00:00] Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders they’re predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys. It is your meet episode of the week, and I’m excited to have you here. Now, you know how we’re gonna start every episode right outta God’s word.

Okay, so this week we talked about First John one, seven, but if we walk into light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his son, purifies us from all sin. Now, guys, if you missed a spiritual kickoff, go back and check it out. It really dug deep into that scripture.

That’s a wonderful scripture, and it really leads us into what we’re gonna be talking about today, which is around discipleship. What does that actually mean? How can we start discipleship groups? How does this, what does, you know, I, I’m not smart enough to even get this going. First of all, yes, you are. And to, and to help us unpack this, I brought in a guy who’s gonna really break it down for us guys.

Okay? His name is Mike Hatch. He’s a national relationship generator for clc, and CLC actually stands for Christ Led Communities. Okay? So prior to that role, he serviced seven and a half years as a men’s pastor and director. Small groups at Orchid Hill Church in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Uh, before coming a pastor Mike was a Young Life area director in a northwest suburbs of of Chicago.

He did that for about nine years, guys. Okay? He also served in the Air Force. Thank you for your service, right? And National Guard for six years. He did. He went to seminary in Deerfield, Illinois. He’s married to a beautiful bride lease, and they actually still live north of Pittsburgh with their son Mateo.

So guys, I’m gonna tell you what, So wonderful conversation. Mike really unpacks a lot of truth around discipleship groups, what that looks like, how you can get it going, what do you need to know? What are some headwinds? We really unpack it. Okay? So get ready for a wonderful conversation with Mike Hatch.

Mike Hatch, welcome to the line within Us. How you doing today?

01:55] Mike Hatch
I’m doing great, Chris. It is an absolute privilege to be with you, brother. Um, yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Oh man,

02:02] Chris Grainger
this has been exciting. I, this, I, I’ve had this one circled on my calendar just cuz when we met there was like an instant connection.

I really enjoyed, you know, just, just, uh, talking with you and, and I know a lot of our guys and we start talking about the day we’re gonna talk about discipleship. They really mm-hmm. , they wanna know what that means. But before we get there, I’ve already read a little bio. I gave ’em a little bit, but that’s just Chris reading words, Man.

Tell, tell the guys a little bit about yourself, about your

02:24] Mike Hatch
background. Yeah, sure. No, I’d love to. I appreciate it. Um, yeah, so, gosh, I, well I grew up in a Christian home for the most part. Um, and , I say that’s maybe weird to say for the most part, um, a very dysfunctional, uh, Christian home. But, uh, but you know, we all have dysfunction.

I know in our homes. However, um, mine was unusual in that, uh, my, my father was a very public figure, um, at a local radio station here in, in Pittsburgh and. Um, had a tremendous min ministry here for gosh, uh, 13 years maybe. Um, and so, okay, there’s still people that I know here in Pittsburgh who, uh, talk about how he absolutely changed their lives.

And, um, and so it, it it’s fun to, to, to, uh, have that legacy in a sense. Um, but, uh, but yeah, it was dysfunctionally that my parents’ marriage was, was always kind of rough and rocky and growing up, you just, as a kid, I just always had this sense that my, my parents’ marriage was not gonna last, I guess. So in high school, when my mom announced me that they were gonna get a divorce, uh, my first reaction was kind of wow, that what took so long, like I expected this a long time ago actually, which is, Yeah, which is kind of sad.

Um, anyway, during that time though, which was, you know, it’s, it’s amazing you think as a kid growing up, Well, some people do. I guess I’ve talked to some people who do. I was one of these kids who grew up thinking my parents are gonna divorce at some point, or wonder what that’s gonna be like, or maybe it’d be better if they divorced or whatever.

Right. Um, unfortunately, Oh man, it is, That was not something I would wish anyone to go through was mm-hmm. , uh, horrifying experience. And, uh, but at that same time, so because of that, it caused me to, to question my faith in some ways. Right. And, uh, and I, I really could have taken a path, you know, one way or the other in terms of do I continue on and really own my faith for myself or do I turn my back and, and go the other way?

And, and, uh, and right at that moment, um, Young Life, which, uh, which is a tremendous high school ministry, um, showed up in my life through a guy named Buck and Buck. Um, he stepped onto our high school campus and. Just started hanging out with myself and, and my, my buddies and took us to camps every summer.

Just was really intentional about, uh, about building relationships with us and sharing the gospel with us and discipling, mentoring, you know, building into me. And, uh, it was later I found out that he was actually the youth pastor at the church that, uh, at first. Yeah. Yeah. So then I started attending the church.

I wanted to go, I wanted to be wherever he was cuz he was the coolest guy I knew. Right. And so that was, that was beautiful how that worked out because then I got planted in the church and grew there. Um, but that was all happening while my family was just crumbling and falling apart around me. Mm-hmm.

And so then around that time was when, um, when my addiction to pornography really took hold. Mm-hmm. . Um, so I’m a recovering pornography addict and it was, uh, man, it, it became my escape. It became my medication to. Uh, yeah. To, to medicate the pain that I was experiencing. Mm-hmm. . And, um, I didn’t know how to, I didn’t have the emotional tools to deal with reality or harsh realities at the time.

Mm-hmm. and, uh, and so I, I’ve used that to escape and, um, that really dogged me for most of my, most of my life until, um, until I was just outta college. And, uh, my wife and I, well fiance at the time, were engaged and five months before we were married, um, we bought a, we’d got not bought, but we were renting an apartment.

And I was, I was living there. She was living with some other friends. We were trying to live separately till we got married. And unfortunately, unfortunately, it gave me all ti all sorts of time to be on the computer to do whatever I want to delve into, just. Steps of , right, of, uh, sinful disparity. And, um, yeah.

So I ended up down that road and then unfortunately one day my wife walked in on me, uh, again, my fiancee at the time, right as I was on the computer. And, uh, everything blew up. And up to that point, I had been kind of managing my, my persona. I had been wearing those masks, you know, that I think a lot of guys will talk about, you know, living out of deep insecurity and fear that one day I would get found, found out.

Um, and so that was like my worst fear realized. Um, up to that point I’d always kind of kept things contained and, uh, uh, yeah, managed that, uh, um, managed my relationships with others to make myself look better, to earn approval from others to, um, to lie, you know, and manipulate in order to make myself, uh, look better and.

And so I was really living as First John chapter one says, I was living in the dark. Really? Yeah. Right. And um, and it says, when you live in the dark, you make, not only are you living a lie, but you’re making God out to be a liar. Um, because I was living in the dark, but I was also confessing Christ as, as my savior I was involved in, in young life and, and ministry and things like that.

So I was, I was a hypocrite big time. Hmm. And, uh, that was God’s moment to thrust me into the light , whether Yeah, whether I was ready or not. Man, here we go. Here we go. Oh my goodness. And, uh, yeah, there was revealed all of my, all of my crap, uh, for all to see. So that was a pretty pivotal mo pivotal moment in my life because before that time, I, I would not say I was depending on God’s grace.

Mm-hmm. , I would say it was about me, uh, in that moment. You know, there’s nothing left to, to hold onto except, except God in that moment. And right. So God knew he needed to do that to me, and he did. And, um, and what I realized was the light, which I had, um, which I had been avoiding for my, all my life up to that point, I, I learned that that was actually where I would experience God’s grace and mercy, um, versus being in, in, in the dark.

And so I began to grow in my recovery, uh, from pornography. Uh, it’s been a long road. There have been times of, of falling and getting back up again and Right. Um, more trauma and healing or just digging up trauma from the past. I didn’t realize that was there and inviting God to heal me. Um, but, uh, but one of the, the key things in my life was, number one, was my relationship with Buck in young life.

Mm-hmm. , uh, especially during that time in high school. Um, Where he was so intentional about discipling me. Right. That was huge. That was huge. And so I just always, uh, I grew up with this idea that, like, that that’s just how it happened. . Yeah. That like, you know, if someone comes alongside you, they open the word of God, they open the Bible to you, they invite you in, you read scripture together, you talk about it, they teach you, um, they invite you into their life.

Um mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And as I got older, actually, that, that’s not as common as, uh, as I would’ve thought at the time. It was a very unique experience, you know? Um, but it really shaped my life. And, uh, and then after I was found out and pushed into the light, I ended up in another, in a men’s bible study in my church where clc, where I’m currently on staff with now.

And it was the first time I remember being around a group of guys who were vulnerable like they were, and, and actually shared. You know, from the depths of their heart, you know, their struggles, their, and, and man that, whew, did that change my life? So then it became my mission in life to, to humbly walk in the light as God is in the light, in order to be a light for the glory of God.

Yeah. It’s like my life mission statement. So, um, going back to First John chapter one, just that mm-hmm. that, uh, that is where God is, that is where I will find his grace and his mercy. Um, so anyway, that’s, that’s kind of my spiritual journey. And then I was on staff with Young Life as an area director and northwest suburban Chicago for nine years and left there and, uh, did, was a men’s pastor at a large church here in Pittsburgh for seven and a half years.

And then just, uh, in the last couple years I’ve been on staff with clc, where now I get to, um, I get to consult with pastors and churches all over the country as, uh, C’S National relationship generator and, um, and help them with their strategy of, of men’s discipleship.

11:36] Chris Grainger
Man that thank you so much for, for first of all actually being real, cuz the, the guys who listen to the line, they, they want the real stuff so , they can tell the fluff.

So I mean, that was, that was just a, a, a heartfelt testimony, Mike and I, I really appreciate that. And, and it sounds like Buck, you know, that that was divinely placed. I mean he was there. I mean, good gracious. And, but it’s to your point, man, I mean I’ve been in several churches and, and, and my growing up we never had like a discipleship program or, or any, any formal, you know, things around that.

So it sounds like you and the CLC that really impacted you greatly cuz you see that as a need that a lot of guys ne have out

12:20] Mike Hatch
there. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So one of the things I’ve gotten to do in my role is I meet with a lot of pastors and churches mm-hmm. and, um, we’ve reached out to hundreds, uh, all over the, the country and man.

They are at a loss. It, it’s, it’s kind of surprising to me, but they are, they’re at a loss at how to disciple men by, by and large churches, um, are not doing it. Right. It partly because I think women, it’s just easier for them because they’re external processors. They connect, they talk, they chat, they, they share their feelings so freely.

Right. We as guys, man, we are, Sorry, I mean, I don’t wanna offend, but we’re, we’re relationally awkward . Yep. You know, I don’t wanna say I’m feeling That’s right. That’s right. Right. I mean, that, that’s why we would rather, you know, go fishing together and strike up conversation as, you know, as we’re doing something together.

Right. Which I think there’s something beautiful about that, by the way. Yes. But for the most part, we tend toward isolation, you know? Yeah. As men, we tend toward isolation. We tend toward wanting to. You know, masters of our own domain, um mm-hmm. and, and and ma and looking like we really wanna look like we have it all together.

We really want. Right. Cause cuz what we want more than anything is respect. Yeah. We want respect from other men. We want respect from our wives, from, uh, women and children. We want respect. And we’ve been, I think taught from an early age that, that in order to have respect, you need to, you need to have it together, you know?

Mm-hmm. , uh, need to have her sh together, you know? That’s right. Um, and what I have found in my journey back into the light is that it’s quite the opposite. In fact, the way we lead our families, the way we, um, lead our children, our communities, our churches mm-hmm. is, is through our desperate dependence on God.

And, uh, and so, but unfortunately we have it backwards. And so if, if we. We were really, were desperately dependent, man. We would be seeking each other to, to come together, you know, for connection, right. And relationship and discipleship. Um, where, where we’re able to build into each other, you know, um, grow each other, mentor each other, um, man, and especially young men today.

They yearn for that. They yearn for someone older to come alongside of them to speak words of affirmation and truth and love into their lives and purpose. Um, yeah, it, it, it’s a big gap in our church today. Yeah, man.

14:59] Chris Grainger
I mean, it really is. And I’m, I’m curious when the, the church that you’re talking to, you know, we’re, where’s the biggest hurdle of that?

Is it just getting guys to commit, getting guys to engage? I mean, I obviously getting them to open up is, is is one thing, but I’m just, is there, is there a common thread that you’re seeing?

15:18] Mike Hatch
So I’ll, I’ll say a couple things. First of all, there was one pastor that told me this. I thought this was a great perspective.

Um, this pastor said that, that, you know, the, the mainline denomination has focused on membership. Wow. The non-denominational side of things has focused on evangelism, and as a result of that, discipleship has fallen through the cracks basically, and hasn’t been the priority. Mm-hmm. , um, especially from, from an evangelical standpoint.

You know, it, the, the, the emphasis has been just bring ’em to Christ, bring ’em to Christ, have ’em, you know, make sure they say the prayer of salvation, and that we know they’re secure and, and then move on. Next one, you know, next in line. And unfortunately, I, I believe, as I look at Matthew 28, where Jesus is saying to his disciples, he’s mm-hmm.

um, the, uh, great commission, What does he say? He says, Well, first of all, he says, I have been given all authority, which is now transferred to you. Now, I’m, I’m transferring my authority to you. You now have authority. And so I’m telling you, go. And what’s the first thing he says? Make disciples. Disciples.

Make disciples. What? What? And a disciple is just simply a student. So for those of you who don’t, maybe some of you disciple might be a strange word. It’s simply just a student. It’s a student who is mm-hmm. following in the footsteps of Jesus and imitating learning from, uh, literally trying to become a carbon copy in a sense, is what the idea was back then, Right.

From Jesus day. And, and so that’s what, Yeah. That it’s, it’s a student. And so, um, I don’t, I just don’t think in our culture today, it is such an emphasis on, um, immediate, the, the immediacy, you know, Uh, or, or the, um, Uh, you know, we don’t wanna put things off. We, we don’t want things to take too long. We wanna, we wanna get there quickly.

Yes. We want to see results quickly. And so often what I see churches do is often they, they, they fall into the trap of, of being event driven, especially when it comes to men. If we can get a hundred guys together in the lobby for a man night or some kind of breakfast or something like, Oh yeah, that, that’ll do it.

Then we get this, get guys excited, get ’em riled up. And then, and then from there we’ll follow up and create these small groups. And honestly, from what I’m seeing from the churches I’m meeting with that is not working, , it’s not working because it caters to a consumer mentality. So now the idea is, Oh, well that was great.

What, what’s the next best thing? What, what’s the next thing? And then, and then when you get into a small group where you’re talking, it’s more intimate. There’s more accountability. More commitment. It’s like, well, this is not what I signed up for. I was excited about this, this fun thing we were doing. You know what I mean?

Like that’s, Yeah. So it’s what we’ve seen in CLC is the opposite. Like start with those who are committed and willing to, to be vulnerable and get into groups to, um, for the purpose of discipleship and then grow from there. And then have an event where you bring those groups together, you know, to, to create that synergy.

Invite men in who might not be a part of it to experience it and see those relationships, you know? Yeah. Um, that works much better than, than the other way. But I, again, I think the idea is, especially from an evangelical perspective, let’s get as many people in the room to to hear the gospel, because that’s the most important thing.

Mm-hmm. gotta get people saved. Um, and we leave behind the, the whole idea of discipleship. So, Right. That’s, yeah, that’s, that’s been my perspective from churches. You’re all over

19:13] Chris Grainger
it. Hey guys, let’s take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

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Mike, I’m curious. You know, I, I’m, I’ve, I’ve had the, the privilege of connecting with pastors just like yourself. Not as many as you, obviously, but if, but a few. And one of the pastors that, or two of ’em not connected with are out of the church of 1122, uh, there in, in Florida, uh, Jo b Martin and, and, uh, Pastor Ryan Brit.

And, and they were talking to me about the way they do it, and again, to kind of, to go, they’re, they’re nondenominational. They’re, they’re really, you know, focused on that evangelism. And when you join that group, that church, of course, it’s a mega church. It’s, it’s, it’s growing, It’s huge out all the campuses.

But they have a, they actually call it a discipleship group. You know, you’re not joining a small group, you’re not joining a Sunday school class. You, you have to join to join a discipleship group. I don’t know what that looks like for them. I just know I’m just seeing their results and it seems like it’s, they’re doing a big, uh, you know, amazing things, but they’re focusing on making disciples.

And I think there’s just so much gray. E even for me, there’s a lot of gray area about what does that actually ? What does that mean? You know, how do we do, how do we, how do we, how do we make disciples? So just, just curious, you know, if you wanted to pull on that a little bit.

21:22] Mike Hatch
Oh yeah, I’d love to. Oh my goodness.

This is like, you just, you just pricked my heart. That is my passion. That’s for over 20 years, man. That, that’s been whatever ministry context I find myself in. Men’s discipleship is always at the core and the heart of, uh, of what I’m doing. Yeah. And the way God made me part of it is because of how I came to faith, uh, through young life, and then was discipled by buck.

And, and, and he entered into my life. He modeled what Jesus, uh, who Jesus was to me. Mm-hmm. . So I got to see Christ live out in him, you know. He opened the scriptures to me, uh, on a regular basis and, and would, uh, share the word and then, and then help me learn how to interpret it and to apply it to my life.

And unfortunately today, I think a lot of men are, are, um, what’s the word? Lack, lack confidence in the word of God. Mm-hmm. . And, and they lack confidence in handling the word of God. So what I’ve noticed is, and these are not bad things in and of themselves, but we often, you know, we have, uh, devotionals and video series and all sorts of different studies that help us to, um, to grow in our faith and they’re good.

But if that’s all that we’re, that’s all that we’re doing. If, if we’re dependent on that, we’re, we’re consumers. Mm-hmm. , we’re not disciples. And so being a disciple means that in, in my mind, is that you now know how to feed yourself in a sense. You, you’re, you’re a follower of Christ and you’re dependent on him through his word and, and the Holy Spirit working in you.

Um, and that there’s a process that I think every guy has to go through to get to that point where they are, where, where they are, um, well desperately dependent on God. Mm-hmm. , and, and it, I think for men, it takes someone else modeling it, teaching it, um, equipping us, encouraging us in, in our own, uh, spiritual strengths and gifts.

Right, right. Um, and so yeah, otherwise we’re, we’re left kind of adrift trying to figure it out on our own, but, uh, there’s a reason why, you know, when you think of like the trades, for example. Mm-hmm. . And you’re in engineering, right? Mm-hmm. If I remember correct? Yeah. Yes sir. So, so yeah, you probably deal with a lot of trades, guys.

And, and the, by the way, if you’re a tradesman out there and you’re, uh, you’re a, uh, blue collar guy, you are one of my favorite people in the universe. I just want you to do that cuz you, Oh my gosh. Uh, I just, I love, I love your, uh, your heart for getting dirty and, uh, um, I dunno, I just think that’s where real, really true, real true value is being produced in our country right now.

Mm-hmm. . Anyway, I digress. But there’s a reason why there are apprenticeships, right, Right. In the, That’s right. Interest all those different fields, right? In the trade, you, you’re being discipled. Right? That’s exactly what that is. You are being discipled in that moment. And unfortunately, we don’t take that approach when it comes to, uh, to our faith, to, uh, to our, our walk with the Lord.

Um, unfortunately, again, that’s because I think a lot of men just lack the confidence. And, uh, and generations before at some point have, have dropped the ball. Um, not to, not to, you know, put the, the blame on anyone specifically, but, um, I think that’s a great way to think about it is think about the apprenticeships in, in, in the trades, um, as a, as a good kind of example of what that looks like.

I think that’s

24:58] Chris Grainger
a great analogy, man. Cause I, I’m an electrical background and, you know, I deal with a lot of the guys and, and if you’re electrical, you enter an electrical apprenticeship program and that’s it. Mm-hmm. and you’re gonna get shocked you, things are going happen, you know, asked to, you’re gonna get asked to bring the wire stretcher and all those types of things, but that’s just pulling you along.

Right. And then that’s just part of the growth. Yeah. And man, I think for, even for me, the Bible can be very intimidating. Yeah. And as a guy, you don’t wanna look dumb. You don’t wanna look like you don’t know something, you don’t wanna get asked a question that you don’t, you feel uncomfortable, that you can’t answer.

And for that reason, a lot of guys just pull back like, Nope, that’s not for me.

25:39] Mike Hatch
You know? And that you just, That’s exactly right. So you, you resign yourself back into the dark. Mm-hmm. is how I, what I like to say as opposed to stepping into the light because you know, when you, so, when you’re an apprentice, okay.

You, I love how you just described that. You make these mistakes, you look like a fool at times. , you know? Yeah. Uh, in fact, in some ways that’s part of the initiation process. I was in Air, Air Force for six years and, you know, you knew you were doing well if, if guys were, were razzing you. Right. If, if they’re messing with you or joking with you or cutting up with you, or, or laughing at your expense,

That’s right. That’s actually not a bad thing. That’s right. Um, it’s when they, it’s when they stop. That’s, that’s when you gotta worry. When everybody gets quiet, nobody’s talking to me anymore. That, that’s when you gotta worry. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, because why, because. In a sense, you, you, that’s our attempt to step into the light and be known for who we are.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and it’s only through because look, a, a guy who’s, who’s app apprenticing, someone else likes, let’s say in the electrical field, Right? Who’s an electrician. He knows that that guy’s life is dependent on him. Right. I mean, literally, like, he, he’s so, he, so I think what it, in a sense, it, it ups his level of, uh, of expertise.

The guy who’s, who’s doing The Apprentice mm-hmm. Or the apprentice, it ups his level of expertise, his level of accountability, his, uh, quality of work that he does, Right. It ups him because he knows he’s got this guy coming after him who eventually is gonna be on his own and is gonna be dependent on, on this teaching for his, his life’s sake, his family’s sake.

Mm-hmm. , you know, which, gosh, as I’m saying this, I’m like, It’s the same thing with, with our faith. I mean, think about it. We’ve got men who, who are trying to, to live out their faith in isolation mm-hmm. , and they don’t have that apprentice. They don’t have that guy who’s, who’s watching over them. Um, or Yeah.

Who’s trying to teach them and, and walk with them through those mistakes and sin and falling and the times you hit the wall and the struggles and hardship. Man, that’s, that’s so critical. And I, and we’re missing it. We are,

28:00] Chris Grainger
I, I wrote a, um, a blog. It’s been received pretty well, and I actually did an episode on the line.

I called it, you know, Find your Paul Barnabas, Timothy, You know, we’re all, we’re all about the barn business. Like we wanna find our buddies, but we, it, it is, we’re not looking for the guy, you know, that’s ahead of us, that can, that can serve us and help us, help us grow. And then we’re not looking behind us either for the guys that we could serve and help them grow along along the way too.

So, I mean, it’s just, There is definitely a gap and you are feeling it, my friend. Well,

28:29] Mike Hatch
okay, let me real quick. You brought this up and I wanna make sure I say this to those who are listening right now. Two things. Number one, if you’re a younger guy, okay? If you’re a younger guy listening to this right now and you’re, what, what we’re saying is like really resonating with you and you’re feeling like, Oh my gosh, that’s what I want.

Um, I want someone older to build into me. I’ve, I’ve had those feelings myself too. Um, you may have to initiate. Okay. Yes. Um, you don’t, you don’t necessarily want to, I understand because in some ways you might feel like, well, he’s, he’s the older, more mature guy. He should be initiating with me. Take ownership of it yourself.

If this is serious, you really want it initiate with someone that who’s older than you, um, who’s more mature in their faith that you respect and admire, um, and trust and, and you make that, uh, that that first commitment, if you will, by saying, Hey, look. I wanna meet with you. Let’s just do, I know you’re a busy guy.

Can we meet once a month, once a week, whatever, twice a month, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. , you lean into that and then say that. Now that’s on the, the one side. If you’re an older guy. Okay. And because here’s what I’m seeing, Gosh. This is, it breaks my heart, really breaks my heart. I think it’s tragic. The older generations, um, they are, um, they’re dismissing themselves.

Mm. They are, um, often don’t feel like they have a voice into the younger generation’s heart. Um, they feel like they are, um, irrelevant. Mm-hmm. , uh, just un unneeded really. Mm-hmm. . And so they will step aside and just, and most, a lot of men who are older Will, will say, No, I, I, they don’t need me. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna put myself out there because.

It does take a level of vulnerability to say, Hey, I wanna invite you in and I’m going to disciple you. Mm-hmm. , because you’re opening yourself up to them to, to examine and see your life, right? Yep. Um, and so I would say to those guys, you have so much more to offer than, than you’re giving your yourself credit for, man.

Mm-hmm. . Um, Please, please. These guys, these younger guys are desperate for this. They’re desperate to be, to have a guy come alongside of them. Um, and, uh, and, and look, like I said before, think about that apprentice. Like some, it doesn’t mean you have to know all the answers, Okay? Right. But, but you are desperately dependent on God.

Mm-hmm. . And when you model that to this guy, that, that’s where he ends up too desperately dependent on God, which is what, where we want every new disciple to end up. And so, um, It’s not about what you know, how much you know if you’re an expert or not. Mm-hmm. , it’s, um, it’s really about how well acquainted are you with God’s grace

Right? Right. How many times have you shocked yourself, you know, replacing an outlet or I’m thinking the, going back to the electric. That’s, you know, that’s what, what are the lessons you’ve learned as you’ve, uh, as you’ve grown? Um, man, I’m telling you, you’ve, you’ve got a lot of life experience to share. Um, and, uh, man, do not, it is so valuable.

Do not hold that back man. Do not hold that back. Our younger generations need it so badly. They do.

31:55] Chris Grainger
And I mean, that’s self doubt. That condemnation, that’s from Satan, man. I mean, you can go good. Romans, Romans eight, one, There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. And we gotta lean into that. And we gotta understand it.

Wherever you’re at, you can to help someone. That’s what I try to tell guys all the time. If you wanna help somebody, you only have to be one step ahead. You don’t have to be like two miles ahead of them, right? Like literally, you could just be one step ahead and help somebody. And it’s just like, you have to lean into that.

But you also need to realize this guys, you’re gonna have to take some action and you’re gonna have to, and, and lean into it. And when you do that, Satan’s not gonna like it. So yeah, the tax are probably gonna come, but you know what, you know, we’re, we’re called to the hard stuff. I mean, as, as Christian men, as Christian leaders, we can’t just sit by, it’s not the pastor’s job to make disciples like that is not their their only job.

It’s all of our job, the church. So I’m like, Guys, get in. Let’s, let’s make this happen. And like, just, just rally around. I feel like we just feel like we gotta go to seminary. I don’t, I’m not smart enough or, you know, I don’t know enough Bible, What they ask me these questions, bro. It’s going to happen. Then go do your homework, come

32:59] Mike Hatch
back and serve them.

Amen man. Amen. Yeah. We have a, we have what we call in clc, the four Ts, uh, time trust. Uh, Time, trust, transparency, and then transformation. Um, guys need these things. They, they need to spend time together, which is why it in, in clc, our groups, you know, they meet weekly mm-hmm. , uh, and they, because I, consistency and, and time spent together is so important.

And there are times where they, where it’s, uh, orchestrating the curriculum to, you know, connect guys outside of that, but Right. Gotta spend time together that leads to, to trust, you know, you get to know each other, which leads to transparency. And that transparency is what leads to transformation. Uh, when, when you’re plugged into God’s word, um, yeah, that’s what we found.

And so it, it takes time, man takes. Yeah. I like the four

33:59] Chris Grainger
tees, man, that needs to be on a t-shirt or something. That’s awesome. .

34:02] Mike Hatch
I know. It’s been helpful

34:05] Chris Grainger
guys. We’ll take a quick break. We’ll be right back folks.

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Now I’m curious, Mike, So you know, we’re speaking to men and we’re speaking, you know, discipleship groups. A lot of that stuff is within the church, but a lot of times men just, we, I think we need to address the hard stuff too. The, it’s not set up to really from a masculine standpoint, you know, churches can, in many ways, it, it, it caters to the femininity.

And there’s nothing wrong with women. This is not an anti-women message, but this is where I’m trying to connect with men here. So how do dis discipleship groups, how can they bring a level of masculinity to those groups that’s gonna wanna draw those guys in and actually engage that, like you said, to spend that time, trust, transparency, and transformation.

What, what can we do to start from a masculine standpoint, uh, actually connect with these guys?

35:33] Mike Hatch
Oh, man, that is a really, really good question, because you’re right, I, if you, um, uh, we had David Merrow on our podcast once. Have you spoken to David Merrow? Yeah, I have not. Have not. Okay. Have to connect you. He, uh, he wrote the book, Why Men Hate Going To Church.

Oh, okay. And, uh, yeah, , and it’s, it’s great. I mean, he talks about you. He just, he just went right

35:55] Chris Grainger
there with that title, didn’t he? Like

35:57] Mike Hatch
who? Oh yeah. And, and you know, he talks about the white doilies at church, you know? Right. The curtains, the flags, and all this other kind of weird singing like, Jesus

36:06] Chris Grainger
is our boyfriend, or something that’s, I wanna do that, man.

Like, that’s just not there.

36:10] Mike Hatch
That’s it. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. It church has been feminized in a huge way. And, Well, and look, let me just, I get Okay. Because of the lack of male leadership. That’s right. It’s

36:25] Chris Grainger
our fault in many ways. Yeah.

36:27] Mike Hatch
Yes. So, honestly, the, the, the, in response to your question, the first thing I would say is men in leadership, like men need to be in leadership.

Mm-hmm. men need to a, a guy who steps out and says, Hey, I’m, I’m starting a discipleship group. I’m gonna start a CLC group, whatever it is, you know, I’m gonna grab guys together. Um, you, you model that masculinity. Right. And, you know, I remem again, going back to my own experience with Buck when I was in young life, he was, as I got to know him and then I got to know some of the other guys who actually knew him.

There was a good buddy of mine actually, who, um, who I played football with in high school. I was a freshman and he was a junior, maybe a senior, I can’t remember. He was junior, senior and he was a tremendous athlete, Unbelievable, amazing athlete. I just, I hoped one day I could be like him. Right, Right. And he was with, he, he Buck had a tra transforming relationship in his life and he, um, he came to faith and was on fire for God.

Okay. And so this kid, Oh my goodness, I watched him like a hawk man. I, I, I was blown away. You know, we would, we would walk off campus to, to a pizza shop right down the street for lunch every day. And he would sit with his buddies and I’d sit in the booth next to him with my friends, but I would always be overhearing what he was talking about with those guys.

Right. And he would be calling ’em out, man, on, on about their faith. Like, you are you guys, have you gone to church? Or, uh, some of the things he would ask them or how, how do you know you, you’re saved? How do you, do you, do you have a relationship with Christ or not? Like he was so bold. Yeah. In, in talking to them.

And in the times where we would have young life events, uh, it was called Young Life Club. He would go through the, you know, the, the hallways of the school and, and just peek his head into the classrooms at the end of the day and just yell in, you know, Hey, Young Life Club tonight, be there. You know, that kind of stuff.

I just, yeah, I, man did I admire him? I admired his boldness and man did I wanna be like that. And I saw him in his relationship with, with Buck and they were always together at church, right near the front too. Uh, one of the front pews. And man, I wanted to be where they were cuz they were, man that. Uh, I looked up to them and so, and so I, I was, I was trying to be in church every time, uh, be where they were.

And, um, and so I think there’s something big about that in terms, so maybe it’s a little bit more ambiguous in a way because it’s, it’s not just taking away the doilies and singing, you know, God is a mighty fortress and mm-hmm. , you know, Grapes of Wrath kind of, uh, worship songs. That, that all plays a role in it.

But I also think it’s, it’s, it’s men modeling masculinity for other men. Mm-hmm. , uh, different types of men too, because unfortunately that, so, because the church has become, has been somewhat emasculated and more effeminate mm-hmm. , I see the pendulum has swung almost too far in the other direction, away from that, toward.

Caricature of a man who’s looks more like a brute, you know? Right. Who’s, um, and, and unfortunately, yeah. So, so we’ve created this stereotype of what it means to be a manly man mm-hmm. . Um, and that that’s something we need to watch, you know, because men, um, with have a, a spectrum in terms of where they fall and, uh, in terms of, you know, well, I’ll just say this way, men have different levels of testosterone, Right.

Which mm-hmm. , which lead to different, um, you know, I don’t know how to describe it. Kind of persuasions within, within that spectrum of manhood. Yeah. And I think we’ve done a disservice by going too far to the ultra masculine, testosterone filled ax throwing, you know, manly man. And we, in some ways, we ostracize the guys who don’t necessarily fit into that category.

Right. You know? Cause there are also guys who. Well, I think about my son. Okay. And I, and look, he is a man. He like, well, he’s a boy, but he’s, he’s right. He’s, he’s male through and through, but he’s not an athlete. Uh, he’s much more sensitive. He’s, um, much more analytical. Mm-hmm. and has a musical talent. Um, he very different from me.

I was much more that stereotypical athlete, you know, play football, run track, like, like Right. You know, lift weights, get strong and big and all this kind of stuff. My son is not like that, you know? Um, in fact, when we would do game nights at our church, we would do game nights where, um, and here’s maybe a more practical answer to your question.

We would do these game nights, uh, where there, there’s a, there’s a subculture of men that are, um, just love, uh, what do you call it? The strategy games, you know? Yeah. Um, I can’t think of the ones right now in my mind. Maybe some guys can think of ’em. But there, there’s some really good, there’s some really fun ones and I didn’t even know about ’em until.

Some of these guys came to me and said, Hey, can we do like a game night thing? And you know, it’s not ax throwing, you know, so you start to think, Really. But dude, it was so fun. Like, um, these guys, they, they really get into it. We got these tables set up and, and spread out in the lobby and, um, play a little, you know, music in the background, you know, But my son loved that.

Yeah. And he was gonna do that before the basketball nights or the, um, I’m trying to think of some other manly thing that we would do. Um, well, you can probably think of different things, but mm-hmm. , besides some of the manly stuff, he loved those game nights. Yeah. So, Yeah. So for me, it comes back to modeling masculinity.

Mm. Okay. It’s, it’s all, that to me is almost more important than, than, than the game night in a sense,

42:26] Chris Grainger
you know? No, I agree. And I mean, a big part of it is just showing up, guys. You gotta show up and if you wanna make a difference, show up. And actually, you know, like you said, model that masculinity, you know, lean in, help others.

Uh, how about, maybe there’s a guy listening, Mike, and, and he’s curious on, you know, this whole discipleship group concept, and maybe he wants to start one. What does it look like? Can you give a, just paint a picture of what it could, you know, just a basic discipleship group, what that, what that entails and the

42:55] Mike Hatch
commitment and things like that?

Yeah. So, um, I can speak from my perspective with CLC, if that’s okay. Absolutely. What we kinda, what we offer. Um, so clc, like I said, built on time, uh, trust.

43:10] Chris Grainger
And what does CLC stand for? Again, just acronym.

43:13] Mike Hatch
Christ led communities good is what it stands for. Which, um, which is so perfect because that’s exact man.

That’s exactly When you bring guys together, together like this, it really is Christ who, who leads the group forward. Right? And you see it play out. It’s really amazing. Um, so for us, every single one of our groups starts with something we call a fence post story. Okay? And so, a fence post story is if you imagine a fence along a property, you know, you’ve got the horizontal pieces, but you’ve also got the vertical, excuse me, the vertical pieces that kind of hold up the, the weight of the whole fence, right?

And those vertical pieces, um, represent in a man those pivotal moments in his life. Uh, it could be experiences, they could be people. Buck would be a a, he’s a big, uh, he’s a post post, right? Yes. In my life. That’s exactly right. Uh, the time my wife walked in on me while I was looking at porn on the computer, right?

Big post , you know? Mm-hmm. , um, So everybody has those posts. And so we actually have a worksheet at the beginning of each of our, of our, uh, uh, groups that just helps guys work through their own fence post or identifying some of those posts. And then before you even get into the, into the study, we typically recommend doing an overnight of some sort where guys will get together and that evening and then the next day in the morning, they will go through their, their stories together.

Right. And, uh, and it, you know, it takes time. Some guys might take an hour, you know, to share their story, but by the end of it, you know each other much better. You’ve started to build trust together. Mm-hmm. , you spent a large amount of time in a short span together. And, um, and that begins the process, I think, because without that, you, you kind of go into the study and, and you’re just not as willing to get transparent with, with guys yet because you don’t know them as well, you know?

Right. So that, that’s a key recipe for us as, as forming a discipleship group that you start out that way. Um, then you, then you work into the study, you get into to scripture. Um, we have, uh, we have four curriculum. Um, one is called Getting Real, which is kind of the, um, the lowest commitment, lowest accountability in a sense where you’re working through a devotional.

Um, and it’s a men’s best selling devotional on Amazon, by the way. Fantastic devotional. Then we have a workbook that goes with it, and it, uh, it, what it does is you spend time with the Lord through the devotional every day of the week. You know, and as you’re doing it, all the other guys are doing the same thing.

And then the workbook has a one page worksheet that you kind of answer different questions that help to encapsulate your experience in God’s word over the course of that week. Okay. Then when you guys get together, you talk through what that week was like for you, um, in God’s Word. Mm. Um, that has been, without a doubt, the most popular within the last couple years.

The most popular curriculum we have, I think, because it’s, it’s three 12 week sessions, which, uh, which allows kind of for on ramps and off ramps to a certain extent. You start in, you commit to 12 weeks. And if a guy, uh, at the, well, at the end of the 12 weeks, you ask the guys, you know, Are we going for the next 12 weeks?

Anybody in out? And most of the time nobody’s out. Everybody, everybody moves on to the next 12 weeks. But you can go for 36 weeks total, three 12 week, uh, sessions. And then the other piece in that is a couple other things that are so critical. Number one, is there something called a lunch matrix that CLC developed, which is so simple, but man, does it make a huge difference in relationships with guys And it’s, it’s just a spreadsheet with the months of the year spread across it guys names in the group on top and, and along the, the left column down.

And, uh, and you, you pick your name, you move your finger down to the month of the year where you’re in and you trace it over and, Oh, Tim, okay, so Tim Tim’s in that box. So yeah, Tim, you’re who I’m having lunch with this month, and it’s so simple, but guys need that. Yeah, man. We

47:24] Chris Grainger
need, we need to be told what to do.

That’s right. Yes.

47:26] Mike Hatch
Yes, we do. , we need a structure, a framework, and to be told what to do. Exactly. Because otherwise we won’t, We, we wouldn’t naturally just kind of say, I don’t know. Hey, you and I should get lunch together. Right. We’re awkward relationally. This helps to kind of take that awkwardness out and, uh, and so the really cool part is seeing these different guys get together for lunch after, or outside the group, you know, during different times and they build relationships even outside the group, but that, that can’t help, but then infect the group when you get together again.

You know what I mean? You see it and it just, this virtuous cycle that is just incredible. Um, and then the last thing that I think is incredible about CLC is we do these affirmation experiences. Okay. Where, uh, we take, uh, each guy has a three by five card. You put the guy’s name on the top, and, uh, and every guy in the group takes time to, to fill out that card with, um, uh, something specific about that guy that they admire, something that they love about, uh, they’re seeing God doing that guy in that guy’s life the way he might be exhibiting or demonstrating God’s character.

And, uh, and then each guy has their card read aloud to the whole group, Right? Okay. And then, and then sometimes they’re extra things that guys might wanna add in just to affirm and encourage that guy. And dude, it is powerful because now you spent time together, right? Yeah. You’ve been in God’s word together, You’ve been transparent together.

So now when a guy speaks life and truth and, and encouragement and affirmation into your life, dude. Oh. It means more than, than you could ever imagine. And uh, and guys will keep those cards forever. Yeah. Put ’em up in their office or whatever, just to remind themselves, you know. So anyway, these are the elements that are key in our, our groups.

So that was getting real. There’s also a, um, a two year, which has been our, our actually our flagship curriculum for 40 years we’ve been in existence, uh, called All In. Yeah. And it’s a, it’s a really in depth two year study with, um, a lot of extra biblical reading as well, a lot of scripture memory. Um, and you kind of go through all the different pieces of, of what it means to be a man of God.

So what it mean to lead your family, what does it mean to live out your faith at work? Um, and it goes through all those different pieces, uh, from a very biblically grounded, uh, perspective. And, uh, it’s two years meeting every week, except, you know, you’ll take time off here and there, but again, it. Here.

Here’s the thing, when you spend time together, it, you can’t not have something major happen to somebody in your group during that time. Right? That’s right. It happens every, you can count on it. When you commit to get together for an extended period of time, on a weekly basis, someone is gonna run into a huge struggle, you know?

Mm-hmm. and, and men, are you gonna be grateful that you have this group to fall back on? And, uh, and guys, guys wonder how they were doing it before, you know? So, um, so that’s the All In program. And then there’s also Next Steps, which was designed to follow up all in. Okay? And that’s a one year study, uh, very similar to All In, but it has a more of a focus on identity in Christ.

So if you’re a pastor out there, think of, um, you know, an in-depth study of Romans like eight through 12, you know, where you’re. You’re getting a deeper understanding of what it means to be a child, a beloved son of God. Mm-hmm. , um, it’s very transforming experience. That’s a one year study. And then we have something called elbow to elbow, which is specifically for young adults.

Um, and that’s usually smaller groups of three to five with one or two leaders in, in the group who, uh, again, help mentor and disciple those younger generations.

51:18] Chris Grainger
Right. Man, I love it. Sounds CLC has so many great things. And guys, check out the show notes. We’ll make sure we sync up everything there so that you can go check out the right program for you.

So, Mike, we’ll take our last break. We’ll be right back.

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I’m curious, Mike. So the guys are pumped up. They’re excited about this. Discipleship groups. Now we got ’em. There’s, there’s one component I don’t wanna miss though. And, and that has to do with, with our, our, our spouse at home. Cause I think we need to make sure we get these guys in alignment. So sometimes, you know, sometimes guys think, Well, I’m married, I don’t need a discipleship group.

So maybe speak to that. But also like the guys that, you know, they realize they do and maybe they’re not in alignment with their wife. How can they, you know, give ’em some tips there just because we, we definitely want that alignment with the spouse. And just with your knowledge, I’m sure this has probably come up in the past,

53:03] Mike Hatch
Oh yeah.

A lot. I, so the wives of the guys who’ve been in CLC are much, actually much better at, uh, advocating and, and, uh, um, kind of, how do I say this? Promoting clc I gotcha. Than anybody else. Oh my goodness. They, in fact, so much so that then out of that came, uh, a version of CLC that went for specifically women.

Okay. Cause they, they said they saw this life transformation that men were going through, and they’re like, Oh my gosh, we need this for ourselves. Uhhuh . So they came up with a, a women’s version, which is, uh, it’s blc, which is, uh, Oh gosh. Something about becoming like Christ is what? It’s what they’re called.

So, man, Oh my gosh. So , So there are burdens that our wives honestly should not carry. Mm-hmm. . Um, there are burdens that specifically God has, I think even anointed your, your brothers to carry along with you. Mm-hmm. . Um, and when, unfortunately, so if someone who would say, Well, I don’t need discipleship because I’m, I’m married.

Oh my gosh. I’d wanna scream . You wanna pull my hair out? Because, You need it more than anybody. Uhhuh, . Um, because, uh, man, there are just some things you, if we’re honest as men, that, that we can’t necessarily be as completely vulnerable with our, our wife about. Um, now it, depending on the marriage, depending on, you know, different factors, I realize some men would say, No, my wife is my accountability partner.

I tell her everything. Right? You are the vast mi Well, that’s not the right way of saying it. You are the minority. Yep. Let’s just say it that way. Agreed. You’re definitely the minority. And praise God. Praise God for that. Um, in my experience in discipling and ministering with men, guys need each other because, um, we, we are able to speak into each other’s lives from, from experience and from knowing each other in ways that our, even our wives can’t.

Um, there are ways that we need to be encouraged and lifted up and, uh, grown in our faith through other men that. Women just don’t, they weren’t designed to do it. Mm-hmm. , honestly. So, um, so yeah, I think, I think you, you need it very badly. And it, so what I see often is that guys will get isolated within their marriage because they will run into different things, struggles and challenges with their wife, and they get discouraged because typically, and I’ve married a lot of people, and I’ll tell men this, typically guys, you are not as emotionally mature as your wife going into a marriage.

Mm-hmm. definitely not because, because again, just because of how we’re wired, right? You can just externally process so much better. There’s so much more familiar with talking about their feelings than we are. We just, we don’t know how to do that. And so, um, what I’ve noticed is men will run into that barrier of communication with their wife.

They will isolate. The wife will feel unloved. The man will feel disrespected. And it will start a vicious downward sp spiral and cycle that will lead to divorce. Um, and in my opinion, the the discipleship group that you would be forming with other men, um, really I think helps put an end to that, to that cycle and, and helps you as a guy feel heard, known and loved.

Mm-hmm. in a way that you desperately need. And you may not even realize it, but we, we desperately need affirmation and love and encouragement from other men. We need it, uh, badly. So, um, especially for guys, and this is probably the majority of guys, we all have, you know, father wounds. I think John Eldridge did a great job of helping us all understand that we all have, have a father wound of some sort.

Um, and you, you would be amazed at how God works through the Holy Spirit that exists in another man’s life. To speak to you, a minister to your heart, and heal, heal those wounds in your heart. Mm-hmm. , it can only be healed by, by other men. Mm-hmm. . Amen.

57:19] Chris Grainger
Well, guys, I mean, take that advice right there. Cause I’ll tell you what, when, if you get in alignment with your wife on this, you know, you’re not gonna have that any conflict and she’s gonna see the fruit.

So, I mean, just, I encourage you to share, share like the, the information that, that Mike talked about, the CLC information, Share that with her. Let her see the program, let her see what you’re talking about. Come home and talk about what they’re decid, you know, maybe don’t share. You want to keep a certain level of what stays in the group, in the group, but sometimes, you know, there’s things that, that are worth sharing and, and, and bring that out.

Or maybe you talk about what you brought to the group and that can launch

57:49] Mike Hatch
into a conversation as a couple. Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah. And I just tag onto that real quick because you just said that and it sparked something in me too, that, um, you know, , you will be able to love your wife better.

Mm-hmm. , you will be able to know and, and be self-sacrificial in your marriage. Uh, Better when you know that there are other men who are working to do the same thing. That, that’s the other thing, man. We, we were built as men, uh, in general, stronger physically. Mm-hmm. , not so that we could, you know, work out, be tough, be strong, and be an exhibitionist.

It, it, it was, it was so that we could take a beating because we’re called to carry our cross and go die, like price died. And so guess what guys? We need, we’re built to take a beating. And, uh, and I think when we are self-sacrificial in that, in that way for our wives, that is a demonstration of love to them, which will draw them closer to us.

But we, we can’t do that alone. Right. It is, it is, Oh my gosh. We need each other to, uh, to, to encourage each other, to affirm each other. Um, and, uh, and it, because yeah. When you know that other guys are going through some of the same issues and struggles that you are, um, It strengthens you in your own journey.

Um, amen. So,

59:12] Chris Grainger
yeah, anyway. Love it, love it. Well, Mike, on a line within us, we always had the, towards the end, we called it feeding time. Okay. So we’re going, we’re going, we’re going take some bites outta you. I’m just kidding. But we’re, we do have some fun with the lightning round, but, uh, you know, I’m just gonna fire a few things.

You let us, you just come right back. And this is just a way for our listeners just to get to know you a little bit better and, and again, have a little fun here at the end. So, man, the question, number one question, what is your favorite thing about God?

59:41] Mike Hatch
He’s my father. I’ve, I’ve got that. That is, without a doubt.

I mean, I don’t even have to think twice about that, That he is my, he’s my dad, my perfect father. Yeah. Love

59:52] Chris Grainger
it. Yep. Now, what’s your least favorite thing about Satan

59:58] Mike Hatch
Oh gosh, man, these are good questions, dude. Um, okay. That, well, that he’s a liar. Um, that’s the, my least favorite. I think that’s, That, that deception man is so, it, it just creeps in and, and is really hard sometimes. So yeah, that’s, I’d say he’s a liar.

1:00:19] Chris Grainger
Amen. What is something that you’re currently struggling with right now?

Ooh. Um,

1:00:26] Mike Hatch
okay, so that’s a great question. So, right now, currently I am struggling with, um, uh, making time intentionally with my son, Mateo. Okay. Um, I’m currently in the process. I’ve, I’ve got a lot of things going on. I’m hosting a podcast. I, um, in the process of writing a book involved in ministry of course.

And, uh, and honestly, I, I’ve, I’ve really struggled with, with guilt, um, because I feel like I’m in this se and I know we all have seasons. Yeah. But, um, man, I just feel, in fact, I told Mateo a couple days ago, I said this Saturday, You and I were just gonna go do something fun together. Frisbee, golfing, something We love going frise, golfing.

Nice. But we haven’t, we haven’t done it this summer. I’m like, ugh, I’m kicking myself for that. Yeah. So, um, and because we’re so different , it, it can be a challenge to, to, to find that common ground now. Yeah. We love each other. It’s, it’s good. I, but yeah, that’s, I, I feel like I need to spend more time with them.

I’m

1:01:28] Chris Grainger
with you now. What is something that you spent too much time doing last year? If you look back over the last year? Where’d you, what’d you, where’d you spend too much time?

1:01:37] Mike Hatch
Oh, wow. Where’d I spend too? I don’t think I’ve ever thought about that before. Um, pleasing other people. Okay. I think is, is, yeah. I have, I have a tendency to, um, yeah.

To fall into kind of a people pleasing, appro wanting approval kind of tendency. Yeah. And in doing that, um, So, yeah, I’m a number two Enneagram. I dunno if that means anything to the guy. Some of you may. Which, which is very rare for a man, by the way. Yeah. So, um, but I just, I wanna help everybody, you know?

Mm-hmm. , I, I, and sometimes I can get this, this, uh, I, I can believe the lie that I am, I’m omnipresent . Mm-hmm. , or, and I can just do it all Right. You know? Uh, and yeah. So, man, that gets me so often. Yeah. I gotta watch that. Yeah.

1:02:36] Chris Grainger
What’s, uh, alright, two questions left. What’s a new habit that you wanna make

1:02:39] Mike Hatch
this year?

Scripture memory. Okay. Uh, that, that’s been, that’s in a huge, I’ve been working on that and it, it continues to be one that, uh, that I, I’m gonna continue to work on. I just believe so, so much in, in hiding God’s word in your heart. Yeah. And how that is just like a seed planted that transforms you and, and yields fruit.

So, um, yeah, I’ve been working on that one. Love it.

1:03:06] Chris Grainger
Love it. Last question, Mike. So what is the one thing that, that you hope the listeners out there remember from our conversation

1:03:13] Mike Hatch
today? Hmm. So primarily men, right? Mm-hmm. , or the listeners, of course. The one thing I would want guys to remember is, um, guys, we, we weren’t, we weren’t made to be alone.

Mm-hmm. , we were created to be connected, uh, to be with each other, not to be isolated. Um, I remember watching a, a YouTube video of a guy who was talking about addiction. And, uh, he said, You know, the, the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection. And, uh, I think I, I see that as being one who struggled myself with an, an addiction to pornography.

I’ve got an addictive mentality, you know, or poor. Mm-hmm. tendency. I so believe that the more connected I am with people, uh, and especially other men mm-hmm. the, uh, the less I need to, to, to escape. Yes. To escape or to, um, to, to medicate. Um,

1:04:19] Chris Grainger
yeah, absolutely. That’s, I I love that last quote you gave there. So Mike, where can guys go connect with you, learn more?

You mentioned your podcasts. Why don’t you go ahead and mention that too, so they can go Yeah. You know, hop over here and listen to that as

1:04:31] Mike Hatch
well. Yeah. So we’re, we’re half the podcast. You are? Ah, no, I don’t know about that brother. Well, I, I say that because we’ve got 50 episodes. We’ve just dropped our 50th episode, well, I think this week.

Yes. So you’ve got a hundred and So , you’re over a hundred, so you’re, Anyway, I say that kind of jokingly. Um, No, it’s a great podcast. Absolutely love it. Obviously it’s called Empowered Manhood. And, uh, it is, yeah, we’ve got, we’ve had some amazing people including you, Chris, your, your episode know how it is.

You get so in the rhythm. You’re, I definitely question

1:05:04] Chris Grainger
your selection of guests now, but other than that, man, guys, still check it out guys. .

1:05:09] Mike Hatch
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s a great podcast. So yeah, you can obviously listen to me there. Every week we drop a new episode on Wednesdays. Um, you can, uh, you can visit, uh, our website@clchq.org and you can reach out to me there.

You can email me at m hatch clc hq.org. You, I’m on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. Um, I’m on Facebook, not as, not as active on Facebook. You can find me there. Um, yeah, I think that’s, that covers it.

1:05:40] Chris Grainger
Okay. Yeah, well, we’ll make sure we sync that up in a show notes for you. Listeners, definitely connect and Mike connect with clc.

Go listen to Empower Manhood, put that on your favors list, You know, go ahead and add that. So, Mike, anything else you’d like to add here on the line

1:05:51] Mike Hatch
within us today? Just Chris, thank you, man. I, I am, Thank you for what the ministry you’re doing. Thank you for the line within us. And like, I think in our, when I, we did interview, you had talked about, uh, how our, our, our missions and passions align so much.

Yeah. Because the line within us is kind of just another way to say an empowered man, right? Uh, which is where our podcast. So I just, I love that there’s someone else, um, out there doing what, what we’re doing and that we’re, we’re aligned and we’re, we’re, we’re locking arms together in a sense, even though we’re different ministries and podcasts.

And, um, so man, you are, you are making such a difference in men’s lives and I’m grateful for you, Chris, and grateful for the opportunity to be on here and share the stage with you. Thank you so

1:06:36] Chris Grainger
much, brother. It’s been an honor to have you on here and, and you’re welcome back anytime. We’ll, and we’ll dig into some more fun topics together.

So I hope you have a great day, Mike.

1:06:44] Mike Hatch
Thanks man. We’ll see ya.

1:06:48] Chris Grainger
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That’s the line with then.us/book to learn more.

Guys, I told you it was gonna be a powerful conversation. I tell you what, Mike knows his stuff. I mean, he’s been doing this work for so. He’s making an impact. So if you’re interested, I highly encourage you. Go check out the clc, see what they’re doing, get get in touch with Mike. Maybe have a, get him in in conversations with your pastors, but your leaders at your church.

You can start the small programs, like you said, those 12 week programs to get going. But sometimes we just, as men, we need some structure, We need some guidance to help come alongside of us. Cuz look, look guys, we’re not made to do this alone. We need support. We need to help each other. So I’m so very thankful that Mike came on, shared his ideas, shared what he’s doing, because it’s making such a big impact.

So the question I, again, I want you to think about this week, How do you make the disciples, how do you make disciples? You know, it’s not, it’s not the pastor’s job. I mean, it’s not, don’t put this just on the church. You are the church. So what are you doing to make disciples and how are you being discipled right now as yourself?

Okay, so guys, again, powerful conversations. Share that with your, with this one, with your men’s group for sure. This is one you will want to get your, your, your buddies thinking about, talking about. Cause you could be riding around right now in your vehicle. Listen to the line within us. Or maybe you’re running on a treadmill.

Maybe you’re walking around the neighborhood. Wherever you’re, wherever you’re at and you’re like, Man, I need a discipleship group. Maybe I could start one. Resources like this is are work you can lean into to actually make that reality. Guys, you don’t have to be a pastor, you don’t have to be some deep theologian to actually get going to be a disciple.

You can take resources that people have really poured their heart and soul into and built to help us, to help us grow. So again, if you’re interested, check out the show notes. Go check out those links and really start making something. Now guys, again, you like the lion within us. If you’re enjoying it, share it with others.

You know, that’s the number one thing you can do is just share it with others. Give us some, uh, a, a rating and review that makes a big difference. Connect with us on the socials, okay? We’re out there on Instagram. We’re out there on Facebook. Pretty regular on those two, okay? So connect with us there. Love to get your feedback.

Love to see how we can serve you. Join the lions den that’s at the lion within.us. Join the lions den. That’s free. That gets you into our email group so we can actually start serving, give you some, uh, light out of this, all this dark world. We actually just wanna send you some good stuff every week. We’re not gonna bombard you every day, but we do wanna serve you, give you some information.

That way you can know how you can engage with the line with Dennis. Maybe you want to know about our coaching program. Maybe you wanna look at our Bible study, maybe you wanna look at, uh, online courses. We can help you with all that stuff. Okay? Just go to the line with, dot us. Join the lines then, and we’ll take it from.

So guys, come back on Friday. We’ll have a fun, a really fun, fun Friday. There you go. We’re gonna wrap all this stuff up. I’m gonna give you a few tips I really think gonna help you, particularly as you start moving forward with discipleship groups to make ’em effective. Because I’ll tell you what, you can, you’re gonna run to resistance, friction’s gonna be there.

I’m gonna try to help you get some ideas to move past it. So have a great day, guys. Get out there, have some fun. Remember your scripture of the week, and unleash the lion within.