In this episode:
Every life is precious and Christians should be the ones pushing back on the darkness of abortion.
This conversation hits right at the core of how to move from saying you are pro-life to action you can start taking. We welcome back Kyle Thompson from the Undaunted Life Podcast to unpack his latest resource “How To Engaged The Top 18 Pro-Abortion Arguments”.
If you have to scream your point, it's probably because your point isn't good enough just to sit on its own. Click To Tweet Kyle Thompson
Welcome to the Line with Dennis, a podcast sermon Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainer. Let’s jump in. All right, guys. It is your meet episode of week. I’m excited to have you here. We’re gonna be talking about a heavy conversation, how to engage top pro abortion arguments.
All right now for our scripture for this week, it’s at Luke 1 41 through 40. When Elizabeth, her and Mary’s greeting the baby leap in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and a loud voice, she explained. Blessed are you among women and blessed as a child who, who you will bear. But why am I so favored that my mother or my Lord should come to me as soon as the sound of your greeting reach my ears, the baby and my womb?
Let for joy. Guys, I love that scripture. Go back and check it out. That spiritual kickoff we did earlier this. Really unpacked that, uh, and had a lot of fun unpacking that one because it really leads right into the conversation we’ll had today. And we brought back Kyle Thompson from Ted Life. He really, uh, was, was gracious to come back on the show and we went through how do you engage the top pro abortion arguments.
Kyle wrote a PDFs that talks about 18 of the top pro-abortion arguments and how you basically can approach these. With the right questions and the right mindset to have a fruitful conversation. Okay, so guys, we unpacked this at length. We, we touched on some areas of Kyle and, and true Kyle Fashion gave, gave some really great insight into how you can take this, a lot of the resources that he built right here, an undaunted life, and apply it and go have these conversations.
Now, stay around for the second half of this in, of this, of this podcast. Where I just went through scripture to really back up some areas that Kyle talks about. Now, again, Kyle didn’t put a lot of scripture in his, in his PDF because his PDF is meant to serve in a different way. I wanted to serve you guys as alliance, as a as, as a Christian leaders out there with some scripture to back it up.
So go check out that resource guys. I put, we put a, a lot of effort into to giving you some scripture that really goes along with it. Again, his pdf, you’ll find that link in his show notes. But I just have so much fun working with Kyle. He’s just a great guy. Gives me a lot of good feedback, uh, challenges me to be a better podcast or he definitely sets the bar very high.
Different styles of different style shows for sure. He definitely is, is is very definitive in what his approach, my approach is a lot different. But you know what, we’re both doing our part to build the kingdom. So I pray that you enjoyed this conversation with Kyle Thompson. Again, stick, stick around for that second half, but where you wanna see it.
And then also guys, quick reminder. Do not forget to join our Lion Stand community. That thing is growing every. Guys are joining. We’re having wonderful engagement conversation events. Uh, guys, that is where the iron sharpens iron, and it’s for stuff like this pro how to be more pro-life and, and be able to, uh, to approach pro-abortion arguments.
You’re gonna need brothers helping you. So I’ll see you in the community. Guys, I’m not gonna hold you back anymore. Georgia’s conversation with Kyle Thompson.
Man, so, so excited to have you on Kyle. So just share with our listeners what’s been going on at daunted. I’ve been listening, not, maybe not all of our listeners have, but you have been, have some incredible guests, some incredible topics you’ve been hammering through lately. So what’s the latest? Give us some inside scoop on Undaunted life, man.
03:26 Kyle Thompson
Hey, you guys, uh, go check out on daunted life, man. Podcasts, anywhere you get your shows. It’s funny for me because when I’m like in it all day, every day, I don’t really think about the uniqueness of the conversations. I don’t really think about the guests I’ve had or the ones I’ve had coming up. It’s only whenever I kind of pause and I’m like, wait a minute.
Like when I just think about the people that have been on the show this year. It’s like that’s just. It’s, it’s crazy. It’s like a weird, weird sense. Like you can call it a blessing and you can call it, you know, luck. You can call it any number of things. But I guess for me is I’m, I’ve always been pretty inquisitive.
I remember like my fifth grade teacher telling my, my mom at the parent teacher conference, and I’m a really inquisitive boy and I was like, I don’t really know what that is, but here I wonder how this thing works. And so that’s just kind of the deals, like I’m constantly interested in people in kind of the way that they think.
And the uniqueness of their circumstances and just, I don’t know when you’re gonna release this, but just yesterday we released an episode with Sarah Wilkinson. She’s a gold star widow. Her husband killed himself, uh, he killed himself. He was a member of Navy, uh, special Warfare Development group. So the top tier, the Navy Seals, uh, which is basically a top tier of the spec ops community.
And I mean, he literally, Went across the pond, across from their house, like watched their family leave and then killed himself. And like, it was just, it’s a crazy situation. And I mean, it’s the only time in my career where I’ve just, I literally xed out of my, my questions for the day and said, all right, I’m not, when we were talking off air, it’s like, you know, there’s something different going on here, so we’re just gonna hit record and see how it goes.
Mm-hmm. And so, but it’s just, You know, not every interview is, is great, uh, by my standards. Uh, but the audience will like guys that I didn’t even think were very good and then they don’t ever respond to the ones I think are amazing. But it’s just, you know, it’s whatever the audience, uh, feels like is important.
And next year we’re probably not gonna have as many interviews cuz it start, it’s pretty cumbersome to do three, four interviews a week and read all the books associated with that. And I’m not the fastest reader or the smartest guy. So, uh, enjoy it for now. You know, while we have all these interviews for now, we’ll see how it goes.
05:10 Chris Grainger
I was curious, man, how are you keeping up with it? Cause I’m the same way. I, I, I do the prep work, I read the books and, and I’m trying to keep up like you’re dropping like three or four interviews a week, man. How in the world are you keeping that pace up?
05:20 Kyle Thompson
I mean, you just, you have to, I mean, I’ve, I’ve always been a guy that’s been very energy based, like a lot of people don’t understand.
They’re like, wait, so you don’t drink coffee? Wait, so you don’t take energy pills? You don’t do any of that. It’s like, I mean, I, a guy asked me the other day, he is like, what’s your pre-workout? It’s like water. I don’t know. Like, what, what do you need? Why do you need all this other extra stuff? It’s like, just do it.
And I think part of it is just discipline. It’s like, If someone’s gonna come on my show and donate an hour of their time or more, or something like that, I feel like it’s incumbent upon me to do my job, which is to do the homework and to tee them up to be able to sell a book, or to be able to, you know, get votes if they’re running for office, or to be able to get people to sign up for their newsletter, whatever the thing is.
Like, that’s incumbent upon me to do that. And the way that I do that is I set them up with, You know, actually delving into the content that they put out there to everybody. There’s nothing more annoying to an author or to some a creator whenever someone asks ’em a generic question. So what made you wanna be a writer?
And so what did this, and did they just stay at this surface level the entire time? It’s vad, it’s meaningless. And so I just try to make sure that I dig in as much as possible, and that’s gonna set you apart because they recognize that you’ve. Every page of the book by the questions that you ask. But then, you know, there’s always a gap between passion and talent and you, you gotta have all of it if you’re gonna be successful.
But, you know, for me it’s just, I’m just gonna keep going and you know, I’m either neutral or I’m in six gear. That’s the only way I know how to operate . That’s it.
06:34 Chris Grainger
Well, I love it when you’re in sixth gear and, and we’ll just dig right into your point. You put out some content recently, how to engage the top.
18 pro-abortion arguments and that just when it hit my inbox, I immediately downloaded it. You know, I wanted to see it. I wanted to, to dig in. And I love how you started out, out the gate talking about the first person who raises, their voice loses, and, and that’s so critical to maintain composure in these types of conversations.
And maybe just give us some, some context of why do you think that is important for us to remember that when we get into these heated, sometimes heated exchange?
07:05 Kyle Thompson
Well, to back up to the document itself, the reason why I made that white paper is because I will go around and I’ll, I’ll give a speech. I’m, you know, hired by churches or whatever to come in and do, you know, defeating pro-abortion arguments.
And I’ll get somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour and a half to kind of go through all those different things. But I wanted to make sure there was some sort of a payoff for people, because that’s a lot of information. And I obviously talk really, really fast. And so I don’t expect you to write down all the main points and you’re gonna miss stuff.
And what if it’s not recorded and you can’t watch it again later? You know, those types of things. And so I put this together as kind of like a, Hey, here’s. Here’s an encapsulation of how to engage with a top 18 most commonly used pro-abortion arguments by pro-abortion people. And so with that in mind, the other thing I wanna tell people is like, look, I’m not giving you a cheat sheet on how to be the biggest jerk in the, in the debate.
And so I wanna remind people is it’s like whether you’re, you know, more of a low-key arguer, or you’re the guy slamming tables and throwing things, it’s like when they raise their voice, they look. But if you raise your voice first, who do you think looks stupid? You do. And if you have to screen your point, it’s probably because your point isn’t good enough just to sit on its own.
Because again, if you’re part of the pro-life worldview, you are in the moral position. And the other side loves to, uh, loves to straw man. Whereas we should love to steel man. Straw manning is where you put up the worst part of someone’s worldview and you knock that down as if that’s some sort of accomplishment.
Steel manning is, you take the strongest part of that person’s worldview and then you knock that down and if you set yourself up to do that mentally, you’re not gonna have to yell.
08:29 Chris Grainger
Right, right. I think that there’s such an important, important area that we need to remember as guys when we go into these conversations.
So I’m curious, when I was digging through this, I noticed that there wasn’t scripture with, throughout the document, why’d you choose to take that path? Is it, are you trying to help more from a secular standpoint? People, you know, have these conversations? Just, just, just curious on why
08:49 Kyle Thompson
you took that path there.
So if someone says it’s not a human being, it’s a parasite. Defend that with s.
08:56 Chris Grainger
Right. I mean, well, I mean, I go straight to Psalm 1 39 and, and so many times with, in that, you know, performed in, in the womb knitted together, you know, I, I usually go straight there.
09:07 Kyle Thompson
Okay. No uterus, no opinion. Defend that with scripture.
Yeah. That’s a,
09:11 Chris Grainger
that’s a, again,
09:13 Kyle Thompson
I go back, you see where I’m going, right? So the thing is, is when I give the presentation live, I start with scripture, okay? The very first words outta my mouth are scripture. But this is a cheat sheet. This isn’t a theological expose on how to defeat the, the pro-abortion arguments by using scripture alone.
But here’s the other thing. Now this is gonna get me in trouble with some of the reforming guys and some of the, you know, uh, people that are like about sphere sovereignty and all that. And I get it. But if you go and quote scripture to somebody, That is not a Christian, that they think the Bible itself is this, you know, combination of these fairy tales and these fables and things that have been taken outta context and we haven’t even, you know, taken it down through time correctly or any of that.
And then I start quo scripture to you, the conversation is now over and the end goal is to make sure that people stop killing babies, right? That is the end goal. Right, right. Now, some people might say no, the end goal is salvation. Yes. But when we’re having a debate about pro-life, pro-choice, killing babies in the womb, or not killing babies in the womb, that’s the main focus.
What can we do to convince the most amount of people possible to stop doing that, to stop destroying people, to have the imago day. And so, no, there’s, there’s no scripture in anything like that. And actually, you’re the first person ever really say that. That was even weird. Because again, I’m showing you based on logic and reason how you can come back and, and go at these people and their ridiculous worldviews.
10:28 Chris Grainger
No, I mean, I completely get it now, man. I mean, like I said, when I read it, I was reading it from a Christian world view and I was trying to, trying to find those areas, but that totally makes a lot of sense. And you know, I think I even went through and I pulled some scriptures I think could potentially support that as a, as as you go along.
But man, I love it. I’m just curious from you personally, why are you so motivated to take this issue head on the way that you do? I mean, you, you do so many episodes, so many conversations, you know, you’ve been to Washington. I, I mean, I follow you on Instagram. I know all the different things that you’re doing.
Why is this such a personal passion?
10:58 Kyle Thompson
Yeah, Chris, that’s, that’s actually a really good question because I don’t know. I really don’t know, like, If you were to look at your life, and I’m, I’m struggling to find a good metaphor, but it’s like, you know, why do guys really, really like muscle cars versus like, you know, foreign sports cars, right?
Like they can’t tell you why. Maybe it’s cuz their grandpa drove an old Chave and you know, he didn’t drive a bmw. Like maybe that’s it, but you don’t know why you like vanilla more than you like chocolate. You don’t know why you prefer this over that, but for me, maybe it’s because I hate. Because whenever I was growing up, I was the bully sometimes and I was also bullied mercilessly at other times as well.
Maybe I hate that. I can’t stand when, when people are kept from their potential and there’s no more extreme version of that than stamping out a life in the womb before it’s even begun outside the womb. Again, it’s a geo geographical argument, not an actual argument. And so I guess that that’s probably it is I, I just can.
Stand to see people take advantage of people that are weaker than them. Because I’ve been on both sides of that. I’ve taken advantage of people that were weaker than me growing up, and I remember how that made me feel after I became a Christian. It’s like, oh no. And even with my personality, I have to be very careful about that now.
But I’ve been on the other end of that too. I’ve been on the intimidated side, the cowering side of that. And it’s just like it’s, it’s strong people taking advantage of weak people that can’t defend themselves, and there’s no. Indefensible person on the planet, you know, in terms of them being able to defend themselves and an unborn person in the womb.
12:21 Chris Grainger
Got that right. I mean, when I mentioned to you earlier, before we record it, we had Al Robertson on and we talked a lot about defending the defenseless. And I just, I pick up that passion with you. You’re just, you know, you wanna stand up for, for, for certain things and, and. Definitely tell with this issue, man, you just, you hit it head on and I’m so, so thankful for guys like you who stand up, you’re not afraid to, to let that lion out, you know, in the right way that controlled, you know, area and really make an impact on so many different people.
So I’m curious, you’ve done a lot of research in this area too, Kyle, what’s been the most surprising thing that you’ve learned as you’ve tried to really dug in and, and, and unpack the idea of abortion and, and everything that’s going on? Just any surprises that that’s,
13:00 Kyle Thompson
Yeah, the most surprising thing is how weak supposed Christians are on this issue.
And so the whole reason why I created the talk defeating pro-abortion arguments is cuz there is a guy who I’m very, very close with. I love this guy like a brother. Um, this was years ago before I had ever presented this material publicly. Um, I just was feeling froggy that day. And he’s like, yeah, I’m, you know, I’m pro-life, pro-life all the way.
And I said, well, what if the girls raped and impregnated? And he goes, oh man, that’s a tough one. It’s like, okay, you’re not pro-life. Right. And so it’s like you’re either pro-life or you’re not. There is no gray area in this debate, right? That’s the shocking thing. And so when I go and speak, especially in front of churches, um, I think that way a lot because what people don’t realize is a lot of their worldview is downstream from culture.
And they just kind of accept some of this nonsense from culture because they’re marinated in it. They don’t even recognize that they’ve done it. They’re like, yeah, I don’t think we should kill babies in the womb. You know, after 12 weeks. Cause like before 12 weeks we don’t really know what it is and blah, blah.
And all this nonsense that they’ve been fed by culture. They’ve just accepted it. They just bought it hook, line, and sinker. So that’s the thing that’s been shocking. And then the other thing, which shouldn’t be a shock to anybody, because most, you know, pastors are pussies, but it’s just like they won’t talk about this, this from the.
They won’t do it. Mm-hmm. . And if they do, they hop into it and then they hop right back out because it’s too hot. And we don’t want women in the, in the crowd that have, uh, had abortions to feel judged. And we don’t want anybody to feel, you know, awkward about, it’s just such a sticky subject, you know? You know, it’s more political than anything else, but it’s like political.
No, I’m sorry this plays out in the political arena, but this is about life and death. This isn’t about quality of life, you know, if you wanna talk about immigration crisis or, or drug, uh, policies or anything like that, that’s quality of life. We’re talking about life. Okay. Right, and so most of these pastors are fine, and I am gonna use this specifically hiding behind scripture.
So they only wanna talk about the Bible. They only wanna talk about the gospel, not as if those things are unimportant. Obviously there’s nothing more important than the good news of the gospel, but guess what, if me in your flock, if I don’t know how to apply the truths of the gospel into everyday life, if I don’t know how to push back against a darkness and culture, then what good is that inform.
Because we were given this world to cultivate, right? And not just the land, but the people in the land and everything else inside of it. And so if we operate in this issue, that’s the problem with so many pastors is they don’t wanna talk about the hard subjects because they’re afraid, they’re cowards.
And so it’s guys like me that have to come into churches, burn the place down and walk away.
15:28 Chris Grainger
Right. Do you think that these pastors not know, do they not know how to address it? Kyle? I mean, obviously you. Of course they don’t. Okay. Okay. Well, like
15:38 Kyle Thompson
they, they feel ill-equipped as well because if they knew how to do it, what would prevent them from doing it?
Right. Mm. Imagine handing them a football and say, Hey, throw me a spiral. And they knew how to do it and they just went, uh, I don’t want anyone to be offended by how nice and tight my spiral is. Imagine how stupid that would be. It’s like, I just asked you to throw a spiral. Can you just throw a spiral?
This is one of those situations, and there’s a, a lot of other ones as well that these passers refuse to talk about. They. But they refuse to because guess what? If they make the decision that they’re going to talk about this issue, what are they gonna do? They’re gonna go study, they’re gonna study the arguments on both sides.
They’re gonna learn how to apply scripture to it because I, again, I start my presentation when I present it live with, there’s now therefore no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. So, Right from the jump, I took care of anybody that could possibly feel guilty about having, had an abortion, sat by and watched their girlfriend get an abortion, paid for the girl’s abortion, you know, uh, paid for their daughter to have an abortion so they wouldn’t have to explain to the guys down at the, the local golf, golf lodge or whatever that their little girl’s not actually nice and sweet.
She’s actually a little bit of a skunk. Like all of those people are covered in that particular situation, right? And so it’s like, now can we deal with this tough. Right. I’m not here to condemn you. Okay, so now let’s all be adults. Put on our big boy pants and let’s move forward.
16:51 Chris Grainger
Yeah. I mean, I can’t help but think a lot of it is cuz we’re trying to put on a show versus sharing the truth.
Right? And it’s all about numbers in the seat and, and, and, and, and we’re measuring the wrong metrics versus standing on the truth. I mean, I’m, I’m sure that’s what you’re seeing as.
17:07 Kyle Thompson
When you have these churches that are not concerned about making disciples and then turning those disciples into a process of discipleship, I just talked to Pastor Jo b Martin on my podcast about that specifically, how do you make a, a healthy megachurch where most megachurches are very, very concerned about making you angry.
I don’t mean you, Chris, I mean you, the generalized public, because if they make you angry, you may not show up. And if you don’t show up, they may not be able to count you in your annual report. And if they can’t count you in the annual report, they probably can’t count on you to donate either. They probably can’t, you know, count I said donate, I, I meant to say tithes, but they would probably see it more so as a donation, right?
Like they can’t guarantee anything. And guess what? If they can’t put you into their little formula, their little growth model formula that they paid some guy to come in and basically teach ’em how to do, then they can’t launch that next campus. They can’t launch the one after that, and then they can’t sell more, more content that’s gonna be out on all these other different platforms.
Because they’re not concerned about those things. So they’re never gonna touch abortion. They’re never gonna touch race, they’re never gonna touch, uh, fundamentalist Islam. They’re never gonna touch critical theory. They’re not gonna touch any of these things because partially they don’t wanna do that.
And then they’re gonna hide behind. Well, after you guys start doing the simple things correctly, then we’ll get more theologically deep that that’s not really how this game is played. Right. You don’t have wait until someone’s really, really good at eating milk or drinking milk before you feed them something better.
It’s cuz you’re scared to or ill-equipped to. Yes,
18:22 Chris Grainger
absolutely. So, I mean, if churches are struggling right here, Kyle, with this, you know, where are this the, the most progress being made in that pro-life movement? You know, where are you seeing that? Maybe it’s not within the church, it’s gotta be some areas that are making an
18:35 Kyle Thompson
It’s definitely not within the church. If you look at it as a macro thing, it’s within the conservative political movement. That’s where it’s getting the most amount of grounding. Which is unfortunate because the church should be the forefront. And if you look at Christiandom macro Christiandom, the people that probably do this the best are the Catholics.
And I certainly have my bones to pick with that particular denomination. Yes, I did call it a denomination, but overall they’re the group that has been the most staunchly pro-life from the beginning. Okay. Right. And so, but then whenever you’re. In the conservative movement, you’re gonna have some Catholics and you’re gonna have some atheists, and you’re gonna have some Protestants, and you’re gonna have some Jews, and you’re gonna have this kind of mixture of different people.
That’s why it’s, it’s even. Not even more so, but it’s very, very important to focus on logic and reason and those types of arguments, because that’s going to apply to a myriad of other people. And guess where this plays out when you’re walking around outside the Supreme Court in Washington, DC These are political actors, right?
These are political people holding up political signs saying, this is what I like about this legislation. This is what I don’t like about this legislation. That’s where the argument happens in the public square. It ends up in, in the arena of legisla. That’s why, that’s my one issue. So people be like, don’t be a one issue voter.
Nope. That’s my one issue. If you think it’s okay to murder innocent babies in the womb, I will not under any circumstances vote for you. Cuz I don’t have to vote for one side or the other. I can choose to sit on my hands like I did during the presidential election of 2016. But if you’re not going to legislate in a way that is pro-life, I can’t get behind your tax policy.
I can’t get behind your foreign policy. I can’t get behind anything else.
20:09 Chris Grainger
Mm. You gotta take that stance and make those positions. Some, I’m curious if it’s, if it’s in Congress, if it’s in, if it’s in that political arena. Outside of that, you know, I, I, I’ve, I’ve seen things like 40 Days for Life and there’s other resources out there that really bring a, a lot of value so far as learning and trying to be able to be a voice for the, for the pro-life movement.
Any of the other resources that you find value in that you think that would, what you’d like to share with our listen.
20:36 Kyle Thompson
Yeah, 40 Days For Life is fantastic. Live action produces some of the best stuff in this area. I think they have more followers on all social media than any other pro-life organization that, that we’ve ever seen.
Um, there’s life News and so if you wanna stay up to date on legislation and other different abortion related news across the country and across the globe, those are three that are typically pretty good in terms of like books. Uh, the guys from 40 Days for Life, Sean Carney and Steve Carlin, they wrote a book called What to Say When, which is fantastic, right?
RC Spro wrote a book called Abortion. Those are probably the two, uh, best. I would suggest in in that area. And then, you know, there are, I guess I don’t really know of any like pro-life podcasts. I just know people that talk about the pro-life issue on their show. So that’s something we certainly talk about more than anything else outside of just kind of generalized manhood.
21:18 Chris Grainger
when is, when is your book coming out for pro-life? You gotta have one Many opinions. You got brother?
21:23 Kyle Thompson
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve had a lot of people, uh, reach out about me, me writing a book for any different reason. So it’s probably coming someday, but, you know, we, we’ll just kinda have to see what that looks like.
I mean, I got a two year old and seven month old. It’s like, there’s not extra time in the day. Really. . Um, you know, even this interview I to gotta cut this interview short because like, there’s just not enough time to do all the things I need to do in a day. And so guys, if you’re not satisfied, just with the pdf y paper on our website, there’s nothing I can do to help you.
So on donta.live, Abortion, that’s where you can get access to the white paper that we’re discussing. But that took a lot of time to put together. And if you think about it, that was years and years and years of thinking and reading and reasoning on this topic. And I was able to smoosh it into like a dozen pages on a pdf.
So that’s not good enough for you that there’s nothing really I can do for you.
22:04 Chris Grainger
I love it. And guys, we’ll have that link synced up in the show notes for you. I, I’m curious, Kyle, as we approach Dan, I definitely wanna respect your time here, but I’m curious. Pro foster, pro adoption, how do they come into play when you’re confronted with somebody who has, you know, this worldview here.
So is, does that, does that factor in at all? Do you bring that up?
22:22 Kyle Thompson
Uh, with, with which part of the worldview
22:24 Chris Grainger
so far as that, you know, that people who have that pro-abortion argument, and the next thing you know, you got your pro-life are saying, we need pro-life. We need pro-life. But if you’re gonna be pro-life, you need to be pro foster and pro adoption as well.
And I feel like that sometimes they get, they get, they fall off the train in that convers.
22:39 Kyle Thompson
Do you know anyone that’s pro-life that is anti foster or anti adoption? I just
22:44 Chris Grainger
don’t know ‘
22:44 Kyle Thompson
em to actually talk about it, but No, no, like, but do you know them to be anti those things? No,
22:50 Chris Grainger
not anti those things. Okay.
22:51 Kyle Thompson
that, that’s the beginning and the end of the argument because to pretend as if pro-lifers are anti those things is ridiculous. It is an absolute falsehood. And so part of that is you don’t play into the nonsense of the other side. That’s one thing about my pdf. I don’t give you statements to make back to people.
I give you questions to make back to people. So if someone were to say, well, you only care about the baby before they’re born, you don’t care about the fact that our foster and adoption systems are all broken. I was like, is it possible that those two things aren’t? Right? Or is it possible that you are making things, you know, discussing things in the same way when they should be discussed separately?
Because guess what? A broken foster and adoption system is not a good reason to kill people. Sorry. Yeah. And there are plenty of people waiting to have babies or waiting to adopt babies. The problem is, is the overwhelming majority of babies that otherwise would’ve been adopted or killed via abortion, one fifth of all pregnancies in America, pregnancies in America are ended by abortion, not by.
Now by miscarriage. By abortion. One fifth. And the number worldwide is one quarter. One quarter of all pregnancies end an abortion. So when people wanna get into this debate about foster and adoption, it’s like, yeah, I’m super duper pro those things. Would you stop killing our fricking babies so we can have more people that would be fostered and adopted?
Cuz that would be great if we could make that happen.
24:03 Chris Grainger
Right? I love it, man. I. I mean, Kyle, I’m curious, you know, we’re short on time. I know you gotta go. I wanna respect that. If there’s one thing that you want the listeners to remember or to, to gain from this, from, from all this, you know, heavy work that you put into this document, this resource, rather, what’s the one thing you hope those guys remember and take action on
24:22 Kyle Thompson
in terms of take action?
The thing about it is, if someone’s gonna look at a resource like this and they’re gonna think to themselves, you know, when am I gonna do that? I’m never gonna be on a debate stage where, you know, I’m representing the pro-life cause or any of that. But think about it in the most micro turn that you possibly.
A conversation with a coworker sitting across from each other at lunch, and you’re gonna have a cordial conversation about the least cordial topic possible. That’s why I put this thing out there, so that you would feel confident at whatever they were to say. Because I, I don’t get caught off guard in these pro-life, uh, pro-abortion debates or discussions.
I just don’t get caught off guard because I’ve heard their arguments before. They may sound a little different, but I give you the top 18 arguments that are usually brought out. So it’s gonna be my body, my choice. You only care about the mother, uh, you know, before she gives birth or you only, uh, you know, no uterus, no opinion.
What about if she’s raped? I give you the resources to be able to respond to all that, but also, Even understanding what the pro-life argument is. So very early on, I think page one, we talk about the pro-life arguments two parts. Part one, abortion intentionally and directly kills innocent human life. Part two, it is always wrong to intentionally and directly kill innocent life.
That’s why I’m pro-life because abortion intentionally does something that I am anti, which is directly killing and intentionally killing innocent human life. So just going over that content and having it fresh in your brain is very, very, I. And then you start getting into tactics, understanding that when you talk to somebody of this worldview, when they start losing on one issue, they’re gonna move the goal post over there to start arguing that when they’re gonna move here, move there.
At a certain point it’s pearls of force wine. You’re not gonna change this person’s opinion. But also, I can’t remember if I put it in the document or not, outside of just keeping your cool. The other thing is to ask the person, if you’re wrong about this, do you want to. Like if you’re wrong about something that you claim to be fact, do you want to know that or not?
Right? Because their answer to that question is gonna give you a really good hint as to how fruitful that conversation could potentially be. Because if you say that to somebody, they make a truth claim, and you say, if you were wrong about that truth claim, would you wanna know that? And they’re like, well, I’m not wrong.
Why would you even suggest that I’m wrong? Why would you ever get into a conversation further with that person on this? It’s gonna be such a waste of your time and a waste of your breath. Don’t do it. It’s a complete waste of your time. It’s like fighting with people on Facebook. What am more on, why do you keep doing that?
But the same thing is true if you say, Hey, if you were wrong about that particular statement, would you wanna know that? And they were like, well, I mean, I guess if I were wrong, I really don’t think I am. But I guess I would. I would wanna know. Okay, great. Go ahead and lean in.
26:48 Chris Grainger
Right. Man. I love it, Kyle. Well, man, I know you’re short on time.
Anything else you’d like to share with our, with our listeners today,
26:54 Kyle Thompson
brother? Yeah, so, uh, like I talked about from the top, NTED, life of Man’s podcast is available everywhere you get your podcast. Our website is just undaunted.life and like I told you before, if you wanna get access to this pdf, it’s ted.life/abortion.
I’m sure all that will be in the show notes, but you can find us on social media in all those different areas. But that’s where we’ll live and that’s where.
27:13 Chris Grainger
Guys definitely check out. They show us. We’ll have links for all that stuff for your lion listeners, stay, stay on here. After, after the break, I’m gonna come back.
I’m gonna unpack some scripture around some of these topics that Kyle really laid out eloquently. I love what he did. I just wanna give you guys some scriptures to think about as well as we, as we wrap up. But Kyle, man, it has been an honor. It’s been a pleasure. Always love working with you. How follow you, man?
I will support you. The lion’s all about you, man. So I wish you nothing but blessings for you in the future, my friend. Okay, thanks
27:40 Kyle Thompson
27:43 Chris Grainger
Guys, we’re getting feedback every week from our new community, and I also wanna read one. This is from a member named Paul. He says, I’ve been listening to your podcast religiously for several weeks. I’ve been my own spiritual battle after 38 years on this earth. I just accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior in the last few weeks.
Thank you for your message. I really appreciate everything that I’ve heard from many of your guests have made me question my actions. Thank you so much for your message. Guys, it’s those types of messages and more that you’ll find within our community. So take action right now. Do not miss your opportunity to be part of the engagement, to be part of the conversation, to be part of the areas of health, wealth, and self that we all need to grow as Christian leaders.
So hop over to the line within.us. Join the community today to be the leader God intends you to be.
All right guys. Welcome back from your break here with Kyle Thompson. He had to go, but I wanted to dig a little bit further in this episode to give you guys a little bit more scripture. I know now, Kyle, when we first started having a conversation, he gave the reasons why he didn’t put the scripture in there.
Ultimately, his presentation when he does this, is led with scripture. Okay? But I wanted to unpack a few areas of scripture just to give you some insights and things to think. His number two argument is, is that it’s not a, a human life. It’s like a, a potential life. It’s just a clump of cells. So I went straight to Genesis one and you, you guys are gonna hear me flipping through my Bible on this one cuz I, I’m all over the place.
Genesis 1 27, guy created man in his own image and the image of God. He created him, male and female. He, he created them. So yeah, it’s not when they, when you hear that it’s not a human life, it’s a potential life. No, God created him right. In his own image, the Imago day. And we need to remember that guys. I mean that, that, that’s a really important area.
The third point that he bring, that he brings up, it’s not a human being, it’s a parasite. So when I, when I read that, I went straight to Isaiah and again, I spent some time unpacking the, the scriptures guys. Uh, because I wanted to give you some, some points to think about as you move forward and you have these conversations and they come up.
Yeah. I know you, you know, Kyle, he has a very direct approach to how he, you know, has these conversations and engagements and look, I get it. We need to be able to have that, but at the same time as Christian leaders, it’s good to have a foundation of, of, of, of scripture to base this off of. So go to Isaiah 44, verse 20.
Says, thus says the Lord, your redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, the Lord, and the maker of all things stretching out the heavens by myself and spreading out the earth all alone. So there you go. It’s not a human being, it’s a parasite. What? Wait, hold on. The Lord says, I am the Lord, the maker of all things.
Again. He made it all. He made it all. And we need to remember that guys. And. So many times it can be so easy to just fall into that trap. So where we’re not, we’re not giving him the credit, and we’re not giving understanding truly what the Bible says. We need to dig in and understand. Now, the fifth argument Kyle has in here, it’s not a person until it’s sent it.
Okay? Now that is the scripture that we have for the power versus of the week. This week that I pulled out, Luke 1 41 through 44 says, when E Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting the baby lept in her. Elizabeth is filled with the Holy Spirit and a loud voice she exclaimed. Blessed are you among the women and blessed as a child you will bear.
Why am I so favored that the mother of my Lord should come to me as soon as the sound of your greeting reach my ears, the baby in my womb, leap for joy. So there you go. I mean, what so far is, you know, the sentence standpoint look makes no sense. We know for a fact babies in wombs. I listened to a podcast recently and they, the lady used to run, um, the, the organization, planned Parenthood.
Okay? Now, when she saw a 3D abortion for the first time, she broke down. She completely flipped her, her worldview. She left the organization. It was a great podcast, uh, that, that really opened my eyes because what she saw in that 3d. Was the baby fighting for its life. And I think she even said this was a, a second trimester abortion, if I remember correctly.
But she could see the baby fighting. You know, this is not the way God designed it. The stats that Kyle gave, you know, so far as, as one in five babies in America or one in four in the worldwide, worldwide are aborted. This is a serious pandemic. This is a major issue, and we need to understand, as Christian men, we need to take position here.
We need to understand what God’s word says, and then be able to defend a defenseless. Going back to a conversation with Al Robertson, defend a defenseless. We need to be able to have that in a loving way, obviously, but in a firm way. Okay, in a firm way. Now, his number six argument is it’s not a person until it’s.
I will go straight again. You guys heard me talk about this one with Kyle already. Psalm 1 39. If you go to Psalm 1 39, starting at verse 13 where you form my inward parts, you, you wove me in my mother’s womb. I give thanks to you for ’em, fearfully and wonderfully made wonderful all your works and my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from hidden from you when I was made in secret and skillfully raw in the depths of the earth. Guys, God knows us way before way. We’re born. He put in the work, he built you. He did not make any mistakes whatsoever. We need to remember that guys, we need to remember, need to remember this.
There’s no surprise. Babies. There are plenty, plenty of surprise parents, but no surprise babies. So keep that in mind. Now, the 10th argument he has, and guys, I bounced all over. I’m not, I’m not giving you. The, the arguments that, that Kyle has, cause I want you to go get this download, but the 10th argument he has is, is, is my body my choice?
I went straight. First Corinthians chapter six, let me pull, pull that up here real quick guys. Again, got my by way on my lap. This is how we’re rolling. This episodes a little bit different episode of the line within us, but I think this, you just gotta hang with me. Chapter six verses 19 and 20 says, or do you not know that your body’s a temple of the Holy Spirit?
Who was in you when. Whom you have from God and that you are not your own. Where you have been bought with the price, therefore glorify God in your body. Guys, it’s, it’s, you’re right. It’s not my body, my choice. It’s completely wrong cause it’s nobody’s body. My body’s not my body. Your body’s not your body.
My wife’s body’s not her body, it’s his. We need to glorify it and we under and have an understanding that, look, we get these shells we gotta take care of. We have to take care of them. And the sooner that we understand that, you know what, it’s not, it’s not us. This is not anything that we can do. This is, this is, we’ve been, we’ve been blessed by the opportunity to walk this earth.
First and foremost. Foremost. Now we need to take time to understand that our bodies are built to glorify. Got, all right. Now his 12th argument says, what about in the cases of rape and incest? So flip on over to second Corinthians chapter five verse. Says for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ so that each one may be sed for his deed in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Now, what does that tell us? Rape and incest. We cannot stop the bad that’s gonna happen in this world, but we’re also not the judges. We are not put here to judge. The ultimate judge is God and they will. They will. Those who. Those who, who, who, um, commit incest, guys, they will pay for those sins. But the baby that’s created because of that, it’s not, it’s not theirs to pay.
They are not a penalty. They are fearfully and wonderfully made as well. And also, if you go look at the stats, it’s less than 1% of, of these cases of, of abortion qualify in this. So talking about a minute area of, of actual impact. But at the end of the day, that baby still fearfully wonderfully me. Now, the 14th argument that Kyle makes is what if the baby will be born with some sort of deformity, handicap, or disease?
Okay, well guys, unfortunately, there’s a, there’s a lot of things that that happen in the world. When sin entered a world, we couldn’t stop. Many of these things that are. So if you look at Colossians one, chapter 16, okay, now this is for By Him. All things were created, both in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible.
Whether the thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him. So somebody says, A baby’s gonna be former deformities, or diseases, or things like that doesn’t matter. All things. All things right here and him together. So right now it’s telling. All things were created, both in the heavens on earth, invisible, invisible with the thrones of dominions.
All things have been created through him and for him. There is a purpose for that life. There is a purpose for that life. We cannot play the, you know, judgment seat here. We need to understand there is a purpose for that life. Now, the next argument that Kyle has, we’re gonna, we’re gonna do, uh, one more here, guys.
Uh, argument. 16 he has it’s, and we’re gonna do argument 16 and 18. We’re gonna say we’re 16. Even if the unwanted baby is born, there wouldn’t be a family available to adopt it. And we talked about this a little bit. We were together by having that pro adoption stance. So if you look at Exodus chapter two, we pull that up here real quick, guys.
X is two, one through. We’re talking about, this is the story of Moses. Okay? When Moses was, was, was born and then a man from the house of Levi went and married a daughter, Levi, the woman conceived Laura’s son and when she saw that he was beautiful, she hid him for three months. When she couldn’t hide him any longer, she got a wicker basket and covered it with the, with tar and pitch.
Then she put the child into it instead of Monga re by the bank of an, now her sister stood at a distance to find out what would. The daughter Pharaoh came down to the bathe the Nile, with her MAs walking alongside an Nile. She saw the side alongside the Nile, and she saw the basket on the reeds and sent her maid and she brought it to her.
When she opened it, she saw the child, and behold the boy was crying and she had pity on him and said, this is Warren Hebrew’s children. The sister said that Federal’s daughter, shall I go to call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women that she may nurse the child? Farrow’s daughter said to her, go ahead.
So the girl went and called a child’s mother. Then Farrow’s daughter said to her, take this child away and nurse him for me, and I will give you your wages. So the woman took the child and nursed him. The child grew and, and, and she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter and he became her son, and she named him Moses and said, because I drew him out of the water.
So even if unwanted baby isn’t born, there was right here. It’s a beautiful story of adoption right there, you know? So it’s a great reminder. You know what? He’s gonna, he’s gonna work these things out again. No surprise babies, lots of surprise parents. So if we can just show love and show that you know what, the baby is born, we’re gonna take care of, they need to see that.
Cuz the people who are having these babies who, who are, who are in these moments of distress, they need to feel the love. Okay? And that’s a great story right outta Exodus. So chapter two, one through 10. Now the, the. Area that Kyle talks about that I wanted to pull out again, need to go get this download.
Number 18, you’re pro death. You’re pro death penalty. That means you’re not pro-life. So if you go staying in Exodus, let’s just go over chapter 21 here and look at verse 12, verse four and 12 says, who strikes a man so that he dies will surely be put to death? And that 21, 23 says, but if there’s any further injury, then you shall point as a penalty of life for.
So again, guys, look, you’re, you’re trying to say that an unborn child here is, is the same as somebody who’s committing murder? No, no. God’s going to deal with the people who commit murder, right? If you strike a man so that he dies, you sh shall surely be put to death. Goes right with the, with the commandment about dohow not murder.
That is completely different. So you can be pro death and be, and, and take a stance for, you know, what, for that position and still be pro-life. So just don’t get caught in that trap. And, and guys, as I think through and I wrap, we’re wrapping up this conversation here today, this episode, you know, pro argument, this conversations are tough and Kyle really called out the church and I I co I totally get it.
I mean, I get it. I mean, you very rarely ever hear topics like this discussed in. They’re, they’re tough to talk about. They are, um, you know, make people uneasy. You worried about hurting people’s feelings, things like that. But at the end of the day, that’s not what being a line’s all about. Being a line is stand within truth.
Now standing for truth. Now, you may be a guy listening right now who’s had this impact your life. I want to remind you the final scripture, and Kyle, I believe Kyle talked about it night. We talked about it off air of Romans eight. Therefore there, therefore, now there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.
We need to remember that you’re not condemned, you’re not, you know, those, those thoughts of combination of, of, I’m bad, I’m terrible, I’m a sinner. I, I should not, I can’t be forgiven. Those are from Satan. Once you turn your life over to Christ and you let him be the, the, the head and guide you guys, the combination goes away.
That’s just hard for some guys to. It can be hard to accept forgiveness. It can. So in these conversations, again, if you’re finding yourself down this path of, of, of wanting to take a pro-life stance, I highly encourage you to check out, you know, 40 Days for Life, some of the resources. Again, Al Robertson, we talked about that at length in his episode, definitely go back and check that out.
But guys, there are so many resources out there that serve you well in this area, and I really want you to think about that as you move forward. So the question, this. What ways do you stand for pro-life? Just think about it. Does, does anyone even know that you’re pro-life? If they don’t, you know, then that’s on you.
Maybe you need to make some changes here. So guys, this has been a powerful conversation. Again, this is one that, uh, it’s not gonna be popular to everybody. We may lose some listeners, but guys, we have to talk about the hard things. So if you enjoyed it, I encourage you to share it with other people. Share it with other people.
I mean, this is, this is how the line grows. This is how we get our message out. It’s about you taking action and sharing. Give us a rating, a write, a review. That’s really important. Go to the lion within us that’s gonna have all our resources. Join our community as a community is the best way to engage with us.
Every week. And guys, we have lion lunches going on. We have bible studies, we have courses, we have events, we have masterminds, we have a form, we have all sorts of ways to serve you. We have, uh, eBooks and downloads. Guys, we’re building things to serve you in your journey, and the only way you’re gonna get it is by being part of our community.
So again, the line with N Us join, right? Guys, I hope to see you back on Friday for a fun Friday, a bunch of tips. I’m gonna give you some, some really fun things, some things that hopefully will make a positive impact in your life. So I pray this message serves you well, that you learn something, and I highly encourage you.
Again, go check out the resources for that that we have for you in our show notes that’s going to help you. All right, guys. Come back on Friday, we’ll see you then. Go out, unleash the lion within.
Kyle drops a ton of wisdom and straight truth that needs to be considered. As Christian leaders we need to be prepared to engage in these conversations as the ones you are defending literally have no voice. There is no such thing as a surprise pregnancy in God’s eyes and we are not called to sit on the sidelines while these innocent lives are taken.
Kyle covers a ton of ground including where the church has failed to protect the unborn, how pastors hide from hard issues and how this issue is battling in the political arenas.
Chris shares scriptures that provide further resources when considering how to take action and why being pro-life takes more than just words. These types of topics matter and knowing how to address them with Truth is key.
Buckle up as this conversation fully unleashes the Lion Within!
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