00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders their predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys. It is your meet episode of the week, and you are not gonna be disappointed in this one, fellas, I’m just, I’m just, I’m just gonna warn you, buckle up, settle in.

This is gonna be a really great conversation and you know, before we jump into too much further, you know how we start every episode, scripture, everything is gonna be on God’s word for the line with Dennis. So even conversations like we have today. So let’s start off with Proverbs three, verse three. Okay.

Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck, write them on a tablet of your heart. Guys, I unpacked that one on a spiritual kickoff. If you missed it, go check it out. I really took, took some some time to explain. Love and faithfulness, what that really looks like, particularly in, within the confines of marriage, okay?

The covenant that you are here, you’ve entered into, and then how binding them and has a tablet on your heart. What does that actually mean for you? Okay. Now, today, this episode, you guys clicked on it for reason cause we’re gonna be talking about responsive versus spontaneous desire. We’re gonna be digging into to what does a Christian, a healthy Christian sex life look like?

What, what can we do to add intimacy into our sex life? Why aren’t churches providing resources or, or talking about sex? Why is it, Why is it just something was just not discussed? We’re gonna discuss all of it. So you’re in a good, you’re in a good place. I promise you guys, this is gonna be a powerful conversation.

I had to pray a lot about this one because I knew this was gonna be a sensitive issue for a lot of, for a lot of guys. But I’m gonna tell you what, this is one you need to share with your wife. Listen to this conversation together, The resource that we give you at the end, go get the resource. I, I’m, I’m just gonna tell you that right now.

I’m not gonna tell you what it is. Gotta listen. But go get the resource. Cause I promise you, if you take action and utilize the resource that we talk about, it will dramatically improve your connection with your wife. Your bedroom’s gonna be a lot more fun. Place to go, you guys. All this, all the stuff we talk about today is within God’s word because God gave us sex and he has blessed us.

We just need to actually dig into the word, understand what it, what he’s telling us, and then apply it to our life. And again, what’s line within us is all about simplifying and applying scripture. So my guest today guys is, is jd. He’s a husband of one wife, Okay? Father to five kids, okay? He’s passionate about helping people have intimate and amazing marriages where he believes God intends us to have.

Okay? He blogs and podcasts at, at uncovering intimacy.com. So guys can go check it out again, show notes, you’ll be able to connect with jd. He has a wonderful podcast where he’s known for asking and answering the difficult questions that nobody else wants to touch. , when I was a 10 foot pole, jd, he’s gonna talk about him, or, and he’s really interested in the, in the areas that were, uh, Christianity in sexuality intersect.

So that’s kind of his niche. That’s his specialty, guys. So guys, I promise you, this is a powerful conversation if I can hold you back anymore. So grab you a notepad, you know, sit down with your wife, go take a walk, throw this one on, listen to it together, and prepared to have a a, a really great. Connection on a better understanding of what, of what responsive versus spontaneous desire could look like in your marriage.

Enjoy it guys.

Jd, welcome to the Line Within Us. How you doing today?

03:56 Jay Dee
I’m doing great.

03:57 Chris Grainger
How are you? I’m doing great man. It is beautiful day in North Carolina and it’s a little hot, but I think it’s hot where you’re at too, which you were just talking

04:04 Jay Dee
about, right? Oh yeah. It’s a sunny day here in Saskatchewan. .

04:08 Chris Grainger
I hear you man.

I hear you. Well look, our listeners, they just heard me give a bio, but again, they’re used to Chris rambling his mouth and most of ’em don’t listen to the first part anyway, so man, don’t you give them a little bit about, a little bit about who you are, you know, your background cuz that’ll help set the stage about we’re getting ready to talk to talk about today.

04:25 Jay Dee
Yeah, so I’m, uh, a father of five kids, ages seven to 16. So, uh, we’ve been through the whole gamut of everything, uh, so far. Uh, At adult age is coming up soon. Yeah. My oldest just got her first job, so that’s been an exciting new milestone for us.

04:42 Chris Grainger
Oh, that’s cool, man. Okay. Yeah.

04:45 Jay Dee
Uh, I’ve been married for 21 years now.

What we year we in? Yeah. 21, uh, as of May. And we’ve had our ups and downs and, uh, particularly in their first part, our first seven years were, uh, rough. Mm-hmm. , like really rough. Uh, you know, we, we kind of joke around in Christianity that, you know, you can’t get divorced, but, uh, murder, suicide sometimes seems right.

I don’t, it got quite that bad, but, uh, you know, it, it’s hard when you’re in, uh, like a strict kind of conservative upbringing and you start having problems and there’s no one to go to. Mm-hmm. , especially when your problems resolve around intimacy. Mm-hmm. . So once we started kind of fixing things, that’s, that’s kind of where I started up and, uh, started a blog, uh, because we started fixing things on our own and I thought, Man, more people should know about this.

Mm-hmm. . Um, so then all of a sudden I started becoming a, a blogger and then, uh, a podcaster and then people started asking me to do coaching. So I went and got a diploma in life coaching and it’s just kind of gone from there. And that is awesome. That’s a better about me. I, I, at the end of the day, I like solving problems.

So I’m a software engineer during my day job, I, I try to fix marriages at, at night and, uh, we just bought an acreage, so I’ve been running around the property trying to fix all the problems there. And , at the end of the day, if I can solve a problem, I’m happy. I don’t care what the problem is. I hear you.

06:13 Chris Grainger
I hear you.

Well, I mean, you’re doing some wonderful things cuz your podcast uncovering intimacy. I mean, you, you guys, you drop tremendous information value out there for so many of your listeners and we make sure we’ll sync all that up. Uh, for listeners out there in the show notes, man, but when you said the word intimacy, For so many Christian couples that that’s a, that’s a fuzzy word.

That’s not something we talk about a lot, man. How, how do you actually define that word, intimacy?

06:39 Jay Dee
Oh, that’s a really good question. I’m not sure I actually ever put out a, a definition of what intimacy means, but, um, for us, uh, I look at it as a holistic thing, so it, Okay. A lot of people tend to come to white blog and podcasting everything, asking questions about sex, because when they think of intimacy, that’s the first thing they think about.

A lot of times when I start coaching clients, they say, Oh, you know, our marriage is good, but except for sex. And the more and more we dig into it, the more we realize that no sex isn’t the problem. Usually it’s just a symptom of a much larger problem of overall intimacy. So lot of intimacy. Yeah. It extends into your bedroom, but it’s also like your friendship together and you doing life together and, um, caring for each other.

Um, usually when I’m coaching people, we start off with attitudes first and then communication and then down the road, Okay, well we’ll get to sex, don’t worry. Mm-hmm. , fix that too. But we’re not gonna fix that at all without a foundation of you guys actually have to like each other first .

07:40 Chris Grainger
Right. That’s foundational.

Right.

07:42 Jay Dee
Yeah. So I would say that intimacy is kind of like that, that holistic, you know, of like being with someone and being all in. You’re there day in and day out, not just when they get to the bedroom. Um, but you’re doing that like life together. Right. I think that’s the best part. You know, I get to spend all day every day with my best friend and she may not be in the room with me, she’s off doing her own things or everything else, but we’re constantly checking in.

Uh, like there’s not an hour that goes by that there’s probably not a Facebook message or something like that between the two of us. Right, right. Cause there’s just, there’s always something coming up and we, we just like to be together. Yeah.

08:25 Chris Grainger
That’s wonderful. I love that. I love that holistic approach to it too.

You know, and I told, and I kind of prepped the guys on Monday’s spiritual kickoff jd, that this was gonna be a conversation that we haven’t touched about, touched at, at all with the line within us. We’re gonna be talking about, you know, we’re gonna get all up in your business in the bedroom. So , you know, eventually, I think, I think we got a lot of guys tuning into this one.

And, and I know one thing you talked about when, cuz you kind of pulled your community before we got together and your community kept coming back with. Responsive versus spontaneous desire. And for me, I know you, you got me intrigued. You got me curious. So won’t you unpack what that actually is and, and, and, and how you go about, uh, helping Christian couples

09:06 Jay Dee
with this?

Yeah, so we probably, the, that’s one of the biggest topics that, uh, people find was life changing to them because we hear all this stuff about, you know, men are like waffles and women are like spaghetti. And women are like, you know, uh, slow cookers and men are like microwaves. Uh, but it doesn’t really, it doesn’t encapsulate everything.

And it, in a lot of cases, it actually hurts things a lot more because the expectation is like, Oh, well, if men are microwaves and women are slow cookers, then we operate basically the same way. We still gonna heat the food up. It just takes a little bit longer. And a lot of cases that’s not, that’s not true at all.

Um, so one of these, uh, Kind of models. Mm-hmm. that I found was this spontaneous versus responsive desire model, and it’s a really good one to explain it. There are lots of models out there that people have, and some of them are more or less complicated. This one’s pretty simple and it, I, I find it explains things really well.

So we’ll start off by saying, you know, uh, sex drives are, a lot of people just think, Oh, you’re turned on or you’re not turned on. Uh, and I prefer to think of it more like, you know, it’s more like a car that you have a gas pedal and a brake pedal. Okay. So, uh, and for guys, usually they’re, they’re gas pedals usually pretty touchy, you know, Uh, you just put your foot on it and it’s off to the races.

Right. For women, it tends to be a case. It’s not always the case, uh, but it tends to be that their brake pedal is the one that’s a little more touchy. And so a lot of times when. Husbands and wives are having problems in the bedroom, especially dealing with arousal and libido and sex drives and everything.

You know, most of the time the guys are thinking, Oh, well all I have to do is get her to push down on that gas pedal harder. Mm-hmm. . And a lot of times I try to show them that hey, it, it doesn’t matter how hard you hit that gas pedal, if she’s stomping on the brakes, you know, if you got the parking brake on and she’s leaning on that brake, it, it’s not gonna go anywhere.

All you’re just gonna do is make a lot of smoke. Right. Uh, That’s kind of, I wanted to say that just to kind of frame this idea of, you know, uh, there, there’s something that’s gonna hold you back. Um, some people call them like a sexual inhibitor inhibitor system. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And those are good, they’re proper things.

They’re the things that stop you from having sex in the middle of church just cuz you get turned on. You know, you, you don’t, you don’t want your sex drive to be outta control. Brakes are a very good thing. Right. And then the gas pedal is also very important. There are times when it’s good to have that and to be able to hit the gas and go mm-hmm.

and understanding that those are both good systems, uh, but maybe we, sometimes we gotta figure out what exactly are hitting those systems. Mm-hmm. . So that, that kinda leads into this discussion of responsive and spontaneous desire. So if you can think of the spontaneous ones as the ones that have a very touchy gas pedal and almost no brake pedal, you know, They’re the ones that, you know, a stiff breeze can come along and all of a sudden they’re like, Oh, I’m turned on.

You know, that, that’s that idea of spontaneous it, it happens so easily and so frequently that you don’t even know why it happened anymore. And this tends to happen a lot in guys because they say that’s agath thing. Right? Yeah. Well, you know, testosterone very much drives that, uh, which have a lot more of mm-hmm.

Um, there are definitely some women who have spontaneous desire as well, but it’s a much lower percentage of the population. Um, so I, I do want to say that in, in about, you know, a quarter to a third of marriages, the wives actually have the higher sex drive than the husbands. So it does happen. Uh, but that’s a whole different challenge, and it’s not the ones that most people complain about.

Um, okay. But if you’re one of those people out there that has that dynamic, you’re not weird. It, it does happen. We’re just not talking about that one today. Right. All right. So yeah, spontaneous desire ones are the ones that ha to have a touchy gas pedal. Maybe light on the, on the brake pedal. The responsive desire ones tend to be the other way around.

You know, uh, they’re, they’re gonna lean a lot more on the brake pedal, a lot more cautious. Uh, that gas pedal’s gonna take a lot more to push down on it cuz you know, that sensor’s not so good maybe. And so a lot of times, you know, husbands will do this thing where like, they’ll ask their wives, Hey, are you in the mood?

And if they have a responsive desire, you know, they’re, they’re not gonna be in the mood just randomly. Uh, if you’re gonna wait for her to randomly be in the move, you’re gonna be waiting a long time. Uh, maybe forever. And I know this because for the first seven years of our marriage, that was, that was our modus opera end.

I, you know, that’s the way we went about things. Oh, I’m in the mood. Are you in the mood? No. Okay. We don’t have sex. I’m in the mood. Are you in the mood? No. Okay. We don’t have sex. Uh, because everything that we see in movies and media and everything are, Oh wait for your wife, you know, the wife should lead this thing.

You know, it’s the wife that has to be in the mood and. This trips up a lot of people because for a lot of marriages, you know, the wife is really in the mood up until the point that she gets married and then all of a sudden life changes and her circumstance changes. The context changes start having kids and all these things pile on that break pedal, right?

Right. And so like responsibilities create stress. Stress creates a hormone called cortisol. Cortisol dampens, the effectiveness of dopamine and dopamine is what you need to get kind of turned on. And so, uh, I see this a lot, especially in mothers of young children, that they just, they say like, I don’t know how to get turned on anymore.

It doesn’t, something I do works, I don’t spontaneously get aroused and. , um, they’re just waiting around for a time that something magicals gonna happen. The stars are gonna align and all the planets and everything, and all of a sudden they’re gonna be in the mood at the same time that their husband is.

Yeah. And that, that leads people to a lot of what we call dead bedrooms. You know, it’s just, there’s nothing happening behind closed doors because they’re waiting for this magical thing to happen that’s just potentially not gonna happen until maybe the kids move out. And hopefully you remember that you’re still married.

Right. But we call it responsive desire because, uh, one of the ways that you can start to increase this sex driver libido or like get them into mood is when for women, sexual context is a big thing. So they’re not gonna be in the mood if you’re randomly just walk up during the kitchen and go, Hey, are you in the mood?

The answer’s gonna be no. But, uh, you know, if you’re, if you’re at a romantic night out and you’re doing all these things and you’re talking together and you’re having fun, well that’s a different context now. Mm-hmm. and context is very, very important to women. Um, what’s interesting though is that, uh, and this gets a little dangerous to say in today’s society, is that arousal doesn’t always have to come before things get started.

You know, a lot of wives, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve heard from them and they talk to me and they say, you know, at the beginning, uh, I’ve had to learn to change. Not to ask, am I in the mood, but am I willing to be in the mood? Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so when they get, they get to bed and it’s not a question of, Oh, do I want to have sex tonight?

It’s more, Do I think I could have sex tonight? Cause once they get started, then they find, oh, their body in their mind will catch up because all of a sudden they’re in a context that’s sexual and then all their systems wake up and. Everything in our society will scream at you that this is wrong, this is not consent, or this is, you know, you’re pushing or whatever.

And I’m not suggesting that you push this on your wife, but if you guys can have a discussion about, you know, there’s a difference between desire and being willing to be in the mood. Um, Right. The wives, I learn that and have a responsive desire, end up enjoying sex. They have mm-hmm. , you know, a good sex life.

Um, but they don’t, they don’t look back at it anymore and say, Oh, well am am I in the mood now? Because the answer’s still gonna be no. Uh, Right. One of the most infuriating things that I hear from a lot of guys and from wives is that, you know, for whatever reason, uh, the guy will initiate sex and the white will say, Well, you know, I’m not in the mood, but it’s been a while, so maybe I feel guilty or outta duty, or, Well, we should.

And then afterwards they both have lots of fun orgasms all around. And then they’re lying there in bed and she says, Why don’t we do this more often? , Right. And the guy is just enraged by this almost because it’s like, well, it’s not because of me. Like I I, well, anytime, anytime day or night, you call me off, we’re good to go.

Um, and I’ve heard that from so many husbands and wives, and even the wives don’t even know why, because they don’t understand always that they have this responsive desire that once they get into it, once they get aroused, then yeah, they’re gonna enjoy themselves. And sex just keeps getting better. The more often you have it, but if you’re not having sex very frequently, you know, it, it gets even harder and harder to get into that mood.

And then all of a sudden you have sex and it’s good, and you’re like, Well, why don’t we do this more often? Well, right. The reason is you have, you have a mindset that tells you you shouldn’t have sex unless you’re in the mood. Mm-hmm. rather than saying, Sex will get me in the mood. Mm-hmm. , that’s wonderful.

I,

18:32 Chris Grainger
I, I, There’s a few things we’re going on unpack here, guys will be right back.

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Now jd you, you, you talked about, you know, that mindset and the willingness and I’m, I’m so glad you went there cuz I don’t think, you know, we’re not going hide behind the, the, the soft stuff. We need to, we need to talk about the hard things here on the line within, and I’m just gonna go ahead and talk about me and my wife now.

We have a, a one one year old, she’s pregnant right now, we’re doing November. So, you know, a lot of things from a, from a, um, you know, hormone standpoint are just, they’re all over the place, right? We we’re tired. . Yeah, she’s, she’s really tired, but she’s actually, you know, you so, it’s so ironic and I guys, this was not stage that you said the willingness thing because that we’ve had to start implementing that and you know, it’s not because if we, if we’re gonna try to align a time or we’re both, you know, in that responses, staying ready to go in the mood, like it just wouldn’t happen.

So we have to both be willing and, and, and be put ourselves out there and just have that vulnerable conversation. And then to your point, usually well. Yeah, 10 times outta 10 at the, when it’s all said and done, it’s like, we need to do this more often. Right. I mean, just, but just having that willingness to, to, to be vulnerable to the other person and be like, You know what, I’m really not into it that much right now, but let’s go.

And then like you said, the mind does catch up. So I’m so glad you went there cuz I think that needs to be an encouragement. There’s a lot of guys out there, uh, and hopefully they’re wives that they’re gonna listen to this episode as well to just lean into that willingness and to see where it goes. Yeah.

21:02 Jay Dee
And you know, we know this in other parts of our life, you know, we know, Oh, you want to go to the gym? No, I don’t want to go to the gym. Will, if I go to the gym, Yeah I will. Hey, do you wanna go for a walk? No, I don’t will. I enjoy the walk. Probably last night we went to go visit a hobby farm down the road and like half of my kids were like, I don’t want to go.

Like, this is gonna be boring. It’s gonna be dull. They, they all went well. We forced them to go and they all had a blast. They were so happy they, it went And, you know, if you have kids, you know this and sometimes you have to force your kids to have. Right,

21:33 Chris Grainger
because mandatory fun. I always say, I say it all the time.

Mandatory fun starts right now and then like 20 minutes into it, they’re like, you know, jumping around. They forgot all about being forced to into it. Right? Yeah.

21:44 Jay Dee
And, and we do it in church, like in our Christian walk too. Uh, I know I probably should pray. Do I feel like praying right now? Probably not. Am I gonna feel closer to God afterwards?

Yeah. Well, so why is it with fun with exercise with God? We’ve got this idea that, oh yeah. You know, that willingness is more important than the desire sometimes in the moment and sex, we throw that all out the window and go, No, no, no. That willing, that desire has to come first. You know, it’s crazy.

22:11 Chris Grainger
I mean, it’s counterintuitive to what you thinking about and, and as you just said, you brought up church.

I am curious cause we, I definitely wanna dig into that too, a little bit with you as well. Cause church is, you know, I’ve grown up in, in a church and, and been a part of several different congregations and this is a, you know, topic when you talk about sex and particularly anything about spontaneous or responsive desire.

Never, never talked about, I mean, we just, it is nothing. It’s just, it’s just shunned. So, you know, while our church is not talking about sex, and especially within the, the covenant of marriage, man, what can we be doing differently to, to shine a light on the beautiful, uh, thing that God has designed and given us?

22:49 Jay Dee
Yeah. You know, I, I preached once a sermon in church. Uh, I’m not a pastor, but I, I get to preach every once in a while and okay, I, I preach a sermon on how we need to start talking about sex more. And right before the sermon, you know, people were coming into church and then they’re, they’re looking at the bulletin and then a whole bunch, they saw that topic.

Oh yeah. A whole bunch of wi when, immediately to my wife and went, You need to tell your husband to get all the kids out of the church before he preaches. And she, my wife Drew, had said, I’m not telling my husband any such thing like that, .

23:21 Chris Grainger
Yeah, I bet that was a, uh, puckering moment when they saw that bulletin

And

23:26 Jay Dee
thankfully it was kind of one of these other moments that like all the kids stayed in, they were all listening. Uh, I, I kept it pg you know, I just, we need to talk about these things cuz your kids are gonna learn it from the world, uh, if they don’t learn it from us. That’s right. Um, and that, that was the main thrust of the talk.

But by the end of it, all these wives came again afterwards and said, No, it was good to keep the kids in. That was, that was great. And you know, but we, when people, when you give people a space to talk about this stuff, there is, there is an appetite for it, there’s a need for it. Um, but they don’t feel safe in our churches and that’s a terrible thing.

Right. You know, we have a God who created sex before sin entered the world and then called it very good and not just very good. Mm-hmm. , like the word he uses mi was like, it’s functional and aesthetically pleasing. That that’s what, what God says in hero. And. You know, I don’t know why we’ve somehow messed this up to be like, Oh no, we can’t talk about that.

This thing that God created, everything else is, is fair game. Mm-hmm. . And so we get this like perfect storm of, you know, you get bad teachings in the church sometimes, or a lack of teaching. So that like sets you up to fail from the beginning. And then you have this stigma that, you know, if you actually enjoy it, then there’s something wrong with you.

Because we kind of get taught that sex is a sin, you know, is dirty, right? So save it for the person you love and, uh, . And then we have this fear of discussing it so that you know, then when things inevitably go wrong, because they will in every marriage at some point, uh, you can’t get the sport that you need.

Right. And. It’s hard. It’s something that myself and a lot of us are struggling to try to change in churches, but it’s hard when even a sermon about, Hey, we need to talk about sex more, gets a whole bunch of people up in arms and saying, Oh, we need to pull the kids out.

25:17 Chris Grainger
Right. This unreal. I’m curious, what, do you remember your sermon?

Like what, where were you preaching out

25:23 Jay Dee
of? Oh, I, I honestly don’t remember. Okay. And I, I, I don’t think it was an exegetical one. It was more of a, Hey, this is a commentary on our Christian society and how we need to fix things. Ah. Cause this is not following what we see in the Bible and the Bible. They, they’re not scared to talk about sex in the Bible.

Uh, Right. If you read a lot of it, like, they’re very open and plain about a lot of things. Mm-hmm. , sometimes it’s couched in different language than we use, but, uh, it’s not shy. Well,

25:53 Chris Grainger
I was just curious cuz the, the only time I’ve ever heard, you know, the, the sex, the confines of marriage, Dating all those areas.

I think there was actually a series. Okay. And guys, I’ll put it in links, uh, for you guys. I’ll try to remember to get to get that in links for you as well in the show notes. But it was from the Church of 1122. My favorite, my personal favorite Pastor, Pastor Jo b Martin. He, he did a series in the Song of Solomon, and I think it was like a 13 part series.

But man, he spent like, I’m thinking a couple months for every Sunday going through, you know, that book, you know, song a song, song, a song. However it’s defined in your Bible. And man, I’d tell you what, he unpacked all the different, um, analogies and the different assemblies and things that, uh, symbolism rather that, that, that, that scriptures actually pointed to and related it to the confines of, of, of a healthy Christian sexual covenant.

Right? I’ve never heard of Pastor do that before, man. I mean, it was, it was unheard of. I’ll tell you one thing, my wife and I, we, we, we thoroughly enjoyed that listening to that s that sermon series together. And it got us talking and seeing more about what God’s word has to actually say about the confines of sex in a healthy Christian marriage.

Because you know what, to your point, he gave it to us before Send, enter the world. It’s beautiful. We should celebrate it. And it, we, it’s not this thing that we should just put on a shelf and only talk about and hush hush and, you know, and be so scared we should be able to openly embrace and talk about this stuff.

Yeah.

27:22 Jay Dee
Uh, my wife and I actually started a small group in our church, uh, and we started going through a book called Intimacy Ignited. And it’s the same thing. It’s, it’s a commentary on Song of Solomon built as a small group study or you can do it with your spouse. Nice. So we got four couples together and just sat around in our living room and you know, the first week was, Yeah.

You know, these are your friends and your elders and your church kind thing. And like Right. Some of them you know really well and some of them, you know, not so well and you realize, yeah, we’re, we’re gonna be talking about sex. And it, it was kind of weird. Uh, this was still when I was just starting up my blog, so it wasn’t quite as, uh, uh, now I’ll talk about anything like, you know, my, my too much information line has, has disappeared cuz the questions I get are, are they would make everyone blush, I think.

Uh, yeah. But, uh, it, after, after two or three weeks, it was fantastic. You know, we were just having open, honest discussions and learning. It was fantastic. And from that I learned like, no, we need, we really need to talk about this stuff because there are a lot of questions and confusion and it’s hurting a lot of people, right?

I

28:30 Chris Grainger
mean, and it’s hurting a lot of Christian couples. I mean, they, they go into their marriage. They don’t understand if they run into a snag in the bedroom, they run into an issue they don’t know. They don’t know where to go to seek truth, to get really, you know, biblical guidance, uh, to help them come along.

And, I mean, so I mean, to your point, I think you knows, you know, um, Bible studies like that, they need to be the norm. I mean, as as awkward as it is and as uncomfortable as it may make you feel, you may clammy, you may get sweaty. You gotta get over that because there is so much truth in God’s word. And you don’t think he wants your bedroom too.

I mean, so many guys out there think jd, maybe you tell me if I’m wrong, man. Like, they’ll tie, they’ll do their serving at church, you know, they’ll, they’ll make sure that, you know, they’re not, hopefully they’re not looking at porn and things like that. They’re, they’re trying to do the right things, but they don’t want to give God the bedroom.

Yeah. Like the bedroom is mine, bro. Like, . You, you, you don’t, I don’t, I don’t need you in here. And I think that’s where the mindset’s gotta start shifting.

29:32 Jay Dee
I agree. I think a lot of, a lot of couples, even like, they don’t pray together as soon as they get into the bedroom. It’s like, God, luck gets locked outside of the door.

Right? And you know, one of the things that probably was one of the largest shifts in our marriage is we started praying together every night. And it doesn’t matter if we have pajamas on or if we were all just sweaty from having sex, we’re still gonna pray before we go to sleep. Right. And, and that, that changes your mindset a bit.

You know,

29:56 Chris Grainger
man, I had, I had a guy in our Bible study, uh, for the line with Dennis, and the challenge that week was to pray with your wife and before, before you go to sleep. So I, I do it with my wife too, man. And the simple question is, how can I pray for you? That’s why I ask her this every night. I mean, and it always varies.

It changes, you know, it could be prayer request for people in her life. It could be prayer request for work. It could be like our marriage, it could be the kids. I mean, from day to day, you know, it’s up and down and goes all over the place. But that has been such a intimate connection for us, man. In the same way, you know, whether we’re in pajamas or we just, just having some fun, we’re gonna pray.

We’re just, we’re going to pray together because that, that we need God to in our bedroom. He’s, if he’s not in there, there’s so, why is he gonna be anywhere else? I mean, we gotta make sure we’re giving it all to him and, and going to him for guidance. I love that you brought that up. Cause I think too many guys, I actually had a guy, man, when I brought that up.

I know. I was telling that story now, man. He’s a missionary. Okay. I brought this up about praying with your wife homeboy turned white. I mean, he was like sweating. He’s like, I don’t know if I can do that, Chris. I’m like, Brother, like you’re, you said you safe. He, you shared a gospel for a living, but, and this is like your spouse, like this should be the natural thing to do.

But it’s just so intimidating to some guys because they make it out to be this big thing and it’s like, bro, just ask her and then just do it.

31:22 Jay Dee
Yeah. I, I think pastors in particular have a very unique. Struggle in this area where they literally, like, we feel like we can’t go anywhere. They often cannot go anywhere.

Uh, I’ve talking to quite a few pa I get quite a few emails from pastors because they have nowhere else to go. Uh, and some of them, some of them are brave enough to go to their, you know, their board of elders in their church or whatever they have, depending on the denomination. And the elders sometimes look back in them and go, Well, you better fix this or else you’re fired.

And that, that is a terrible response. That’s tough, bro. That’s tough. It makes me wanna call up those churches and go, What are you doing over there? Like, what is wrong with you? Unfortunately, I don’t usually know which church it is to give them health, so I just try to help the pastor. Right.

32:05 Chris Grainger
That’s right.

Well, it is just crazy to me to think that we just, we think that that’s an area of our life where, you know, we got it. And that’s the most dangerous words that you guys can be thinking of you if you’re sitting around right now and you thinking, you know what, Chris, I got this, you’re wrong. Yeah. , you gotta give that to God.

Let him guide you. Yeah.

32:23 Jay Dee
And if, if, If people are listening to this and go, Oh, well, I already pray for my wife every night with my wife every night. Great. You know what? Pray before sex. Try that one. Hmm, There you go. And pray for your sex. Okay. So if you wanna be uncomfortable, try that one. I aint lying.

Okay.

32:42 Chris Grainger
Yeah, you just, you just turned it on me, jd. So now I gotta challenge myself now. So how does that look? So we’re praying, you’re actually praying for the sex that we’re getting ready to have. Yeah.

32:52 Jay Dee
Because like every couple’s run across struggle sometimes, you know? Mm-hmm. , one of you is having trouble having an orgasm or trouble with Ed or whatever you can pray about that.

You can pray about. Hey. Let our kids sleep so they don’t interrupt us. You know, ? Mm-hmm. . Right? There’s nothing, there’s nothing wrong with that. .

33:09 Chris Grainger
Right? Right. Please let the baby sleep for the next hour. Right. You know? Yeah. , or for some of you guys five minutes. I just can, but either way, let the baby sleep.

Right. You know, it’s just so we can have some time together. Yeah. That’s awesome, man. Let’s tell you what, let’s take a quick break. We’ll be right back guys.

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So JD man, I’m, I’m curious, you, you talked about it earlier about, you know, guys talk about the attitudes and the communication, and I’m curious from your standpoint, cause I hear communication a lot, period then cause a lot of time with, with the lion within us, we’re talking to guys about marriage now we, obviously the bedrooms a part of that, but you know, overall we hear communication sucks.

Like we gotta have better communication. So, you know, where does that communication start breaking down in terms of intimacy from what you’ve seen? And then how can we start being proactive as man listening to actually address it and change and ma you know, change the ties moving forward?

34:47 Jay Dee
Um, I, I’d actually start with the attitudes first.

Start there first. Okay. Okay. Usually the biggest thing that I get with couples that I have to deal with first is that they have this battle mentality, you know, or this battle, battle, you know, or like a zero sum game in their marriage. You know, the idea that, well, if you win, that means I lose. And if I win, that means you lose.

So we’re always trying to compromise, you know, maybe both of us lose a little bit kind of thing because God forbid both of you be winners. Mm-hmm. , I don’t, I don’t know why that’s not entered the mindset at some point, right? So I instead like, uh, I try to get people to, to understand that first, hey, your spouse actually loves you more.

Like more than likely, right? Every once in a while I get one that’s like, no, they actually hate each other. And then I send them the therapist cause that’s the code. And I only work with people that actually like each other. That’s right. . So the first assumption is that you’re spouse loves you and they’re doing their best to show you that they may not be doing a good job of it.

They may miss, and sometimes their emotions might get in the way, but Right. If you ask them, Do you love me? The answer should be yes. Right, Right, right. And, and I’d say 99% of the cases or more, that’s, that’s the case. Um, so then whenever you are hurt or they said something that upset you, there’s a, you have to think instead, not why did they hurt me, but why was I hurt by this?

You know, Did, did I actually hear what I thought I heard? You know, did they say what they actually intended to say? Because a lot of times that’s where you get into those miscommunications. Mm-hmm. . But if you don’t start with this idea that, Oh, they actually love me, then you don’t even have a chance to second guess, you know, Well, what did I hear?

Like, did I hear what I thought I heard or did I hear something else? Right. Right. Because my wife might say something like, Hey, go look in the living room. And I might hear, Well, why don’t you go look in the living room, You idiot. And she didn’t say that . Right? Sure. But I might hear that. Yeah. And, uh, or I, I, I think there’s a tone there that she didn’t intend mm-hmm.

or, you know, something like that, you know, or one of us forgets to do something and, you know, if you don’t like each other or you don’t assume that you love each other, your first thought is, Oh, well they did this to sabotage me. Right. Or they’re trying to hurt me, or doing something like that. So the, the first thing is that attitude of, you know, assume that your spouse loves you and that they’re trying to show you that.

And then that’s great. When it fails, then start to ask questions about that. You know, what did you mean when you say that, uh, I heard this. Is that what you meant to say? Right. And vice versa, when you see that they get hurt because you will hurt your spouse. Guaranteed, Yes. A lot of the time. Uh, ask them, you know, What did I do that hurt you?

You know, what did you hear when I say that? Because a lot of times you don’t mean to hurt them. , uh, but they heard something maybe you didn’t say or you said something you didn’t mean to say. Right.

37:55 Chris Grainger
And so many times they get the worst version of us, man. I mean, if, think about it, usually they, you, you put all your work into the work, your career, your kids, then a lot of times your, your spouse gets the leftovers.

And a lot of times that’s just not the, uh, the best version of you, you know? Yeah.

38:10 Jay Dee
Uh, I, I think that’s sometimes also a function of kind of an unhealthy marriage. You know, when, when we were struggling, you know, I loved to work because it was safe at work, you know, I didn’t have to worry about walking on eggshells.

I didn’t have to worry about feeling hurt or feeling, uh, ignored or, you know, rejected or whatever. Um, so work was, work was a safe place. It was work, but it was. And so, oh, well, uh, you know, I, I have to stay a couple hours to work on this project. Okay, well, whatever. We’ll see you later, I guess, right? That happened a lot.

And then when we started fixing stuff, you know, Well, I, I work seven to three. When that three o’clock happens, it hits, it doesn’t matter if I’m in a meeting or mid project or mid task. I don’t care if it’s for the ceo. Goodbye out the door. This is, this is my time to spend out with my wife. I’m not That’s right.

It’s not

39:02 Chris Grainger
time it

39:05 Jay Dee
Now, if something’s on fire, you know, I’ll stick around and put the fire out kind of thing. I’m, I’m, I’m not a jerk, but my priority is definitely, I would much rather spend time with my wife than, than with my workmates . Amen. Perfect. I mean,

39:19 Chris Grainger
God . And guys, if that statement strikes you as weird, you need to think about where your marriage is, cuz I’m with you, man, jd.

I mean, no matter what work, all the cool things we got going for, for my regular job or to line within us, None of it compares to spending time with Becca and I just, whatever I need to do. Like, and plus, her, her, her, her, uh, love language is quality time. So I know that’s important to her too. And if I can keep that bucket full for her, you know, that’s, to me, that’s just important.

And, but we’re also best friends. I mean, uh, and some days, yeah, we’re better than others so far as communication and liking each other. But we, we, we, we always try to be there for each other, man. So, I mean, if you guys, if you find yourself, you’re, you’re putting in that OT just so you don’t have to come home, probably an opportunity say that you need to look at this to, to make some improvements.

Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, this is one conversation too, JD, that I told you guys, it may get uncomfortable and we’ve, we’ve, we’ve touched on some topics that they may be uncomfortable already. So if they’re not, I know this next one’s gonna get ’em uncomfortable, so I, I know you’re, you’re there though.

So look, let’s just be real. Sometimes you, you’ve been married, maybe been married for a long time. The intimacy can go down. Temperature in the bedroom is just, it’s just not hot. So what are some ways, cause I know you have a really great resource, but I want you to kind of unpack this for some of the guys out there that if, if we don’t have that spice in our marriage, what can we do from a Christian couples to add it back in?

Because I mean, this is a beautiful covenant of, of marriage and sex. What can we do to get that thing re rekindled and fired up and burning? Burning,

40:59 Jay Dee
you know, burning hot? Yeah. I, I think this is especially where I think husbands have to kinda lead, because what I, an interesting dynamic, I, I figured out in the last couple, two or three years is that, you know, husbands are always kind of wanting to push the boundaries of, Hey, hey, what can we do in the bedroom?

You know, they would wanna try new things. Mm-hmm. new positions, new activities, you know, new toys, whatever. And. They’re always the ones that are kind of ex, usually they’re the ones that are excited to try something new, you know, do something different. Mm-hmm. , uh, because, well that, you know, if you’re doing something new and exciting and adventurous, that, you know, raises your dopamine, which again, increases your arousal and everything, so it, you know, it feels good.

It feels like you’re winning at life. Uh, but what I found is that it’s the wives that actually need that more. It’s the women that I find get bored with sex and they don’t always recognize that they’re bored with sex. They just kind of look at sex and go. Maybe, maybe not. Mm-hmm. , uh, the more couples I talk to about this, that they start exploring more and more things.

It’s the wives that start asking their husbands, Hey, can we, can we try that thing again? Because that, that was really good. Yeah. And whereas the husbands have a tendency to wanna go onto, Oh, well, let’s try something new. And they’re like, No, no, no, that that thing was good. Let’s try that one. So it’s the wives that kind of pull back and kind of go, No, I wanna stick to this small repertoire that really works.

But if they always do that, they will never figure out something that might work better. Mm. Whereas the husbands are always pushing to something better and better and better and different. Uh, but if they, if they’re let to ran rampant, then you have to be careful there too. So the right treat and wise play this, this kind of symbiotic role that one of them is holding them back kind of within the boundaries of marriage to make sure they don’t run it off like a freight train.

Uh, and so that you actually do stuff that’s like, this is, this is good and efficient because yeah, sometimes we don’t always have two hours to have fun. Sometimes it needs to be a shorter time and then you, you need to use what works. Uh, . That’s right. Well, there’s also, there’s also times where, yeah, you should have that like play time because, or else you’ll never get to explore.

And if you don’t have enough of that time, you know, one of the problems with having sex infrequently is that every time you have sex, it. Almost critical that you both enjoy yourselves and have an orgasm. Mm-hmm. , you don’t have an opportunity to fail, which means you don’t have an opportunity to explore and Right.

Exploring together, being adventurous together. That’s kind of part of that intimacy, you know, e even aside from it being sex, but just that, you know, that exploring in life, whether it’s trying a new trail on a hike, or trying a new restaurant, or trying a new sex position, you know, those kind of all equate to the same kind of thing.

You’re trying new things together, having new experiences. Right. Just happens to be that sex is really fun. Uh, so that’s a good one to try new things in. That’s right. So yeah, men tend to kinda, they, they, they need, they want that variety because it’s exciting and new and always something new, but it’s the woman I find that benefit the most from that variety.

Yes. Uh, and if they’re not pushed outta that comfort zone, then they kind of get bored. Mm-hmm. . Um, so I, a while ago, people started asking me the same kind of question, you know, how do we spice things up? How do we do things? And I wrote a post month once with like a big Venn diagram of basically saying, Hey, these are your areas for exploration.

You have your circle that you’re comfortable with, You have her circle that she’s comfortable with, and where the overlap is, Hey, across. Let’s do that. Right? So then a few years later, I actually built a resource to help people figuring out what are those things that are within your comfort zone? So I built something called the our sex exploration list, and I scoured everything, asked questions, ran surveys, trying to figure out basically every sexual activity I could think of that fell within a biblical guidelines.

And some of them, people look at it and go, I didn’t even know that was physically possible. , uh, and , I’m like, It is. And some people really like it and I can’t find a Bible verse or principle. Against it. And so, Right, it’s, and some people may disagree with what’s in the list and what’s not in the list. Um, but in general I don’t really get a lot of complaints about people saying, Oh, this is not a fullsome list, or You missed some, Every once in a while someone’s like, Oh, you missed film thing, something.

I’m like, Yep, you’re right. I’ll add that in the next version. Uh, every once in a while somebody surprises me. Not very often, cuz at this point come across almost everything but , uh, and, and it’s so, it’s a worksheet and each spouse goes through this massive list of activities and basically checks off, you know, Yes, I’m, I’m interested in this, or No, I’m not interested this.

Or maybe, I don’t know, or, you know, I’m willing to, if my spouse is interested into it. It’s just kind of one of those willingness things. Cuz some people go, sometimes people check off the maybe and then later realize, Oh, that, that really worked for me. Right,

45:53 Chris Grainger
right.

45:54 Jay Dee
That’s. Um, so yeah, it’s just a big pdf.

You print it off on your own, uh, and then you just kind of hide it in your bedroom and you go through it yourself and then you go through your list together and basically figure out where your matches are. Yeah. And guys, I

46:09 Chris Grainger
mean, I could, I could tell you this, you know, jd, when we connected, um, you know, I got this exploration list and, and we, we were able to sit down and like, this does take some time.

I, what does the average people, what are you hearing? How long does it take ’em to usually

46:21 Jay Dee
go through that jd? Uh, most people don’t do it in a night. They’ll usually do like one, one page a night for like a week kind of thing. . Yeah.

46:27 Chris Grainger
And that’s what Beck and I had to do. We had to really break it down a little bit cuz it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of content guys, but I’ll tell you what you know, and for, to your remark about, you know, you’re getting feedback on stuff that needs to be added.

I don’t know where these guys are coming from because if it’s not on that list, , I don’t believe it exists. Um, guys, it’s going make you probably a little bit uncomfortable. Um, But if you, if you just lean in and be truthful and encourage your wife to do the same, I can tell you for, for my wife and I, it just really, if for anything, it just opened up the conversation and we were able to have a really good conversation around that.

Now we are due with a baby in November, so you do the math to see if it works, guys. But you know, that’s just, that’s just a joke. But it probably didn’t, didn’t go over that well, but I’m just telling you is a great resource that, you know, I’ve never seen anything like it. I can honestly say that and from a Christian standpoint too, because there’s nothing, like you said, there’s nothing that, that, that is outside of God’s word that’s in that, that list.

But it really is designed to bring you together as a couple. And then I just, for us, when, when we had to trade the papers, you know, okay, I’m handed you my, my what I wrote and she hands me hers. Yeah, that’s great. It was a little hesitate. Yeah, it was a little hesitation, but when we did it though, it was like, oh.

Cool. They’re like, Oh, okay. So, I mean, we had a lot of those moments in those conversations that were just part of that man. So yeah. Hats off to you and I think it’s gonna, this will be a, a wonderful resource to help with a tons of Christian couples out there. Yeah. Usually

47:59 Jay Dee
what I get from, from people is that, you know, they hand over the, their list thinking, ah, she’s gonna think I’m a freak.

And then they get their list and they look at it and go, Oh, she’s more of a freak than I thought.

48:08 Chris Grainger
Right? Yeah. I need to go back and edit my scores. That’s right. .

48:12 Jay Dee
So I, I have couples now that, like, I released this quite a few years ago. Uh, I have couples now that every year they will book a weekend at a hotel and take a blank copy of the list with them and redo it.

No kidding. Okay. Preferences and whatever have shifted over the years, and sometimes they don’t like things that they thought they used to and they like things now that they didn’t, and they will spend the whole weekend and just sit down and do that and then explore all the options. That is really cool, man.

And that’s sort like once a year getaway sex education kind of thing.

48:43 Chris Grainger
Hey, I mean, that, that could be if, if you have a a anniversary plan and you’re getting away for your anniversary, what better way to do it every year than to reconnect out from an intimacy level. And this could be the great tool to do that.

That’s wonderful. Guys, we’re gonna take our last break. We’ll be right back.

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So, JD man, we talked about a lot of things. Now this, this exploration list, if you guys are interested in that list, go to the lion within.us and you just put a four slash sex scx and you’ll, you’ll go right, right to JD site and anything you buy, if you put lion as a coupon code, you get 10% off. Highly encourage you guys to get that exploration list, but you have a bunch of other products as well, don’t she jd, that that really serve, uh, Christian couples in a

50:13 Jay Dee
great.

Yeah. Most of them are revolving around this idea of like, how do we, how do we increase sex drives? How do we make sex fun again? Um, so like we, I get a lot of people who they don’t know how to initiate sex. That’s a real struggle. So I, I kind of built a game to help with that. Or they said, Well, sex kind of has gotten boring over while, so I, I built a game mm-hmm.

uh, for that. And a lot of those are just little things to kind of help you out. Uh, they’re not difficult games. They’re easy to play even when you’re, you know, aroused and, you know, uh, you know, when you get aroused, you’re kind of a little drunk almost, uh, . Mm-hmm. because mm-hmm. part of your brain actually shuts down due all the blood flow going other places.

Uh, so , they’re simple to, That’s right. You’re not complicated. Uh, and, and they’re fun. And, uh, a lot of times, you know, people just abandon the game halfway through because while they’ve just gotten to the point that the game’s less fun than what else they could be doing. Uh, Right. And there’s also like a truth or dare game on my site for free, uh, that people can check out too.

That’s cool. It’s the same thing. It’s just kind of like a Fourplay game. Uh, but it helps with that communication too, because it’s, it’s got those truth questions first and they kind of ramp up easier at first, and then they get more and more kind of, uh, intimate and so do the dares. They get, they get more and more intimate until some people, usually people say, Well, we got through two rounds and then, uh, we stopped playing, uh,

Right, right. ,

51:38 Chris Grainger
Well, one thing you guys wanna think about, I mean, seriously, we hear about the, the word boundaries align in our marriages and, you know, obviously there’s boundaries in the bedroom and things like that. But guys, you may be working in a side of a boundary that’s the size of like a tennis court.

But if you could go through a resource like, like jds got here and have this conversation that tennis court may open up to a football field. I mean, you just never know. Or it may be a football field, you need to bring that thing in a little bit, right? Uh, but it’s a great way if you’re wanting to establish healthy boundaries around intimacy.

Inside the confines of your Christian marriage resources like this, you, you, you have to lean in and, and actually do it. You know, because if you’re, if you’re expecting this stuff just to happen, you know, just on its own magically, that’s, that’s not where it’s at. You gotta put in the word just like anything else, like you said earlier about going to the gym, you gotta put in the reps, you gotta put in the work and then you’ll see the results.

Cuz I mean, I don’t want you working in a tennis, in a tennis court if you could have a football field boundary within, uh, the intimacy of your

52:40 Jay Dee
marriage. Yeah. Tennis court’s not so bad. Some people are in squash, Bros. . It’s true. That’s true. That’s absolutely true. You know what? And a lot of the times it’s simply because they never bothered to talk about it.

Right. Uh, I’ve had clients that they, they come to me and say, Hey, we just have a dead bedroom. How do we fix this? And my first question is, Well, have you talked to your spouse about it? Mm-hmm. and. I’m shocked at how many times the answer is just what? No, we never talk about it. Like, Well, that would probably be step number one.

Yeah. Step one. You know, in a lot of cases, you know, that conversation just all of a sudden it turns out the whole thing was a misunderstanding. Right. And I’ve seen couples that have not had sex for 25 years based on a misunderstanding. Right. And they both actually wanted to start it up again, and neither of ’em knew how to because they weren’t talking about it.

So if you, you, we have to learn to talk about these things, these uncomfortable things, you know? Yeah. And, and like your wife is pregnant, there’s a lot of uncomfortable things that happen with pregnancy and with breastfeeding and everything like that. And if you can’t talk about them, then you know your wife’s gonna be kind of suffering through a lot of those things.

That, that’s a terrible thing to do, is to not know what’s going on with your body and then not have anyone else to talk to about it, and to kind of bounce off and go, you know, is this normal? Is this, am I broken? What, what do we do here? , Right. And you know, I, we, we’ve got five kids, so we’ve kind of ran, run the gamut of, you know, we’ve had natural verse and, uh, what are they called?

Upside down burst. Mm-hmm. , I can’t remember the word now. Breach Burst. Breach. Sunnyside breach. Frank Breach. We’ve done C-sections, we’ve done regular births after c-sections. Like we’ve kind of run the gamut of, of, and, and they all come with interesting, new challenges and confusion. And, you know, at this point there’s almost nothing my, my wife could show me on her body and go, Hey, this is weird.

Could you look at this? I’d be like, Yeah, sure, why not? But Right, right. It definitely wasn’t like that at the beginning of our marriage. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s awkward to start these things, but once you start, man, it’s, it’s better. Amen.

54:51 Chris Grainger
Well, this has been very powerful. Now, jd, we always end the line within us, what we call feeding time.

Now this, we’re not, we can park the sex topic for a minute and just this talks a little bit about you, just a fun lightning round, Uh, just four or five questions that, that let our listeners know a little bit about you. So if you’re willing to play, man, we’ll jump in and, and we’ll kind of wrap this up with the feeding time here.

Yeah, let’s go. All right, man. So what, what’s your favorite thing about God? Oh,

55:15 Jay Dee
my favorite thing about God? Yeah. I, I think it, it split between two things. It’s either his sense of humor, uh, I find, I find Jesus in particular is hilarious. Uh, his, his jokes are amazing and, and just like the things that he does, you know, I, I’m amazed that how often he tries to show people that this isn’t about, Oh, you’re blind.

Good. Go get mud from the dirtiest river in the area and stick it on your eyes that that’ll fix it. Oh, there, you know, you need to win a battle. Yeah, let’s get rid of 90% of the people and then fight it with like the smallest team that you have kind of thing. You know, that’s constantly these things that he’s just like, Yeah, let me show you who God is, cuz it’s not you.

That’s right. The way he does that is, is hilarious. Uh, so I, I think it’s either that or his, his, like the logic of everything that has been built, I, I am constantly amazed at just how well everything just fits together and when you think it doesn’t. Uh, you know, there are very few times that he, I would say cheats, you know, and like does a miracle and like sidesteps his own logic kind of thing.

Uh, Right. The vast majority of the stuff that is done in the world is, is based on this massive system of physics and everything. And it, it just, it’s incredible. Is awesome. And between the two of those, I’m not sure which one’s my favorite. Hey, they’re both good.

56:41 Chris Grainger
I love them. I love them now. So that was your favorite thing about God.

What’s your least favorite thing about Satan? Oh,

56:50 Jay Dee
that sometimes you can’t tell if it’s Satan or God. He’s very good at deceiving people. Yeah. Deceit. Yes. Yes. I am amazed how many, you know, sorry, I’m gonna pull back to the topic of sex. I’m amazed how many Christians write me, uh, with things like, you know, they’ll start up a page for Christian swingers and I’m like, I don’t, I don’t think you understand what a Christian is.

If you’re starting up a Christian swinger’s page. And they, they will pull verses, twist them around whoever they need to make them fit whatever lifestyle they want to do. And they are absolutely convinced that they are right with God. And I am the apostate for saying that, No, this is, this is not right.

And I, and sometimes, you know, sometimes you have to step back and go. Am I right? Am I not right? You know? Mm-hmm. , let me go check my Bible because I don’t trust myself. I, I I need to trust my Bible. Uh. Right. Cause man, is he ever deceptive? Yes.

57:47 Chris Grainger
Amen. That’s, that’s the hard part, that’s for sure. So what did you spend too much time doing last year?

Last

57:55 Jay Dee
year? Yep. Probably watching tv. Okay. You know, very honest. There was, there was a lot of times I like sit, I’d be on a project or at something, or I look at the amount of blog posts or podcast. I get out. I’m like, man, I could have done a lot more. But I, I really don’t watch TV unless it’s with my wife.

So it’s kind of a tos up because I’m like, you know, it’s quality time with my wife, but it’s tv so it’s not that good quality.

58:21 Chris Grainger
Right, Right. , So what’s the next two more question. What’s a new habit that you wanna create this.

58:29 Jay Dee
Uh, you know what, as I sit here, uh, behind my computer, I have mounted a, I have a guitar, I have an acoustic guitar, an electric guitar, a bass guitar, a ukulele.

I don’t know how to play any of them. Oh, wow. Okay. I keep meaning to, I, I, like, I can dabble kind of thing. Ukulele, I know a few chords. I can, I can play along a simple song kind of thing, but I. I have these guitars. A lot of them were gifted to me because of like, yeah, I wanna learn how to do this. And I just, I never find the time to do this.

And one of the things I’m hoping for with this move, we moved from Ontario, which has fairly mild winters to Saskatchewan, which has, you know, minus 50 degrees Celsius winters where like nobody goes outside for two weeks. I’m like, well maybe if I’m locked in doors and have nothing to do, maybe I will learn one of these things, , although there is on the wall behind my computer so that I stare at them every day.

And it reminds motivation, baby, you could pick this up, cause way. I like the idea of, you know, playing a guitar in church and like, just being able to yeah, start a sing along and, uh, and yeah, I mean we, we

59:35 Chris Grainger
we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re connected spiritually that way cuz I probably have four or five guitars myself.

I even have a banjo and I can play basic chords, but, you know, I don’t know how to play. So I. I’ve always wanted to, to lean in. I have this desire, So maybe, maybe I’m not moving to, to where you’re at, man, but, uh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna leave that negative 50 up there with you. But, uh, last question, man. What’s one thing that you hope the listeners out there remember from our conversation today?

Oh,

1:00:06 Jay Dee
it’s okay to, to jump into things that are scary. You know, we, these, these things are uncomfortable. Praying with your wife is uncomfortable when you start, and then after that it just kind of become, it almost becomes too comfortable and you have to shake things up again so that it should be uncomfortable, you know?

Mm-hmm. , you know, sex is, it can be uncomfortable. I don’t mean physically. I mean, sometimes physically it can be too, but like being willing to say, Hey, let’s try something new, or, This isn’t working for me, or, What if we did this kind of thing? Those are uncomfortable things to, to ask. You know, starting those questions about communication.

Asking. You know that, that hurt me. Is that what you meant by that kind of thing? Those are uncomfortable things to start and Yep. But we can’t go through life avoiding uncomfortable things. You know? The only way to get to a really good life is to go through that pain almost, you know? Right. It’s that refining that makes our lives better.

We have to be willing to kind of reach our hand out and risk being stabbed in order to grab something. Really good. Amen.

1:01:14 Chris Grainger
Well, jd, this has been wonderful. Where should guys go to connect with you? Obviously we’re gonna sync everything up in the show notes, but do you wanna give ’em a shout out to, like where, where would you point them so they can learn

1:01:23 Jay Dee
more?

Yeah. Uncovering intimacy.com. You can find everything there. There’s like 600 and some odd blog posts. Uh, podcasting. I’m trying to start up more. I’m a little slow at, I think Chris has passed me already in episodes and , but I’m trying to get better at that. Uh, and the podcast on any platform, if you search up Sex Within Marriage, uh, you’ll find it.

Cuz that’s used to be what my website was called. I just kept it the same.

1:01:49 Chris Grainger
I got you. So you kind of broke up there. Just wanna make sure we got that. Where, where do you want to search for the podcast? Sex Within Marriage. Yep. If

1:01:56 Jay Dee
you search for that, you’ll find me on anything. Got it.

1:01:58 Chris Grainger
Got it guys. We’ll, and look s we’ll sync all that up into show notes.

Go there, Check it out. Jd, is there anything else you’d like to share on the line within us Sed today, my friend?

1:02:07 Jay Dee
No, I, I think. Go out there and learn to have really good sex lives. You know that, that would be amazing. We need to show the world that, you know, our Christians know that God created sex and we should be having better sex lives than the people that say that he doesn’t exist.

1:02:22 Chris Grainger
Amen brother. Amen. Jd, this has been a such an honor to have you on. Thank you so much. Thank you for, for being real. We needed this type of conversation today, and it’s just been, it’s been such a, uh, delight to work with you, my

1:02:34 Jay Dee
friend. Uh, likewise.

1:02:38 Chris Grainger
Most men know what it’s like to do life in a vacuum and feel isolated on the journey. We believe every man needs a community to help them become the men they were created to be more than just a website or podcast. We are a community of Christian men who are committed to supporting and encouraging one another on our journey, become the best versions of ourselves.

We are men who have fought the good fight and come out victorious. The lion within us is here to help you stop feeling lost, defeated, and alone. Instead, find community and connection with other men that will help you achieve your goals. Live a life of purpose and be the leader God intends you to be.

Visit the lion within.us to join the new Growing Lion Den community today.

Now guys, you should not be disappointed at this point cause that conversation covered it all. We unpacked the to and guys, we, well again. Well, I told you to start, we were going really touch on the ar, the issues that you probably weren’t expecting. Okay? Now I get it. Some of you guys may think, You know what, Chris, you shouldn’t have gone there.

Well may No, you’re wrong. We should go there because God has designed the covenant of marriage and he gave us sex and this something we should not. Shy away from and run away, or not talk about or think that it’s bad or dirty. No, we gotta get the mindset right first. And like JD talks about, get your attitude right, Get your communication right and then the rest will usually flow right down the line, right?

And we need to understand being uncomfortable is okay. We need to be to just lean into that. If you’re gonna be a lion, you gotta be a leader. And sometimes leaders, you know, well, not sometimes, always leaders gotta go first. So initiate the conversation, have conversation around willingness. Do it in a loving, tactical way, but just be real, be vulnerable, have conversation, and then go get that resource telling you guys this exploration list.

Go get it. The line within.us/sex. And remember, use the code lion. Don’t, do not forget to use that cuz you’ll get 10% off. Okay? Use that for any product that JD has, but that in particular, Maybe you take a little a get a, a romantic getaway for a weekend. Take this list with you two copies and make that your exercise that you do together and just let that fuel the conversation.

Okay? So the question of the week, guys, where does scripture and intimacy cross path? Think about that. Scripture and intimacy. They cross path a lot. Are we thinking about it? Are we actually believing it? And then how can we start walking that out in our life? Okay, so guys, I pray you just enjoy that you enjoyed this episode.

Give us a five star rating and review. If you did share this with other couples, this is one you need to share. You share with your, What’s your boys out there? Your, your buddies, your lions den. They need to hear this episode. Okay? We want us all to have amazing, powerful sex lives. Share with them. Okay, now go to the line within.us.

Join the lions den. Ideas for topics like this come from the lion stand. This is where our community is growing. We’re growing that community so we can serve each other. So again, the lion with.us, Join the lion Stand. While you’re there, maybe you wanna check out some resources, The Bible study, the blogs, the courses we have, all that stuff.

Maybe you want to get you ahead or t-shirt, things like that. Go check it out. Consider being a donor. If you’re liking what to what you hear every week, three times a week from line within. Jump on, be a monthly donor. Just be a whatever you can contribute. Maybe you’re doing 10 bucks, maybe you’re doing 50, maybe you’re doing 200.

Whatever you can do. It all helps tremendously, guys. So consider being a donor. Guys, I’m telling you, just one way or the other, engage with us have, have, make, be part of the community. Don’t just be a consumer who just sits back and. Actually engage with the line within. So I pray you enjoyed this one. Come back on Friday.

I’m gonna give you a couple really good tips on Friday. One tip in particular around wealth is a tip that I think you guys are gonna really be able to lean into. It’s gonna be a simple one too, that you’ll be able to apply that, I promise you, it’s gonna cut off a lot of, of headaches and fights and disagreements and arguments or all that stuff in your marriage.

If you just take this one tip in advance, tell you what, it will help things. So come back before that Fun Friday, and check that out. Pray you guys have a great, uh, great rest of your week. Enjoy it. Have some fun. Go get that resource, have some fun tonight. Maybe if you go get that resource. And seriously, guys, this is what it’s all about.

Thank you again for, for taking the time to listen to the show. Now, go out and unleash the lion within.