when it was, but it wasn’t that long ago.

I know that. No, it wasn’t, man.

02:53 Chris Grainger
It was only a couple months and, uh, we, we did that Turning Sons to man conversation that we had a, a lot of great feedback from that. Well, I got your book. Masculinity Manifesto will have the links in the show for all the guys. Cuz if you, if you don’t, if you haven’t bought this by the end, this conversation, shame when you guys go make this happen.

This is a great book. I was able to, to, to get an early copy, do a read through it. So I’m looking forward to a conversation with you, Ryan, and I’m going back a two months ago, man, like Supreme Court, me, she couldn’t even answer What is a woman? So for you, man, like, what is a man? What, Let’s just

03:26 Ryan Michler
start there, bro.

Yeah. I think there’s a, there’s a, uh, It is a misconception that a man is just simply his biology. That isn’t true. Mm-hmm. , because if that was true, we would call a a two year old little boy a man. We don’t, So clearly it’s more than biology. So I, I don’t mean to be crude, but a lot of guys, when I talk about what does it mean to be a man, a lot of guys will say, Well, you have a dick and ball, so you’re a man.

No. Because again, look at a two year old that doesn’t define a man. So what does define it? Well, there’s male being a male that’s simply biological, and that’s having, uh, you know, obviously the right anatomy and, and the, the hormones that are cosing through our veins in utero and all the way up through puberty and in, into our adult lives that make us male, that cause us to be bigger.

Harrier and stronger. I’m speaking in broad generalities here, but that’s, that’s male. Uh, but then being a man is more than that. It’s our ability to harness our masculine characteristics towards productive outcomes. So when we see somebody and we think, Oh man, that’s a man right there. It’s usually redeeming qualities like he’s chi risk or he’s strong, or he’s a great competitor, or he’s wealthy, which generally takes, uh, some sort of mastery or acu.

So when we look at a man or, or we say, Oh man, he, he’s being manly, right? It’s, it’s something more, we as society, honor and acknowledge that there’s some sort of graduation into manhood. There’s a lot of confusion about what that is. But at the bottom of the, uh, uh, bottom line, at the end of the day, being a man is somebody who can protect himself and other people.

Somebody that provides for himself and his loved ones and even complete strangers and presides steps up into leadership again, first for himself and then over and four other people. I don’t expect that of my sons, they’re males. Uh, they’re boys, but they’re not men. We don’t even expect them to be, but we’re trying to get them to that point.

I think we talked about that in the last conversation. Yeah, we did.

05:32 Chris Grainger
You know, and in that preside part, I’m, I’m so glad you went there cuz I think so many times. Guys, we get that off track. We, we, we, we take that preside part and we don’t under really understand what that means of being a man. So when you try to explain that, that preside part to other guys, you know, how do you, how do you get ’em, you know, in the right state of mind to understand really what that means?

05:53 Ryan Michler
Well, preside is synonymous with leadership. And I, I wanna throw a disclaimer out here. I’m not suggesting that I have this all figured. I’m not suggesting that I’m the epitome of manliness, that I know more about being a man than anybody else. I don’t. In fact, I, I would say I’m middle or, or less than middle of the pack when it comes to how I show up.

I, I fail and I fall short in so many ways, and I struggle with my own personal issues and demons and relationship issues and everything else. I wanna put that out there. Uh, but with regards to your question, preside. It’s having integrity, it’s having vision, it’s being able to communicate and articulate what that vision is, is getting people to a place they could not have imagined going on their own.

Um, it’s sacrifice, it’s service. All of these things that we think about with leadership is what it requires to preside for and over other people. Uh, and, and there is a misconception. Men should be completely dominant and, and subjugate other people. And I, I don’t think very many people believe that necessarily.

But that is something that you’ll see quite often, or at least in people’s behavior. And I’m guilty of that too. I’m guilty of being, uh, controlling, uh, or even manipulative to get what it is I want. And I need to be really clear Yeah. That that isn’t leadership. I’m not exhibiting leadership when I’m doing that.

It’s actually more akin to tyranny or dictatorship when I’m acting that. Leadership is about helping others get to a place, as I said earlier, that they could not have imagined going on their own, but they have a say in the matter. They get to decide, do I wanna follow this person? And if the answer is yes, then you’re leading.

If the answer is no, then we, we have work to do. But leadership is something that can’t be forced upon other people. It has to be offered up by other people.

07:44 Chris Grainger
Yes. Amen. I mean, I think that the whole word, as you talked about, To preside. Equal service, service of others. And so often we get that off track as guys.

We don’t, we don’t, we’re not thinking that service aspect. We just wanna just be over ’em, , you know, we just, Right. We just want them to report up to us versus, Hey man, the most effective leaders, even if you look in the military, it’s all about, it’s all about serving and bringing that, that unity together.

08:07 Ryan Michler
Yeah. It’s very ego driven. Right. And again, this is me, I’m very ego driven. Well, where does the ego come from? It, it actually comes from insec. , and these are things that I’m trying to learn myself is my own insecurities through things that I’ve dealt with when I was younger, Things that I’ve dealt with over the past five or 10 years.

Our insecurities manifest themselves as ego. It’s a defense mechanism. Right? Right. So for example, if I get jealous about something or envious about another person’s success, it really has nothing to do with the other person and more to do with my own insecurity. If I think that I’m weak and so I, I overcompensate by barking orders at people and trying to build up power so I can have authority over others, then that’s ego.

I’m trying to hide the insecurity of, of weakness. Mm-hmm. , uh, if I have an insecurity of abandon. Maybe your father left when you were young, or your mother did, or your father died, or your mother died. And as a young boy, you interpreted that as them abandoning you, which is something that I’ve recognized that I, I deal with personally.

Then I’m gonna try to control and manipulate other people and, and coerce them into not abandoning me. That’s ego and it’s to cover up and overcompensate for our own insecurities that we deal with, right.

09:39 Chris Grainger
Man, that’s powerful stuff. And I mean, one thing you talked about early in your book, you talked about influence, authority, credibility, paying guys in particular influence, influence and authority.

That, that, that comes natural. I think guys, they, they see that that’s, they, they want that. But what threw me office when you threw that word credibility in, that’s something that I think a lot of guys, they, they, they’re not, they’re not thinking about that. So I’m so glad you went there. So you know, why, For you, why is that credibility so important when you’re trying to really lay

10:06 Ryan Michler
out the pillar?

Well, it’s credibility is, is is foundational. I mean, you, you, you have to have some sort of mastery or acumen towards that thing if you want to build up influence with other people. Mm-hmm. . So, so let’s, let’s break this down. Influence is your ability to, uh, have other people volunteer to modify their behavior based on.

Right, Right. They’re, they’re voluntarily. That’s a, that’s a great way to say it. I don’t even think I said that in the book. I should have. It’s influence is them modifying their behavior because of you and, and, and volunt, it’s gotta be voluntarily, right? Like so for example, um, I could tell when I talked about this in the book, I could tell my child, clean your.

And, and they will modify their behavior. But is it necessarily influence? No, not necessarily. If I say, if you don’t clean your room, you don’t get to watch TV tonight. Right? That’s right. That’s not influence. And I’m not saying that’s entirely wrong either. Sometimes that’s appropriate with our kids. There has to be consequences, but let’s not pretend it’s influence.

It’s not. You’re just getting compliance, right? You’re not getting commitment from them, which is one of the chapters in the book. Compliance versus commitment or sub chapters rather. Yeah. So influence, again, is them voluntarily modifying their behavior because of you. Authority that that comes from. If we look at this as a hierarchy that comes from the person you’re wishing to influence, so that would be below you in and not in worth or anything like that.

But I’m just talking about this in, in this hierarchy, authority is typically granted from above. So your boss might say, Hey, now you ha because, because you’ve done X, Y, and Z, you now have the authority to lead this team or manage this project or, or whatever. Credibility is, is what determines whether or not you will have influence and authority with other people.

Mm-hmm. , that’s mastery over a certain subject. That’s the ability to produce results. Uh, that’s, that’s definitely rooted in an element of trust. Mm-hmm. . And so if a lot of people do this backwards, they think, Well, you know, once I get the title, then people will listen to me. They might. But it is an influence.

Again, remember. That’s right. Might listen to you because they don’t wanna lose their job. So is that really the kind of people you wanna lead? Is that really how you want to quote, unquote lead other people? No. So the best way to build up influence, credibility, and credibility, or excuse me, influence and authority, is by building up your credibility, by doing things that high achievers and high producers do.

And that takes

12:50 Chris Grainger
time. Right. And an investment in yourself to build up that credibility to be able to prove yourself.

12:56 Ryan Michler
Yeah. It takes time if you’re starting from a level playing field, from a level surface, but all too often we’re actually trying to dig ourselves out of a hole, let alone starting from a neutral position.

Right. Right. We’ve done so many things, uh, with our wives, uh, or with our children or with a boss or a client that have undermined and rooted away the any sense of credibility that we had. And now we’re digging ourselves out of a hole. Like we’re not even starting on ground level. We’re, we’re having to dig ourselves out of the hole first, even to get to some neutral level and then continue to go.

So it’s, it’s a lifelong pursuit.

13:33 Chris Grainger
No doubt. Definitely a lifelong pursuit, man. So, I mean, kind of moving along in your book here, one area that I wanted to pick your brain about was, uh, the mindset. And you, and, and I love how you brought up this analogy of a super, the superhero mentality. And so many times as guys I know it was me as the dad.

I got three, I got one that’s gonna be here in a. , you know, you feel like you gotta do it all. You gotta be all things to all people at all times, and you can’t ever let ’em down and you’re trying to hold all these things up and the weight of the world’s on you, man. And, and it can just be so draining, Ryan.

So, I mean, just reading that, that chapter on super superhero mentality helped me. So man, how can you maybe unpack some, some nuggets of that for our listeners on how to get out of that mindset, uh, and be able to recognize that like, yo, we are just human at the

end

14:20 Ryan Michler
of the day. Well, again, it’s ego. So if you’re trying to be a superhero and you’re running around trying to save everybody from themselves, why are you doing that?

Are you doing that for them? Mm-hmm. , or are you doing that for yourself? Because you’re gonna either get the accolades, the praise, the notoriety, the income, the bonuses, the promotions, and everything that comes with it. And so if your motive is to prop yourself up, yeah, you’re gonna run around and you’re gonna save other people, but are you really serving them by doing that?

Probably. Right. Probably not. If you really care about other people, you won’t run around and try to rescue them from their problems, but instead, you’ll try to help them work through their own issues and struggles. It’s the old adage of teaching a man to fish versus feeding him a fish. Right? Like I could come in and I, and I could, I could give you some money.

Let’s say you’re struggling with finances and you’re struggling to make your mortgage or your bills, I could come in, Chris and I could lend you a couple thousand dollars to get you through the month. Sure. Absolutely. But actually I’m hamstringing you. Like I could be the superhero in that moment, right?

I could save the day. Right. Chris and his family are saved and they can stay in their house another month cuz Ryan came in and gave him a couple thousand dollars to pay their mortgage. And then I get to beat my chest and flex and show everybody how great I am because I saved Chris. Right. Well, okay, but how does that, And there are moments for that.

There are, there are moments where that would be appropriate. Like if you’re a close friend and you’re struggling, right? Yeah, I would do that for sure. But it’s out of care, not out of propping myself up. That’s right. But if on the other hand I said, Hey Chris, you know, I, I, you’ve talked to me about some financial issues that you’re having and I’ve got some projects around the house I need to do because we have an event coming up.

And, uh, if you come over for the next couple of days and you help me, uh, with this particular project, or clean up my barn or get things set up, I’ll pay you a thousand bucks. Right now. Right now I still served you. I didn’t rescue you. I offered you a hand and I served you, but I made you earn that and now you’re better off than you were 24 hours earlier because you earned that.

And you can, you can still look your wife and kids in the eye and say, No, I, I earned this mortgage payment. That’s right. Cause you actually went out and did work. That’s right. That’s maybe a silly example, but

16:32 Chris Grainger
no many thing is a great example. I’m just, I’m so glad you went there cuz. I mean, so many guys, the stress and the anxiety of life.

We feel like we have to do be all things to all people. And you know, we don’t have that superman underneath our shirt, man. I mean, that’s just not, just not a reality. And I think just giving ourselves some grace there, uh, goes a long way. So I, I just appreciate you going there, uh, and dedicating a whole chapter of your new book, uh, to, to really helping guys with that may be struggling with that.

I struggle with

17:01 Ryan Michler
that too as I read the book and I have over and over and over again. And then I read it for the audio version. I was like, Oh, not doing that. Oh, not very good at that. Oh, I could do better at that. And so I thought I was writing this book for other people, and it turns out I was actually writing it for myself.

Yeah. You know, that’s a manual for me. And when I slip up, I can look at it and say, Well, the, the manual’s right there. Like, I just need to do that. That’s gonna start doing it. Right. . Right. Or do it better or, you know, But, um, yeah, I, I struggle like everybody else, especially. Because of the position I’m in, which I put myself here is that order of men, and I lead these men and I’m trying to serve these men.

And so I, I think a lot of the times I have to be perfect. And there’s a lot of stress that comes with that. Yeah. And if it’s too much and too high and you don’t have an outlet for it, man, it’s gonna, it’s gonna come tumbling down, something’s

17:54 Chris Grainger
gonna pop eventually. Hey guys, I was gonna take a quick break.

We’ll be right back.

Most men know what it’s like to do life in a vacuum and feel isolated on the journey. We believe every man needs a community to help them become the men they were created to be more than just a website or podcast. We are a community of Christian men who are committed to supporting and encouraging one another on our journey, become the best versions of ourselves.

We are men who have fought the good fight and come out victorious. The lion within us is here to help you stop feeling lost, defeated, and alone. Instead, find community and connection with other men that will help you achieve your goals. Live a life of purpose and be the leader God intends you to be.

Visit the lion within.us to join the new growing Lyden community today.

Now, Ryan, you mentioned talking about, um, you know, you, you’re leading the order of man, you got all this stress and you’re trying all these different things going on. You can’t be everything to everybody. So that leads me to the next part of the book that, for me, I think resonated the most. And I’m struggling with this, so maybe you can help me with it, uh, as a, as I think through it, and it’s talking about rendering yourself obsolete.

And as a dad, you know, I have a 12 year old, a 10 year old, you know, two, two babies. So def definitely different places in life so far as, you know, my, my one year old, she relies on me for everything. Right. And I mean, that’s, I mean, it’s that stage where you literally have to take care of them or they’re gonna die , you know, versus your, my 12 year old.

Much more independent reaching points in life. And I think you either put it in your book, was one of your podcasts where like the first time it hit for you, I think you were with Summer with your sons, maybe a basketball game, and you went there with them and they bounced and they left you and you were just sitting there, you know, by yourself.

Yeah. I remember you talking about that. And I’m, I’m, I’m getting more and more of those moments with my daughters and the whole mindset of rendering and rendering myself obsolete. Really, it, it, it, it struck me hard, man, but it’s so ooh, doggone accurate. And, and then you start applying that to work too.

Guys get really squirrly when you start talking about that from your professional standpoint. Cuz at the Lion, I’m trying to do the same thing as we grow, I, I foresee a day just like you, which you’re asking me anything in your, your your, uh, where you have like Kip and some of those guys, they come in and you’re not even there and the, and the show keeps going on, Right?

You, you’re, you’re building that stuff. But for some guys that takes a high level of, of security as who you are as a man to be able to release some of that stuff. And I just, I would love to get your take on this more, uh, on this idea of renting our self ops lead and why that’s so important as, as we grow, as, as

20:48 Ryan Michler
leaders and as men.

Well, again, it comes back to ego, right? So, so many of us don’t wanna put ourselves out of work. You want your kids to always need you, you want, you don’t wanna train up your competition. That’s when I hear a lot, right? When it to the professional world, right? You know? Or you don’t want somebody to pass you up or show you up or make you look bad in the professional arena.

I get it. I understand all that. But again, if you’re gonna serve other people, whether it’s your kids or people at work, your coworkers, colleagues, Then you need to do a good job of making sure that they could not only replace you, but they could actually excel above and beyond what you’ve been able to.

Mm-hmm. , how, how rewarding is that if you see one of your kids who got further than you mean? My, my oldest son, he’s playing football. My, actually, my, my three boys are playing football and, um, my, my youngest, he’s six, he’s playing flag football. This is his first year and my other two, uh, 14 and. Are playing.

And they’ve, they’ve played for about four years now. And my oldest son is actually bigger than me. He’s 14 years old. He’s six foot, he’s 165 pounds. He’s, he’s bigger than me. Uh, not, he’s not heavier than me yet. Right. But he’s, he’s taller than me and he’s gonna be bigger than me for sure. And I see what he does on the football field as a, uh, as a freshman.

He’s starting both sides of the ball in jv. Um, he’s got a little varsity playing time already and it’s so rewarding, fulfilling to see that he’s doing better than I ever did as a kid in, in that arena, you know? And, and I had a manager, this was probably 10 or 15 years ago, where she always ran a very good store.

This was a retail clothing store that I worked at. Um, and I was in a management development track with. And she had such a great ability to train up other people, myself included, to go out and manage and run different stores. And she took great pride and satisfaction in knowing that not only did she run a good store herself, but she was responsible for training up so many other people, dozens and dozens of other people to go out and them having their own successful stores.

So we call this a force multiplier. When I first moved to. I went up and spent a couple of days with, uh, border patrol here in Maine and they talked about this concept of force multiplier like a helicopter, for example, or a plane can see more than any one person or camera equipment or a fence as a force multiplier cuz there doesn’t need to be one person at, you know, every couple hundred yards to manage the the border.

Right. They call ’em force multipliers. Well, as a leader you should be a force multiplier. If you’re just going at it alone and you think that you’re gonna get what you want, or you’re gonna serve as many people as you possibly could by yourself, then you’re sorely mistaken. So when you talk about the asking anything that we do, and I have Kip and Sean or Drew run those even without myself, how amazing is that?

Those guys can run it. They can do an excellent job. They can give insight that I couldn’t necessarily give cuz they’re different people. And then what I can do is now I can go. And I can spend time with my family or go on a hunt or focus on a different business project. And so when we learn to render ourselves obsolete, we become force multipliers and we leverage ourselves for the betterment of our goals and visions and desires.

24:10 Chris Grainger
Right. Man, that is, that is just absolutely killer, man. I mean, and when I brought this up, I think I brought it up at a discipleship group that I, I was leading and, and talking with the guys and, and particularly around, they had the. Couple of ’em have younger kids and when I brought that up, man, they looked at me like I had three heads, man.

Like, what are you talking about? I don’t, I don’t even wanna think about rendering myself obsolete. But I’m telling you that’s a mindset, mindset shift that if we can make as men, I see so much value. Just this hats off to you for, for recognizing that area and calling it out. Cause I think that just that one little nugget for.

It’s something that I’m constantly thinking through ever since I read the book. Now, Gary, what do I need to be doing to actually do a better job of serving the ones that I love? And sometimes that means not doing stuff that I’ve enjoyed doing for years just because I’ve been doing it. But, you know, I gotta give some of that up.

And there’s, there’s a new season, uh, that, that, that of life that’s coming. I just need to embrace.

25:07 Ryan Michler
Yeah. I mean that’s one of the hardest parts is you have to give up. You have to sacrifice in order to do that, and there are things that you might enjoy doing. There are things that you’re really good at doing that are also ego-driven.

Things like we’ve talked about as the thread line for this conversation. You, you know, you’re being egotistical when you hear yourself say, Well, you know, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself, right? Really, you’re so arrogant to believe that not a single soul on this planet, out of 8 billion people could do it just as good or not better than.

Really? Right? Is that really what you think? That’s a ridiculous thought. Yeah. And besides, if you have somebody who can’t do it as good as you and they’re on your team, then shame on you for not training ’em to be able to do that. . Amen. Man. Or, or you might hear, or you might hear yourself saying, um, well, like I said, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself or just any, any number of these things where you think that it all rest on your shoulders.

And you know what? It actually might for a little while. Right. Like it might be the case where you have somebody else. Uh, for example, when Kip started running a podcast with me, he is, he was not nearly as good as he is now. Just like I wasn’t when I started podcasting. So what do we do? We give him opportunities and we give him reps and he gets better and better and better and better.

Yeah. And then you give training and feedback and guidance and direction and then more opportunities and yeah, if you don’t wanna look at it as rendering yourself, obs. Fine. Don’t look at it like that. Look at it as you becoming a force multiplier, if that’s a better way for you to look at it. This is the same thing though, right?

26:37 Chris Grainger
I think it’s cool. I mean, I, I, I’m, I’m okay with the obsolete part. I think for me, this is just, as that stands out, I can. I can definitely relate and, and see the power behind that. So, man, thank you. And by the way, Kip does a great job. Uh, love, love hearing

26:51 Ryan Michler
him most of the time on the show. Yeah, . Yeah. We don’t wanna pump him up too much, right?

Yeah, no, he, he’s already got a big head. No, he, he always does a great job. He always does a great job.

27:00 Chris Grainger
Yeah. Love those. Love those. Ask me any things, man, you guys just, there’s so much value in those episodes. And guys, by the way, if you, if you’re not listening to order a man and you’re listening to this, uh, shame on you.

So we’ll make sure that links into show notes too, cuz I mean, That’s a go-to. I only have a couple podcasts every week that I, I’m religious about. And bro, yours is definitely one of ’em. So, uh, thank you. Thank you. And, and I think your, your, uh, Friday field notes, it feels like to me they’ve shift, they’re, they’re really personal lately.

Like you’re, you’re sharing some intimate things, it sounds like that’s going on in your life. I just appreciate the vulnerability that you’re offering up in those episodes, man, cuz I’m, I’m getting a lot just from the, your last one in particular, just a. Around, uh, just listening to where you’re at and your journey and things that you got going on and how much you’re willing

27:44 Ryan Michler
to.

Yeah, it’s hard to do that. It’s good for me. I like to talk. That’s the way I process. You know, we have these attachment styles. You have avoidance attachment, you have, uh, anxious attachment, and I tend to be more of that, the anxious attachment. Mm-hmm. , but being able to talk about and work through these things.

So, The podcast has been very therapeutic for me. Yeah. Because I get to flesh out a lot of these ideas that I’ve been thinking about and talk to other people who might be experiencing the same thing. I’ve also noticed that when I open up and actually share something genuine, something real, something I’m really struggling with, uh, it always connects on a deeper level with other people.

The conversations that other people are having, because I’ve done that, is pretty cool, and it wouldn’t take place if I wasn’t willing to share.

28:30 Chris Grainger
That’s it, man. I mean, for, for us, like the episode where I talked about, uh, my, my bounce with anxiety over the years and then the episodes where I talked about me losing our daughter and, and grieving as a, as a, as a, as a man grieving the loss of the child.

Those are the episodes that connected to most of people when we get the most feedback on. But I mean, it took a lot of courage just to get those stories out there, right? I mean, you turn a mic on, you’re tell talking to a camera, you know how it is. I mean, but if you’re not a podcaster, you don’t. Guess you already can’t understand what it’s like to be able to get that vulnerable to try it behind the mic, but there’s tons of value in it, mans.

Just thank you for that. Um, I, I did have a question. You’re, you’re part about harnessing masculinity for productive outcomes. You list eight attributes here. I’m curious, I obvious we’re not gonna go through all eight, but which ones? And I will just kinda list them for the gas stoicism, competitiveness, dominance, aggression, vigilance.

Violence, honesty, and self respect. If you had to look at that list of eight, is there one that’s most often misunderstood?

29:33 Ryan Michler
Hmm. Yeah. I, I think violence pro, I mean, really the reason I chose those is they’re also misunderstood. Mm-hmm. like violence, dominance. Yeah. Aggression. Like, that’s why I chose those.

Cuz normally it’s like discipline. I. Hard work. You know, the virtues, the, the soft, right? The, the tee-ball type virtues. You just toss ’em up there and hit ’em out of the park and they’re, they’re important. But these are virtues and characteristics that we inherently possess as men that aren’t always looked at as favorably.

In fact, they’re often looked at as, uh, unfavorable, uh, because they are actually right. Violence, You know, how, how many times have we seen look, pull. Pull up a Fox News or cnn, and you’re gonna see all sorts of encounters. I, I saw too this morning about sexual, uh, uh, predators being let out of prison have assaulted women, you know, and it’s like, Right, okay, well there’s violence right there.

There’s dominance right there. Right there. Yeah. And you can see it everywhere. And so we automatically equate dominance and, and violence with this ne negativity. But let, let’s take violence for example. If I was walking down the street and I saw a young, attractive woman and I decided that I was going to physically assault this young woman, then I think all of us who are listening would agree that that use of violence would be an inappropriate, to put it mildly use of that ability Right now.

Change the scenario. Let’s say, and I’ll just use you cause you’re sitting here. I see you doing that to a woman and I go over there and I use my propensity for violence to put a stop to it. I think all of us would agree that that was a righteous use of violence. So is violence wrong? No. It’s how we utilize it and how we use it.

So that’s what I mean when I’m saying harnessing masculinity for productive outcomes. Right? I can use violence to protect my. I can use violence to protect other people. Mm-hmm. , I can actually use violence because I’m capable of administering violence to get myself out of situations that I don’t want to be in.

Right. Or diffuse situations I don’t want other people to be in because I’m capable of handling myself to a degree in those environments. Yeah. So they’re all crucial. It’s just how we harness it. And that’s why I say masculinity, and this is something that a lot of people disagree with me on. Masculinity is not toxic.

A lot of people would say that it is including the American Psychological Association, which I, which I, uh, link in in the book. So the American Psychological Association did a study and said, basically at the end of the day, that characteristics attributed to masculinity such as, uh, dominance, competitiveness, tism, and aggression.

Those were the four they used, I believe, uh, are inherently destructive or dangerous to our young men. So what they’re saying is that masculinity in and of itself is toxic. That isn’t true. But there’s another camp out there that says masculinity is good. Well, that isn’t true either. Masculinity is not inherently good.

It’s amoral. I already told you. Masculinity is a set of characteristics and behaviors that are linked to our biological makeup. Does it make it right or wrong, or good or bad? No, it just is right? Manliness. Manliness is what I would consider virtuous righteous masculinity. It’s our ability to harness those characteristics for productive outcomes.

And that’s what defines us as men. Like we started the conversation with.

Yes,

33:08 Chris Grainger
I love it, man. Now I’m curious. Now obviously we, we serve at the line within as Christian men, so when you look at that list of eight and you think of Christian from a, from a Christian men’s standpoint, There’s, is there a one that you see Christian men struggling with more over the other, and then maybe what could they do to start flipping that?

I mean, violence definitely jumps out, but just out of that whole list is there is, when you think about a Christian man in, in, in church on a Sunday, does any one of those eight jump out? Hey man, we, we really need to focus here, here to, to, and start changing the narrative.

33:39 Ryan Michler
I think dominance would actually be one that you could generally look at and say, Well, you know, we’re supposed to be meek, right?

We’re supposed to be mild, we’re supposed to be Christlike and we are. All of that is true, but Christ was a dominant force. . Yeah. Even as a young boy, I’m not saying he went out and like physically dominated people, but I’m saying he was a dominant force. He, he is and was the most influential human being to ever walk the.

Are you telling me that he didn’t dominate? No. He knew the word of God inside and out. He was willing to share it. He was willing to rebuke people. He was willing to call it exactly like he saw it. He was willing to walk how, who knows how many miles and miles and miles he walked. He, he, he, he rescued people.

He brought people back to life. He cured people. He cured their hearts and their souls, and their bodies and their minds. He dominated every facet of his life. That’s what I’m talk, I’m not talking about dominating other people. I’m talking about picking up the mantle of whatever it is you do, whether it’s podcasting.

Or preaching or building websites or taking pictures or whatever, is learning to become a dominant force. And the reason we don’t is because people are intimidated by that. So let’s go back to Christ. Christ was literally crucified because people were intimidated by him. That’s it. That’s the only reason.

I mean, I know it was part of the plan and all of this, but, but what I’m saying is, That there were people who were so threatened by him that they crucified him, and that’s what society is trying to do to men. Yeah. Oh, well, who do you think you are? Oh, you know, you’re so arrogant. Oh, you’re this, Oh, you’re that.

Oh, you think you’re special? Oh, they just want to drag you down and drag you through the mud. And if one little thing goes wrong, they’re like, And they try to blow up your world, they’ll personally attack you. They, they’ll do you. It’s all, It’s crazy. Yeah. Simply because you have decided to excel in a righteous way.

Right. And it’s the, it’s the, uh, it’s just the scripture, since we’re talking about Christianity of, of hi hiding. Hiding your light. Mm-hmm. , I don’t know what, I don’t know what verse it is right off hand. But you don’t, you don’t put it under a, uh, like the, under a bushel or whatever, however it goes. I’m not, I’m not.

Biblical scholar, but I, but I know the verse well enough to butcher it like I am, but it’s like you don’t Yeah. You, you, you let it shine. Yep. That’s right. Right? You have talents and gifts and abilities and skills that have been granted to you by God. So let ’em shine. Let other people see them, but other people see what you’re about.

And if they have a problem with it, that’s okay, but that’s their problem, not your problem. Right? They don’t want you to dominate. But I’ll tell you what God wants you to. He wouldn’t have given you what he gave you if he didn’t want to use it and harness it and learn how to use it and wield it correctly and powerfully.

36:45 Chris Grainger
Amen. When we have these gifts, man, I mean, and we don’t you, you’re right. We’re putting that, that lamp under the lampstand and at that point it’s useless. It’s completely, you’ve completely wasted that gift that you have that you could be using to bless other people with. But, uh, you know, we’re. Sometimes we’re just, we’re scared we get, we help, we hold ourselves back.

So I think that was a great one, a great attribute to, to share there. Awesome. Look, look, I’m gonna take our last break. We’ll be right back guys.

I get a chance to talk to guys every week and one consistent struggle that keeps rising. It’s a lack of community. To address this, we created the lion stand to start building a community of Christian brothers with the aim of serving them resources to combat the darkness. We are working hard to bring encouragement, inspiration, and tips to help you be the leader your pre-dent to be.

As part of the lion stand, you’ll also be first in line with new opportu. Events and resources that are designed to serve you in your journey. So hop over to the line within.us to sign up for the lion. Stand for free. That’s the line within.us. And become a member of the Lion Stand today.

So Ryan, I, uh, was prepping for this man and I was meeting with some of our community and I threw it out there. Two our guys in the lines then about, you know, I told him I was meeting with you and we’ll be going through the book and I had two guys hit me up with questions that they just, they had to ask like, I said, Well, maybe I can do my own little version of asking me anything with Ryan.

So, you know, we’ll throw it out there. So the first is a buddy of mine named Ethan. Good. Uh, him and his brother Dylan, they’re awesome. They’re 19 years old. They’re in college. They’re just getting started, right? So I’ve been mentoring them for a couple years and, uh, just great young men. Uh, hearts for the Lord.

Hard workers work ethics. They’re the type of guys that, like, we want our, I want my daughters to marry him one day. Right. Guys, with these type of characteristics. Right. And so Ethan had a question about, or what are some ways that he can plan his day effectively, uh, and stay disciplined? And he said, you know, you’re talking to Ryan ler.

I know his days are effective and he’s very disciplined in what he does. What maybe he’s, he was hoping to learn some of your best practices that he could apply to, to the way that he goes about his day. So any advice you’ve

39:04 Ryan Michler
got for Ethan there. Yeah, well, I would say that, that I’ll give you something that everybody would give you, and that’s planning out your day in the morning.

So I use, um, this is what I use, This is our battle planner. So I, I have it with me at all times and in it is a list of my non-negotiables every single day that I do. Uh, and, and those are things I just do every morning, you know, And then it has a section for, uh, notes and things I need to accomplish throughout the day.

And some of those will change. So what I’ll do is I’ll look at that list that I write down and I’ll say, Okay, well what I need to get done today? Well, I have these 10 things I need to get done. And I start, depending on how I feel, I’ll either start with the one that’s the easiest, right? Because I’m like, um, if I’m not in it for a day, I’m gonna start with the one that’s easiest cuz it’s just gonna gimme a little win and a little momentum, little momentum there.

That’s. If I’m, if I wake up on fire and I’m charged and I got a good night’s sleep and I’m ready to go, then I might actually want to tackle the hardest thing. Or if I’m up against a deadline, okay, well I got a deadline. I gotta do this hardest thing first, right? But I’ve got it in front of me, and that’s really important.

It’s always right there in front of me. And then what I do is I, the system I use is that when I start the task, I put a little, a little diagonal line through it. That means I started it. Okay. When I complete it, I complete the X. So I do half of an X, and then when I complete it, I do a full X. Okay, That’s cool.

And I do that because I might be able to start something but not finish it. Like maybe I need to make an important phone call. And so in that, well, I made the call, so I’m gonna do half an x. I made the call, but maybe I didn’t get ahold of the person cuz they’re. So I started it. I did what I could do. Now the ball’s in their court, right?

So it’s still kind of a win. Like I can’t control everything, but I control the fact that I made that phone call, right? And then when I end up talking to that person, I can go ahead and exit out. Yeah. So that’s a very simple planning system that I use. But the one that a lot of people don’t use is that they don’t recap at the end of the day.

That’s very important, is you gotta go through at the end of the day and then you pull up that list because you actually have it written down and documented some. And you look at it and you’re like, Okay, well what did I get done? And you can see your wins. Like I got these seven things done. I feel good about that, but I didn’t get these three things done.

Or maybe I got, I started everything but three things are not finished because they take a little longer. Or I’m waiting on something from somebody. Right? And then what you do is you roll over the task that aren’t completed to the next day. And then tomorrow you and, and new things are gonna come up that evening or between now and then, and you write those things down.

And I just do that every single day, day in and day out. And that’s how you can become successful. It’s, I wish it was sexier than that. It just, it just isn’t. It’s not, it’s not a sexy thing. It’s just Right. You just do it

41:50 Chris Grainger
Well, I’m curious man. So I went to a, uh, a talk last week and it was a, it was a x uh, Air Force colonel.

He, he actually taught, uh, tactical aviation, you know, firefighting between, uh, F 22 s and what his, his whole, um, reason I’m bringing it up is cuz you talked about going back and seeing how you did his whole, his whole talk was around debriefing, like the power of the debrief and going back and I guess the Air Force does debrief.

I forget your army. So was it after action review or something like?

42:24 Ryan Michler
Was, was like a, that’s what I call it for myself as an interaction review. There

42:28 Chris Grainger
you go. Now just, I know mil, the different, um, branches of military have different terms for what it looks like to basically go back and do that analysis of what happened.

But he called his, uh, debrief to win, and I think that’s just a piece that we miss often. We just, we go throughout our day, click, click, click, click, Then we never look back. So I think that’s, that’s such sage advice to, to give, to definitely have that look back and see how we

42:52 Ryan Michler
perform. Yeah, I ask myself in that after action review, and this goes with my end to day planning, I ask myself, what did I get done?

Mm-hmm. . So I’ve got my list of 10 things, for example, and I got seven of those done. What didn’t I get done? Well, it’s these three things that I need to focus on, so I’m gonna roll those over tomorrow. Then the third question is, what did I do well? Well, you know, I was really efficient with my day and I didn’t take lunch, and I worked through lunch and I knew exactly what I was gonna do and the priorities were straight.

So I was really good at that. Right. What didn’t I do so well? Well, I got distracted around two o’clock cuz I jumped on my phone and I got distracted for an hour on Instagram. Okay. Well good. Like that’s little cues and little feedback you can learn from. Right. And then the fifth question is, what am I going to do moving forward?

Right. So tomorrow how I’m gonna be better adjust. Well, I’m gonna, I’m, I’m still gonna look at Instagram because that’s part of my business. But I’m, I’m gonna look in the morning and I’m only gonna look like I’m gonna set a timer and only do it for 15 minutes. Right. Okay. Well now you’re better. Right. So what am I gonna do?

Moving forward really moves the needle in a different direction. Nice. Nice. And it’s fast. Like that shouldn’t take you more than five or 10 minutes. Right? Cause if it does, if it’s this after action reviewer debrief and it takes an hour per day, it’s like you’re not gonna do that. Right. , this is just quick.

That’s right. And you can do it in any moment. I’ll, I’ll do it after this podcast. Okay. Well, what did I. Oh, I got the podcast done. What didn’t I get done? Well, in this case, I actually didn’t show up on time. I didn’t have the link. Right, Right. And you, you gave it to me. We just failed to put it into the calendar.

So that’s a mistake on our end. And so I showed up late, which cut the podcast short. That’s good for me to know. What did I do well? Well, I feel like I’m pretty prepared. You’re obviously prepared and we’re talking about the book. What didn’t I do so well? Well, maybe there’s a couple questions that came to me at a left field and I didn’t quite know how to answer those.

And so that’s. Okay, what am I gonna do the next time I have a podcast? Well, I’m gonna make sure the link is in there ahead of time, cuz that’s important. I wanna show up and respect my guests. Right? And I wanna make sure that I know what the, the questions, maybe not all the questions, but at least the topic’s gonna be so I don’t get caught off guard.

Right? There’s an example of what you would do after something as simple as a podcast that’s.

45:00 Chris Grainger
Well, Ethan, take it. Apply it, brother. You, you got it from the man himself right here. So the next question is from our, our, uh, our buddy Mark Thomas. He joined our lines then, and his question was, how do lines take back what has been given to us by God while not upsetting the sheep?

So I thought it was interesting he talked about not upsetting the sheep there, but just your cur your, your take on what we, you could be doing as men to, to really start taking a stance more in, in the world that we’re living.

45:28 Ryan Michler
Well, okay, so let’s use that analogy of the lion and the lamb, and I’m gonna deviate a little bit okay.

From that, um, I mean, I get the context of the lion, right? The lion is, is, is noble. Obviously the lion is bold and courageous. All of those things that are wonderful and sometimes you need to be a lion and sometimes the sheep don’t really matter. It depends on who the sheep are and what they’re thinking and what kind of hostility they’re spitting at you.

And it doesn’t really matter what the sheep say about you. But sometimes we would be better off being a shepherd. Mm-hmm. the lion doesn’t care about the sheep, cuz the lion just wants to eat the sheep. But the shepherd cares about the sheep. Right. Because that’s his livelihood and that’s, he spends time with the sheep and he appreciates the, the, the nature of the sheep and Right.

You know, and it’s like that’s, that’s his flock. Like those are his, So the shepherd looks at it and has stewardship over the flock. Right? And, and so you, your, your, your family, for example, they’re not sheep. They might be led astray. They might be indoctrinated or being taught things that aren’t gonna serve them well.

You’re the shepherd, So embrace them. How do you take it back? Well, you can’t do it violently. That’s your family. Right? You know, you might ostracize them in the process of doing that instead, Shepherd. Be an example, right? Isn’t that what the shepherd does? Follow me. Right? Be an example to those individuals and show them a better way of living.

Show them the right way of living. But as far as the people that don’t matter, like you don’t have to worry about winning those people over. That’s right. But there are gonna be people who do matter. Yeah. And we gotta get away from maybe in those instances, the lion mentality and turn more into the shepherd mentality.

I love it. Now.

47:18 Chris Grainger
Wonderful answer there. So, Mark, there you go. From Ryan. So now, Ryan, you know, we all also do the feeding time, the lightning round. I, I mixed it up a little bit because you already went through our, our, our normal questions, but we’ll wrap it up with a quick fire lightning round and then, and then let you go buddy.

Um, okay. So right out the gate man, favorite thing that you, that you like about being a man? Just what is the favorite.

47:43 Ryan Michler
That’s, that’s a funny que I, I know, right? Because everything I do could, I guess, could be done by women too. Um, I mean, I, I don’t know. I like, I like training jujitsu, you know, That’s my propensity for physicality and violence and I really like doing that. I like dominating in that sport and that aspect.

And even when I’m being dominated. By another man, Like, maybe I’m a masochist, but I kind of enjoy that too. I’m like, Oh, okay, well, there’s things for me to still learn here, So that’s cool. I, I, I really love that. All right. What’s,

48:15 Chris Grainger
uh, what I’m curious, this is more personal stuff. What, what’s your go-to music, man?

Do you have a favorite band or anything?

48:21 Ryan Michler
You know, actually, I don’t li this is kind of a running joke in my household and with people who are close to me. I don’t really listen to music. Okay. Like, I don’t, I don’t really care about music. Like, I don’t, sometimes it just, it bothers me. It’s like too loud or like, I.

Maybe I’m just turning into a crotty old man or whatever, but , Yeah. I, I mean, I, if I do listen to music, I’m usually, usually listening to like Red Dirt Country, something like that. Right. Um, Cody Jinx is a personal favorite. GRA Smith is a friend of mine and I really think highly of him. I love his music.

Uh, Yeah. So those are, those are a couple. Okay. I like country mostly. If I listen to music at all. Nothing wrong with that.

49:01 Chris Grainger
Now, I am curious. You’re obviously, you’re, you’re, you’re a top level podcaster. I mean, you, you’re to me, you, you, you are, you are the bar, right? But, so I’m curious for you, do you have a

49:12 Ryan Michler
favorite podcast?

Uh, you know, you know who I really enjoy is Matt Walsh. I love Matt Walsh’s podcast. Okay. Yeah, he’s, he’s hilarious and he’s such a good troll. And he’s his, he’s very well, very well articulated, and his program flows really well. Like, that’s, that’s the podcast I listen to most is Matt Walsh, or Ben Shapiro.

And we’ve had Ben on the podcast. Yeah. Oh yeah. Shap and worked on getting Matt, but, uh, that’s been proven to be a challenge. Right. Well,

49:44 Chris Grainger
Shapiro’s demand to you, man. I love,

49:45 Ryan Michler
love his. And it’s easy to say like Rogan, you know? Right. He’s ma he’s masterful. I mean, just masterful at it, which I, I learned a lot from him when I listen.

Yeah. Now you, not so much the subject as much as the way he conducts it conversation. It’s very powerful. Oh,

50:02 Chris Grainger
no doubt. No doubt. So you don’t like music? Do you like movies? Do you have all time favorite movie?

50:09 Ryan Michler
Um, probably I would say,

I, Man, it’s so tough. Like there’s so many good movies out there. I was talking with somebody about a Knight’s Tale, which is something that you wouldn’t think of a whole lot, right? Um, Top Gun is another one. Have you seen a new bro? Yeah, the new one’s great. Usually the new one is not as good. Like, it’s so good, so good.

Um, Braveheart is probably my all time favorite. Yeah. Horse, gladiator, patriot, you know, that kind of genre. Yeah, I’m with you. Braveheart is, is my all time favorite, I would say.

50:45 Chris Grainger
Okay. So last two questions, Ryan. So what, who is somebody that

50:50 Ryan Michler
Actually I was gonna say the cool thing about Braveheart is I actually had the writer of Braveheart on the podcast too.

Randall Wallace, No relation, but yeah, he was on the podcast a couple years ago.

50:59 Chris Grainger
That’s awesome, man. That’s. So last two questions. Who is somebody that you want to interview but you just haven’t got him on the show yet?

51:08 Ryan Michler
Uh, Jordan Peterson is on that list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still struggling to get him and pin him down.

Hopefully you can make that happen at some point. That would

51:15 Chris Grainger
be awesome, man. I saw Jordan, um, about three or four months ago, and here in North Carolina, he owned his tour. It was. And it’s just blows me away that someone so smart can fill an auditorium up and half to half of us don’t know a clue what he’s saying half the time, but we still just,

51:31 Ryan Michler
they’re there.

Right. ? Yeah. It’s pretty amazing. He’s done an amazing job. Love it. Love it. So

51:37 Chris Grainger
the, the last question for you Ryan, and we’ll let you go. So man, what’s one thing that you hope the men listening out here learn from the

51:44 Ryan Michler
masculinity manifest? I would say we hit on it a little bit, but that it’s not enough just to be male, that we have to step into mailings, that we have to learn what makes us tick.

That we have to learn what we can use for good and bad, and that we can be very aware of that and not be intimidated by it. Not let other people I intimidate us. Mm-hmm. , um, or cause us to shirk our responsibilities and duties, but that we really step up as. We learn how to harness all of those things.

Even the so-called negative characteristics like violence, dominance, competitive stoicism, aggression, vigilance, honesty, uh, self respect, these things that I talked about, right? And we, we harness them, we utilize, they’re tools. They’re sharp, they’re powerful, they’re dangerous, but we use these tools for productive outcomes for other people.

52:32 Chris Grainger
I love it. Where do you want ’em to go to get a copy of

52:35 Ryan Michler
the book at? Um, Amazon is probably best. Okay. And if you do, please leave a review, like buy the. Wait till you get it. Read it at least to the point where you feel comfortable leaving a review. Cuz I want everybody to leave honest reviews. So read the book or read a couple of chapter where wherever you feel comfortable reading it, leaving an honest review, um, that goes a really long way.

Okay. We were number 780 something, 5 86 in all of books on Amazon the other day. So I think we can break the top 100 if we all get. That

53:05 Chris Grainger
is awesome. That is awesome. And, and you’re most active on Instagram, right? So we’ll make sure we put that link there. Instagram, okay. Yeah. Awesome. Anything else you’d like to share with the, the listeners out there?

Align within us

53:15 Ryan Michler
today, brother? No, I just appreciate the opportunity. I enjoy our conversations and thanks for having me back on. Thank you so much, Ryan, man. I

53:22 Chris Grainger
hope you have a blessed day and best to you, Order of man and cannot wait for the Masculinity manifesto to get into hands of so many guys out there and the feedback you’ll get and the the impact that you’re gonna make in our lives.

So thank you so much. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it.

Outside of God’s word, what should you be reading to grow as a Christian leader? It can be daunting to see all the options available these days to help bring you some sanity to your search. We compile all of our featured books of the week so you can make wise choices and strengthen your mind. The topics range from health, wealth, and self, so there’s something there for all you guys.

Whether you’re looking for books for yourself or maybe you’re researching ideas for other men, this is gonna be a resource that brings you value to check out the line with end.us/book to see what would serve you the best right now, and start sharpening your mind to be that leader your predestine to be.

That’s the line with then.us for slash book to learn more.

Ryan’s just an awesome guy. Just an awesome man. We, we, we’ve really enjoyed working with him twice now and, you know, just the way he, uh, off camera, just the, the way, the respect he has, he’s just what it takes to be a man. Follow Ryan. He’s really doing a great job of leading teaching, leading by example, being vulnerable Again, the Order Man podcast.

Really enjoy that and I pray you got something out of this conversation today. Rendering myself obs. That’s a tough thing to think about. You know, for me as a man, got, you know, three kids, prayerfully, One more here in about a month, guys. Uh, the thought of rendering myself obviously is not something I really thought about signing up for when I signed up to be a dad, right?

But this is where we grow. This is how we grow as men. So conversations like this are what makes it different. So guys, I, I encourage you to share this with other brothers out there. Let ’em know about this conversation, how it helped. Just send a text message. Just, Hey, you can actually just go click on the three little buttons, share this episode, send a text message.

Maybe send it to your men’s group. Maybe just send it to your best friend or your brother, and let’s say, Hey, check out what these two guys are talking about. There’s value here. If you, if you’re liking it, give us a rating and review that makes all the difference in the world. Go to the new website, Align with N us.

It’s not a new url, but it is a new website. We’ve redesigned it guys, but we wanna serve you better. You’re gonna find that website a link to join our community. That’s where we need you at. We need you in our community. So ultimately we can connect with you. We can have conversations. You can see our events.

We’re having lion lunches, we’re having bible studies. We’re having all different types of, of ways to connect as men. The form works great. We’re not in Facebook or anything like that. So we, we can, we can speak freely and just be real, be vulnerable, and just help be the iron that sharpens the iron. The guys, again, go check out the lion within.us to find all our resources when you’ll, you’ll find there as well our courses, our blogs, all the content.

Maybe you wanna get you ahead or a shirt or something like that. Maybe just wanna donate and support the. You can do all that right there at the line within us, because I hope you come back on for our fun Friday, ask some tips and, and here’s a, a little bit of a preview. The tips came from Ryan. Okay. I pulled a lot of the tips that I got out on Masculinity manifesto, and I put, I put those in as our, our Fun Friday tips just to, to pay you how much to him.

The, the opportunity he gave gave here me here at the line within us to serve him with this, with this new book. So there’s gonna be some really interesting tips. Hope to see you back here on Friday. Have a great day. Get after it, and unleash the lion within.