00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast sermon, Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in our guys. This is your meet episode of the week, and you know we’re gonna start. We’re scripture because that’s how we start every episode of the Lion within us this week.

The scripture’s outta Galatians chapter five, verses 22 and 20. But the fruit of spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control against such things. There is no law. Now, if you miss the spiritual kickoff, go back and check that out. I really unpacked that scripture in depth.

And guys that really set us up for our conversation today, I have, this is gonna be a little bit different episode of the line within us, by the way. Okay. Well, what do I mean? Well, we recorded, I recorded this episode with, with Dr. Mike Frazier. He is our guest. We’ll give you a brief intro to hi of, of him here in a.

But we recorded this episode and we’re each dropping it on our, on our own shows. So Doc, Dr. Mike is dropping it on his show. I’m dropping this on the line within us, so it, the format may sound a little different. I do a little more talking. Sometimes he does more talking. We’re back and forth. So it’s, it’s interesting, the dynamic.

I just wanted to give you that warning up front that this is not just traditional line within us. But we really talk about marriage, the confines of marriage, what that looks like, how you can apply the, the fruit of the spirit into your marriage and what you should be looking for. So guys, we covered a lot of areas.

And again, Dr. Mike Frazier, he’s, he’s a wonderful guest. He’s, he’s a high, he helps high achieving Christian men have more intimate marriages. So again, he’s a doctor. He went to B y u. He has some great things at, at, uh, at that he did in college as well as attending U C L. And he is doing some, some, some areas with Christian men that are really helping them with, with their marriage struggles, with trust, communication, and intimacy.

They’re the three big areas he worked, that he focuses on, and him and his wife, they, they struggled in some of these areas as well. So as they struggled together to rebuild their marriage, he used a lot of the Christian principles to, and, and to create this program and therapy that he has to help.

Christian couples have intimate marriages, so, He, it was a wonderful conversation. Dr. Mike is a, just a fun guy. Uh, we had a lot of, uh, lot of good back and forth together. So I’m, I’m thinking there’s gonna be several areas that we talk about that are, you’ll be able to pull directly and apply to your marriage.

And again, that’s what we’re all about, how we simplify and apply God’s word. So God’s word this week is Galatians 5 22 and 23. How can we apply this, this verse to our marriages? We spend a lot of time talking about patience, so. That’s, I’m speaking to every guy listening, , including me, chief center, here, patience and what does that look like, as well as some other areas.

So I’m not gonna hold him back any further. Hope you guys enjoy my conversation with Dr. Mike Brazier.

04:09 Dr. Mike Frazier
So a little bit about me for, for you guys listening on the line within us. So, you know, I’m Mike Frazier, md, so I trained as a psychiatrist.

Um, but I do marriage coaching now for men. So, you know, guys that are Christian guys, high achieving Christian guys. So you’ve got, you know, maybe your intimate life isn’t quite where you want it. Um, you are maybe recovering from infidelity. Or maybe something more serious like separation or you’re near a divorce.

You know, I help guys work through that. Um, through applying, you know, Christian principles. Really to me, my job is to help us, you know, just like Chris was saying, you know, become closer to Christ. Like a good husband is someone that is following Christ as close as you can. Mm-hmm. . Um, and we just use, you know, the tools from psychiatry and psychology and coaching and, you know, therapy and all that to you.

Use the, the learnings from science and apply them to biblical principles and, uh, really become, uh, the way I like to put it is strong, you know, strong across all areas, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and sexual. So that’s kinda what we’re doing. But, uh, but yeah, like Chris was saying, I think it’s just so important that we have.

um, you know, communities of guys too that are working together in this way. Uh, so it’s been fun to meet, you know, guys like Chris and some other people I’ve had in the podcast that are, you know, on that same, same track. Um, but yeah. On your sectors, what got you kind of into that, this whole field and the bad thing?

05:41 Chris Grainger
Yeah, I mean, I think some of it is just God has a sense of humor, right? , I mean, so I have a, I have a, uh, I live, live with three daughters and my wife, so I’m literally the only male in my house and. So I have another podcast. It’s a secular podcast, but it’s, it’s for, for, uh, an industrial focus show. And then God just laid it on my heart.

He’s like, all right, I, I’ve gave you this skill. Now I want you to use it to glorify me, and I want you to do it. To teach men around to teach, you know, Christian men about leadership. Man, I’m like, you gotta be kidding me, . So, um, we just leaned into it, man, Mike, and, and, and it’s been awesome and the guys are listening and, and engaging.

Our community is growing. Again, it’s everything but the line within us is about serving others. So I try to do everything possible to make every episode not about me and about the guest and the topic and, and the listener most importantly, because that’s ultimately who we’re trying to impact. So, uh, it’s been, we’ve kept that focus and God has really blessed it, and, and it’s been an incredible journey.

And, and I’m, I’m excited to learn from you. Uh, for, for our listeners, because obviously you’re the smart one of this group, , and I’m perfectly cool with that. You know, so, so let, just, just feed me man. Feed me. I’m looking forward to learning.

06:54 Dr. Mike Frazier
All right. Well that sounds good. Uh, well, you know, Chris, that we had decided to really, to take a scripture to look at today.

So in, uh, Galatians five, uh, 22 through 23, so I’m looking at the new international version. Mm-hmm. There’s lots of different versions out there, but, um, you know, talking about the fruits of the spirit, so, you know, when it comes to. , uh, marriage or, you know, just leadership in general. You know, the, the big commandment is, you know, love God, right?

And then love your neighbor as yourself. Mm-hmm. . And so, and I think the, the scripture about the fruits of the spirit helps us kind of figure out if we are. , you know, behaving in a way that’s loving or, or not, and can give us some direction too as far as, you know, how do we want to show up in a marriage.

Um, and, uh, you know, that’s my particular focus. But of course it extends to other areas as well. Fatherhood and all that. Um, mm-hmm. . . So yeah, I’ll go ahead and read it. So it says, but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Again, such there is no law.

Um, so yeah, I mean, I have some thoughts on the, on some of those, but, um, but yeah, you’d said, Christie, you’d had kind of some questions too, you’d wanted to go over. What kinda, what were you looking at?

08:22 Chris Grainger
I mean, I’m, I’m glad you went there. So, for our, for our listeners, I actually unpacked this scripture in a spiritual kickoff earlier this week.

And, and I love it. Now, your version says, forbearance. I, my version says, patience. And for me, when I look at the fruit of Spirit, , uh, this is a self like, uh, uh, reflection moment here. That is the fruit that is least prevalent in my life. Patience, . I think for a lot of our guys listening, you know, you pro you guys can probably relate patience.

You know, we, we, we want, we want stuff now. We want it done our way, we want it done immediately. And this whole self-gratification thing, like we, we just don’t wait. I mean, ever since the invention of microwave, it’s just been downhill. Right. , we just we want it fast. So I’m curious, your take on, on, on certain fruits, maybe patience could be one of them.

From a, from a, from a, a biblical standpoint, from a Christian. You know, what, do you see this as a common area of struggle for Christian men? And what, what’s your advice on you, me improving that? Yeah, absolutely.

09:18 Dr. Mike Frazier
So, you know, I think when I looked up the definition of patients a while back, you know, it says to bear without complaint.

Um, and I like, I like that definition a lot. It’s like, okay, you know, stuff’s gonna happen. , but am I going to complain about it or not? . Right, right, right. like stuff happens. It’s hard, you know, in, uh, in marriage is, uh, you know, where I talk about, but just in general in life and can I go through that time, you know, without whining about it, just because usually that doesn’t take you.

anywhere, especially productive. Um, and I think too also, you know, to your point about having faith, right? Like when we get impatient, we’re, we’re kind of saying, okay, you know, this needs to happen within this timeframe. Mm mm-hmm. . And a lot of times those things depend on other people, like with your wife, some, so guys will come into the program, right.

And I, my program’s 90 days. You know, sometimes I want the changes this week. Right. Um, because the thing that’s hard when you approach a, a marriage Right, is you sort of feel those changes internally really fast. Like you feel, oh, actually I am feeling the fruits of the spirit. I am feeling love, I am feeling, you know, caring.

I don’t feel as upset with my wife. Right. Right. Uh, and they feel those changes pretty. From the way that we approach things. Um, but their wife doesn’t necessarily see that right away, right? Or at least doesn’t trust it right away. Um, you know, if you’ve come at her from a resentful place for a long time, um, because, oh look, look at everything I do for you, but you don’t have sex with me.

Or, you know, I provide for the family, but you know, you don’t appreciate me for that. You know, if your mind’s been there for a long time, you know when you suddenly shift that and you’re like, oh, shoot, like there’s stuff I need to work on and my wife is actually doing a lot, and you start appreciating her, you know?

You sort of hope that right at first he’s gonna be like, oh my gosh, like this is the husband I always wanted, uh, thank you. I love you. You know, let’s, let’s head to bed together. But it doesn’t typically work out that way. Right? Like your wife is probably happy about the changes, but also kind of like, you know, this is weird and.

Is this gonna last? Right? Is kind of a bigger right. The bigger question on her mind, like mm-hmm. , are these mm-hmm. are these changes for real? Especially if there’s something more serious like infidelity or, you know, separation’s really bad because you’ve basically taught her, okay, like the way to get me to behave is to say, you’re gonna leave , right?

And so now, now you’ve kinda like, you’re like, oh no, I’m better now. And then she’s like, well, if I come back now your motivation’s gone. Right? And so, right. Patience is a huge one that we talk about, you know, in the program is, and to me it’s like it’s really shifting. What’s the result that you’re going for, right?

Hmm. Okay. So, you know, the result that we get impatient about right, is like, the result I want is for my wife to appreciate me more. Let’s say that’s the result you want, right? And so when that’s your. First of all, you become manipulative because you’re trying to make her do something, right? Mm-hmm. , you’re trying to make her appreciate you.

Um, but the second thing that happens is like, yeah, you start getting impatient with that cuz you’re like, okay, like, when’s she gonna do it? When’s she gonna do it? Right? When’s she gonna start? Appreciate me finally. Um, versus if you make your intention like, Hey, you know what, and this is, it’s so cool when I see you guys make this shift, like you can like, feel it in them, you know, they’re just like, , you know, I’m in this for the long haul, right?

Yeah. I’m doing this because this is who I want to be as a husband. I don’t care how my wife responds. Would it be great if she was. Appreciative. Sure. Like that’s probably better than if she’s not. But it doesn’t change like your goal. Right? Right, right. Because your goal is just based on me being who I want to be, right?

Me looking to God and trying to please God by the way I’m behaving. So when that really becomes your focus, patience starts to be a lot easier because you’re, you’re like, no, I’m actually already. , I’m already hitting my goal. I’m already behaving in a way that I want to behave. So now you can kind of settle, right?

And you’re just like, oh, like I’m already there. I can feel good about the way I’m behaving. I can feel proud of that. Um, so then, yeah, you’re not like, oh, like, when’s you gonna, when’s you gonna change? Right? Because Right. That’s not your goal anymore. Your goal is being the man you want to be.

13:56 Chris Grainger
Mm-hmm. . And that’s, I mean, it’s such an important area and some, and I think that’s one.

Us as guys. We get it wrong so often, right? I mean, we’re, we’re trying to force so many things. Mm-hmm. on our narrative, and we’re also looking for our wife to make us happy. And that, and guys, I tell guys all the time like, wrong, that’s not her job to make you happy. You know, so when you got that worldview and you’re trying to, trying to, to, to make all these things fit into the confines of your marriage and you’re trying to just force this round hole in, in a square, p I mean, it’s just, it’s just not going to align at all.

Yeah. You.

14:28 Dr. Mike Frazier
Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. So that’s kind of my thought, but what I, I didn’t hear your, your one you did this week. What was your kind of take on the patients area?

14:39 Chris Grainger
For me, the patience area is, when I was talking about it with guys, I really wanted to, similar ways just focus on, look one, when we think, when we pray for any of this fruit, first of all it’s fruit that has to grow.

Okay. Yeah. And, and I, and I reminded them that a good tree can’t bear bad fruit and a bad tree can’t bear good. And also when you ask for these, when you ask for patience, what is guy gonna give you? He’s not just gonna be a genie and just like pop, okay, now you have patience. Right? And, and just wave his little magic wand.

What he gives us is an opportunity to be patient. Yes. And then we have to, and the more we exercise that muscle. Just stronger it gets. And so I re I related it to working out, right, because a lot of people are guys, they that listen, they work out. Yep. You go to the gym, you want to get stronger in your upper body.

You know what you, you, you stress that upper body and then you give it rest and the next time you come back and you stress it a little bit more and you, and then that little rip, you’re ripping those muscles, they’re, they’re healing, they’re coming back stronger. And that’s the same thing with every one of these fruit.

Mm-hmm. and for patient. An opportunity to be patient. Then you exercise that opportunity and like you said, it’s not always gonna be fun. And then, and then next thing you know, you’ll have another opportunity. And then as you grow that fruit is just gonna become stronger and stronger and that’s just gonna be a part of who you are.

And then others are gonna see that. So that was kind of my, my area when I was pointing people to patients and talking about it. And the spiritual

15:57 Dr. Mike Frazier
kick all. Yeah, totally. No, I love it. Yeah. Um, I, I like the, you know, the, the analogy of a tree or, you know, with my guys, a lot of times I talk about, you know, the law of the harvest, right?

Mm-hmm. . And so, you know, for the most part, once someone comes to work with me, they’ve laid down bad seeds in their marriage for a long time. Um, whether that was really obvious to them or whether they’re kind of just realizing, oh, shoot, like the way. You know, thought about this relationship, you know?

Mm-hmm. about, about her being responsible for making me happy, like you said, or the other thing that happens. So, you know, for me, I’m gonna be coming out with a book next year. Uh, working title’s, happy Wife, happy Life is a lie because it just is . It just is because you, you kind of, if you go about trying to make your wife happy all the time, , you get kind of tired of that after a while, right?

Mm-hmm. . Um, cuz you’re also expecting her to make you happy back, as you mentioned. Um, and yeah, that there’s like some sort of way you can sort of get her in her debt, in your debt to owe you back, you know? It just doesn’t, it just doesn’t work, so, right. Um, yeah. So coming back to the idea of like the seeds, right?

If you’ve had that mindset for a long time, you’ve kind of put bad seeds down for a long time and now you’re reaping her not being attracted to you. You know, maybe, uh, again, maybe if you’ve been in pornography or things like that, you know, you’re reaping the, um, the harvest of that, you know, low trust.

Yeah. Sexuality is kind of messed up. Um, so you, you know, the, the guys that come in that. They’re realizing it, right? And again, they, they like feel those changes. But what I try to explain to them is, Hey, look man, you’ve planted those seeds for 5, 10, 20 years. Like, you’re gonna be reaping that harvest for a while.

Like now you’re laying down the good seeds, you know that harvest will come, but it is going to also, you know, be delayed. Right? It’s gonna take some time, right? Um, you’re just, you’re just at a seed face, right? Like it’s gotta, it’s gotta grow, uh, for a while. And she’s gotta see that consistency, you know, for a.

18:13 Chris Grainger
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Yeah, I mean, I literally just taught about this in our, in our Sunday school class in, in James, where he is talking. The harvester, the farmer, and you know, they, they, the spring and the autumn rains as well as the harvest. Both of those, you had to persevere and you had to exercise patience. Yep. You know, back in the first century, you know, we didn’t have John Deere tractors and, you know, we couldn’t go out there and irrigate with, with irrigation systems.

So they, they really relied upon the Lord to provide that rain in those seasons. But they also, to your point, they had to put in the work. Yep. You know, They had to put in that work upfront and do that work and then, you know, trust that God is gonna come through and that the blessing’s gonna come. But you know, we, we have to remember, we’re called to act too.

We can’t just sit back on our heels and wait for it and just hope stuff gets better. Um, we have to take action as Christian men, and ultimately if we take the right action and we’re plant the right seed, then yes it will. Good

20:04 Dr. Mike Frazier
fruit. Yeah, exactly. And it’s, um, yeah, and you know, it’s not always how we expect it.

Uh, it’s not, it’s often not on the timeframe that we’re hoping or expecting. No. ,

20:17 Chris Grainger
no, he’s never on a timeframe. I always tell people, man, God is, timing is perfect. He’s just never early. Right. I mean, so it’s never on a time on our time.

20:26 Dr. Mike Frazier
Uh, yeah. So, so again, that idea of, of patience and faith, right? Right. I think impatience often stems from that lack of faith, right?

It’s like, okay, you know, when’s it gonna be here? But really behind that is a fear that it’s not gonna happen, right? Yeah. Like, yeah, it’s, it’s not ever coming. . Right. Um, so, you know, you, you think nothing’s gonna happen. I’m never gonna get there. You start, start feeling down, you start feeling anxious, you know?

Mm-hmm. , all those things. Christ asked us not to feel, you know, not, don’t fear, you know, that’s what he says a lot. Um, but yeah, impatience and fear are, are linked. You know, the fear is it’s not gonna happen. What I want isn’t never gonna happen. . So, yeah. You know, trusting that as I do these good works, you know, God is going to reward that with a harvest at some point, right?

Yeah. Um, it, it does, it keeps you going, it keeps you planting, it keeps you, you know, , uh, it keeps you doing all those, uh, all those, uh,

21:31 Chris Grainger
works. Well, I, I’m just curious from your per perspective, Mike. I mean, you, you work with so many different men out there in Christian couples and marriage, and you’re trying to really make that marriage, uh, you know, be the, the, the most fruitful to kind of stick with our theme here.

Yep. , uh, as possible. H how have you seen that marriage drift? You know, the, the, the view of marriage drift from the original design that God intended to the way it is right now? There’s a big , there’s, there’s been a big shift. Right. So, I mean, just curious from your perspective, what’s been the biggest shift in the, in the, in the design of marriage that we’ve taken on?

Yeah.

22:05 Dr. Mike Frazier
You know, it’s a good question. I think, you know, we look at the, the Bible, right? It says, you know, leave father and mother and become one flesh. Right? Right. Right. So to me, the way I, I kind of think about that and look at that is, you know, a alignment, right? Mm-hmm. , certainly physically sexually, you want that, that connection.

Um, but also mentally, emotionally, spiritually, you want to be one. Right? And I think a, a few, you know, problematic things with that have happened over time. I think, you know, one is the idea that, oh, . You know, if, if my spouse isn’t doing exactly what I want, I’ll just go get another one. Yeah. There’s, there’s not like a long-term commitment there.

Oh, my, my, my wife’s not quote unquote meeting my needs, and so. You know, I’m justified then in leading this relationship because she’s not, again, meeting, I don’t, I don’t like that phrase at all. actually really hate it. The, um, that idea of like, meeting my needs. Yeah. Um, but um, yeah, it’s kind of like, and even a lot of sort of, um, Traditional marriage counseling, kind of one way or another, sort of backs that idea up.

It’s kind of like, Hey, you know, you just do what I want and you know, I’ll do what you want and then we’ll be okay. Right? Yeah. And there’s some truth to that, right? Like you do want to try to do things, things for the other person that they appreciate, right? Kind of help them in ways that they recognize and like, I think there’s definitely truth to that, but the, the problem happens where it’s.

Hey, you know, I’m doing all this for you, but you’re not for me. Right? Yeah. And so now I don’t have to do what I said I’d do cuz you’re not doing what you said you would do. So it becomes very just contractual, like, Hey, you didn’t fill your side so I don’t have to fill my side of the Yeah. Of the deal.

And I think that’s a lot of what’s happening. Um, I’ve heard it call it just like keeping score. Right. Keeping score in marriage. Yeah. Well, like I, I did 10 things for you. You only did two. You know, I’m not gonna do anything for you now,

24:20 Chris Grainger
like, yeah. I’m curious your take man. Cause when, when you were going through that, I immediately and my brain went to something I talked to guys a lot about, and it’s, it’s the view of a covenant versus a contract.

Hmm. And you know, a lot of times we view marriage like a contract. And the contract’s, I mean, just go back to any contract you ever signed it. Basically it says if you, then I Right. Right. And that’s that. And that’s it. Covenant is no matter what I do. Right. You know, so we have to remember that. But also I, I just see too many times where we tried to put the confines of marriage.

And this contractual type thinking. Mm-hmm. to your point. I mean, that’s where it gets wrong, man. If you’re trying to, to find happy or, or get your expectations and, and, and get all your boxes filled from your wife, that’s not her job. Right. You know, I mean, you entered a covenant with her together and the whole point of marriage is to glorify God.

I mean, if we’re not focused on that, you know, it’s not about you being happy, her being happy, it’s about glorifying God together. Uh, and, and, and, and that contractual type thinking, man, I just think it’s robbing us of so much joy in our marriages.

25:21 Dr. Mike Frazier
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Cause um, the thing is, even when you get what you were asking for it, you don’t, you’re not even that happy because you’re like, well, fine.

Like, you finally did what you were supposed to do anyway, , so, right. It’s about time, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, so yeah, I think. , you know, that’s a big issue. And to your point of that, like covenant, like, Hey, I’m gonna do. Again, just cuz that’s who I want to be. Like that’s what I decided. That’s the kind of husband I’m going to be regardless of how you behave.

Now, where that can get you into trouble, right, is if you go so far into that, that you don’t. You don’t like represent yourself in the marriage anymore? Mm-hmm. Like, you can, you kinda lose yourself. Uh, you’re trying so hard to like, make your wife happy that you, you never like tell her when you have a different opinion or you never, you know, ask for the things that you actually want or, uh, you know, this happened to me, right?

Like I’m, I’m turning down work opportunities to be home. Uh, I’m, you know, basically turning down everything just to be home more. Cuz I thought, oh, like that’s what I’m supposed to do now. Um, that’s not, that’s not that healthy either. Right? If you just, I like the idea of, uh, this is from Stephen Covey, but the idea of win-win in a marriage.

Mm-hmm. , right? Like, you wanna both be winning when it comes to money, sex in-laws, parenting, religion, housework, how you spend your time, right? You wanna both feel like. , you know, we, we both feel good about where we’re at here. Um, you know, for mayors to work long term, it, it needs to be that way. Right? Or, because if you’re just like, feel like, man, I’m losing, I’m losing, I’m losing.

I guess that’s what God wants me to do, but I’m really kind of hating. A lot of the way our marriage is set up right now, , like, right? That’s, that’s not great either. You know, you need to be able to, um, come in and ask for the things you want in a clear way, uh, and then be able to also listen to your wife’s side and really work towards something you both feel good about.

Um, to me, marriage is the best place to practice. Love your neighbor as yourself. Um, and to me that means love your neighbor equally to yourself, not more than. to where you totally lose yourself and like hate your life, and also not less than yourself to where you’re like, Hey, it’s what I say goes, and I don’t really care what you think.

Like we’re, we’re gonna do it my way. You know, it’s really learning. How do we balance both those, like both of us being in this marriage and being represented, but even like expanding on. Um, I like to think of like the water molecule, right? It’s got oxygen and it’s got hydrogen. Um, so on their own, they do their own cool things in nature, but when they come together right, they make something even better.

Right. They make water. Yeah. And elements that’s, that’s different than both of them, but still, like they’re still hydrogen and oxygen within it, right? They haven’t, right, right. Lost themselves. They’re still in it. Um, so I think that’s a pretty, I like that analogy. Um, like, you don’t have to lose yourself.

You, you want to bring yourself and learn from each other and grow, and you kind of bump into each other a lot in marriage, but it, it, it smooths you out, right? It helps you, right. Become stronger. It helps you. Come closer to God. You know, you, you kind of point out to each other, Hey, like, that’s a little bit off , like the way you’re, you’re thinking or behaving there.

And at first like, oh, you know, don’t say that. But then eventually you kind of, you’re like, oh, you know, maybe, maybe he’s right, maybe she’s right. Maybe there is something I can improve there. Right. And, um, yeah, that’s, that’s the the cool thing about, about marriage, if you’ll take it, you know, it can be a really great growing experience.

29:14 Chris Grainger
Yeah. And I, I mean so many times too, to that win. Concept one. One area I see a lot of guys getting mistaken is this whole submission. You know, they go straight to what the Bible says about what, you know, why I submit to your husband? Yeah. But then they, then they just stop reading for some reason. I don’t know why guys stop reading at that part.

because it, if you keep reading , right, you know, you really get the full picture of what it looks like and, and understanding, you know, it’s serving each other, you know, in a marriage and, and serving each other. And sometimes, you know that serving is fun. Sometimes that serving is not . I mean, it just, it’s a sacrifice, right?

So, I just feel like so many times we have this idea of this picture of this, and maybe it’s like, uh, hallmark movies and stuff like that. It’s completely screwed up. You know, the hap the fair, happy every after and all that stuff, and they, you paint all these wonderful things, the snow falling down and stuff, you know, all this craziness of just like these magical fairy tales where , in real life marriages work.

It really is work and you have to put in the work, but ultimately, if you do, there’s so much that God wants to bless you with within the confines of that marriage. If you do it right and you submit to each. And then ultimately you’re submitting to him. I mean, he’s got to be the ultimate guide force and where you’re going as a couple.

And I just think that’s, that’s where so many couples, man, they really get off track. Yeah,

30:28 Dr. Mike Frazier
yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. You know, it’s easy to get, um, thrown off in a different ideas and you know, things like that. Yeah. When we’ve got that anchor of God, the Bible in Christ, like, then you’re not gonna get pulled off into all these kinda weird mm-hmm.

weird.

30:46 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Now you, now you’ve mentioned it several times already about you work with couples a a lot around, you know, sexuality, intimacy and being able to come together. Cuz I sometimes, so many times, man, I, I’ll be honest, I talked to a lot of guys and they, they are, you know, Romeo up until that I do moment.

So after that I do moments. The pursuit stops. Yeah. And I’m like, bro, you gotta keep dating your wife even every, all the time. You never stop pursuing her. . And so do you see that, what, what some of the guys you’re coaching, does that, does it stop at that moment?

31:20 Dr. Mike Frazier
Yeah, no, it’s a good question. So I think in, in a Christian framework, especially, this can happen, right?

Where you’re kind of like, okay, um, you know, for, for some Christian guys, you know, they’ve decided not to have sex and tell marriage. Mm-hmm. Or you know, at the very least, like once you, once you are married, you’re kinda like, Hey, this is it, right? Like, you’re the person that I’m gonna have sex with. I’m not gonna have sex with anybody else.

So what can happen is the guy kind of feels like it’s owed to me. now. Right? Um, especially if they’ve kinda waited until sex in, until marriage and they’re like, oh, like finally, you know, finally I get to have sex. Um, and then once they’re in it, they’re kind of like, Hey, like, I’m not exercising my other options here.

And so like, it’s your job to meet this again, meet this need, right? Meet this need for me. So that idea. being owed sex, right? Is a killer for attraction, right? Mm-hmm. like your wife is not attracted to you if you think you’re just owed it because, because you’re married. Right? Right, right. Not attractive.

The other thing that guys will do is try to kind of earn it like by doing nice things, you know, by cleaning up, by doing the five love languages. Um, also not attractive the way that. And And women can tell, right? They can tell if you clean the dishes. Your wife needed some help or because you wanted sex for doing that, right?

Right. , like they could pick it up and so, you know, like I call out the mosquito cycle, the mosquito cycle being you do nice things, but you’re expecting back attention, appreciation, affection, sex, um, and then cause you like trying to suck it off. Right? Yeah. You’re, you’re trying to drain her of that. Um, yeah, she doesn’t like him.

It’s, it’s manipulative. It pushes her away. Um, so I think those two forces a lot of times come in once a Christian Guy gets married where he kind of feels owed it just because they’re married and he kind of feels owed it because maybe he’s the one providing for the family. And, um, you know, and then on top.

You know, he’s owned it just for those things. But then additionally, if he’s like helping with the kids or cleaning dish, helping around the house now, like, Hey, come on. Like, you really owe it to me now , right. And so, right. Uh, but, but to me, right, the way, the way I, I tell the guys is really, that’s treating her like a prostitute in a way.

Yeah. . Yeah. You’re like, Hey, I did this. Now it’s time. Right? Um, and, and then they’re surprised when their wife isn’t attracted by that, right? They’re like, no, like I, I did all this stuff. She owes it to me. Why, why won’t she do it? But it’s that whole kind of mindset of, you know, she owes it to me, that is killing it.

34:11 Chris Grainger
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Yeah. I mean, as this whole workspace, righteousness, I mean, you’re trying to work your way in and, and it’s, and so whenever I hear that, you know, Immediately I go, in my brain, you’re serving out of selfish needs versus just a servant heart. Yeah. Your heart’s not in the right place. Yeah. So if, if you really wanna serve your wife, and maybe if, if that is her love language, maybe access service is her love language, yeah.

Then, then do it, but do it with the right intention without any, you know, expectations of something to come and, and, you know, in the future, if you just actually just love her in that. God’s gonna bless that. You know, it will come again. You may have to exercise that patience that we talked about earlier, but it will come.

You just have to, just to give it time. But I just feel like there’s so many times with what I see with God too, is we say, we say I do, and then the whole pursuit of just them in general stops. You know, it’s almost like we had the roommate and we’re we, we, we become just more buddies than we are, you know, intimate partners that in life.

And what, what I’m trying to tell guys a lot is, look man, you, this is a, if you stop working on your marriage, it will fail. I mean, Satan wants your marriage to fail. He does. He, and he’s gonna do everything he can to attack and he’s gonna attack it with your calendar, with kids, with all these great things that are, that are actually, they seem really good, but at the end of the day, they could be pulling you and her a a apart from each other.

Yeah. And I’m trying to help guys to remember that look. You gotta fight for this, you gotta invest in your marriage. You have to invest in each other. And that means time and money , where you have to really spend time and, and that take, and that’s, you know, a date night does not have a kid there. That to clear that, that air up.

Like some guys, well I go on date night, we have the kids. I’m like, that’s not a date, bro. Yeah, that’s just going out to dinner. like, or if you go to dinner and all you do is talk about the kids, like stop, like I get it. There’s a moment for that. But there also, there’s a moment for true connect. And, and sometimes guys just, they’re struggling with that.

So I don’t know if you’re seeing that too, but that’s common areas that I’m seeing with, with guys that are in the lines then that we’re trying to help ’em

36:57 Dr. Mike Frazier
with. Yeah, no, for sure. I think it’s, um, yeah, you, you do need to prioritize that time and make it happen. You know, I, I definitely recommend the weekly date night having some time to connect just the two of you each day.

Um, right. Even if it’s not a lot depending. You know, your situation just, but still just like making that a priority. Mm-hmm. ,

37:21 Chris Grainger
I’ll tell you a story. So there , and, and I’ve picked on this guy before, but I love him and he loves me. So we’re, it’s all good. He’s in the mission field, he does mission work and we, I was coaching him and he was part of our program and we working together and one of the things I, well, I was challenging him on was, look, some, let’s work on some, one area of your marriage that I’d like for you to work on is a connection with your wife and how often do you pray together?

And he looked at me like I had three. And he’s like, man, I don’t really pray with her. I’m like, bro, you’re in the missionary field. Like this is, this is your, what you do. He’s like, let’s be honest. It scares me. And, and like, I don’t know how to do it. I’m like, bro, very simple. Just, all you have to do is really literally walk up to her and just ask her, how can I pray for you?

Now, the first time you ask her that she may pass out, pick her up off the floor, you know, make sh make, make, bring her bag, and then. And then whatever she says, all you have to do is just do the McDonald’s, just repeat it back to her. Yeah. , you know, repeat that back and let her know that you hear that sh because that tells her that you hurt her.

Yeah. Right. And then it starts building a little muscle and that thing starts off as a, that like the first time going to the gym, it’s gonna hurt, but it will get better. But I tell you, man, daily prayer with your wife, for me, that’s, that’s a non-negotiable. That’s something that, that Becca and I, we, we really instituted a lot over the last.

And it’s been mo, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely led to a, another level of intimacy. And I’m not talking about sexual intimacy, right? I’m just talking about intimacy where connection as, as, as, as Chris and Becca together, uh, that we did not have before. And I think it’s, I can only attribute it to God, the Holy Spirit.

He’s leading us and he’s bringing us together. He’s drawing us together because we’re trying to draw closer to him. I know what’s going on in her life. She knows what’s important to me, and we’re praying about that together, and that’s just strengthening our marriage. It’s intimidating for a lot of guys when you want to just simply say, well, just pray with your wife.

So many of ’em are just like, I’d rather do anything to try to play with my wife. It just, it really scares me. .

39:17 Dr. Mike Frazier
Yeah, no, I, I love that and I think, um, yeah, you know, praying together with her about, you know, The kids and stuff, but like you said, trying to figure out, hey, like what, what would you like me for me mm-hmm.

to pray for, for you. And, you know, being aware of that, um, you know, what is she? And the, for me, I like to kind of break things down into, again, that like body, mind, heart, and spirit area. So, you know, I, if you’re looking for, even. Like more ideas on that. Hey, like physically how are you doing? Like, are you healthy?

Is there anything that you know we can pray for there? Or, you know, make sure you get addressed. Like, my wife has some canker sores right now, right? So like, Just, there’s anything I can do for that. Um, and then mentally, hey, are the things you worried about right now? Are you anxious about anything? Um, do you have, maybe she’s works, is something going on at work, right?

I, I call that maybe like a mental thing. Um, yeah. Uh, emotionally, how are you feeling, you know, anxious, depressed? How are things with your friends, um, then spiritually? Yeah. How’s your relationship with God right now? You know, how do you feel like you’re. You feel like you’re fulfilling your mission in life?

You know, these are kind of deeper questions, but good questions to figure out. Um, and yeah, the things that come up, they’re powerful. You know, when you can say, oh yeah, you know, my wife is. You know, she’s worried about this thing going on with the kids. You know, please help her feel at peace with that. Or, you know, she’s worried about her friend right now.

Please help her friend be more healthy. Like you said, just develops that a much deeper level of intimacy that you, you know, each other’s hopes, dreams, fears, desires, and, and then plus you involve God. And, you know, the, the Holy Spirit. We’re talking about fruits of the spirit today. Like all that comes together in a really powerful way.

41:06 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. I mean, and I think it’s just, that’s just, that’s one area that is so simple that I think, but it’s often times the simple things that we forget. Yes. And we try to make that, we have, we try to make it all these complicated things. Look, it could really be as simple as just slowing down, taking time, have that intentional prayer time, just like you would have an intentional devotion time or, or time in the word, but just that time, one-on-one time with her in.

I, I just see there’s so much power in that, and I mean, and also that’s gonna also, if it’s kind of sticking with the fruit of spirit that we’re talking about, if you’re faithful in that, you know, and showing that that, that every day, you know, faithfulness that’s gonna keep growing and your faith together is gonna keep growing and it’s also gonna prepare you.

Because as you know, Mike, as a marriage, it, it’s not cupcakes and rainbows. I mean, it is trial and you’re going to come through and if you’re not in a trial, you probably just came outta one or you’re getting ready to go into one. I mean, that’s the three areas I tell guys, I’m like, you’re either not in one, you just come out or you’re getting ready to go in.

So be your prayer. Be prepared. But the prayer. Your prayer life will, will help you in those moments, uh, more than anything. And, and absolutely. And just being ready for those trials.

42:11 Dr. Mike Frazier
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. It’s a good, uh, reminder for my, uh, myself too. You know, I’ve been doing that a little bit more lately of like being more intentional about, you know, praying for her.

You know, I kind of know what’s going on with her, but, but sometimes I, I miss that myself of just like, you know, through the day say, Hey, like, you know, help. Be a peace helper, you know, be ready for this stuff. So, yeah. You know, I think that’s a great way to, to pull all this together. Um, so yeah, so good.

Well, you, it’s been awesome talking about the, probably wrap it up about here. Um, but, uh, but yeah. So Chris, where can people find you if they wanna go deeper and, you know, look into your, your programs and, and all that?

42:56 Chris Grainger
Yeah, I mean, for us it’s very simple. It’s, it’s the lion within us. I mean, that’s our.

Connect with us there. Join our community, us all on the main wave, on the main page there. Uh, listen to our podcast as we drop three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Uh, you really put out some, some, I think it’s some really good content. The feedback’s been pretty, pretty awesome on that, but the community’s where it’s all happening, that for us, uh, Mike.

So I mean, if you go to Delion within us, join the c. That’s where you’ll have the form, you’ll be able to connect with the guys in the forums, the events. We have lion lunches, bible studies. We, we just started our first mastermind. I mean, we have some really neat things happening. A couple courses that we’ve made that are all out there, all that stuff’s available.

We just need guys to jump in, uh, and start just leaning into some of these resources. And we’ve seen some incredible things happen where guys have actually taken some of this. Starting their own Bible studies in their communities. Nice. And the most recent big success is a guy took it to his church and now he’s leading a group of 75 men.

Wow. And he, and he’s, I mean, he’s just a facilitator, but we were able to, the Holy Spirit and the work that we’re doing at the Lion give him the courage and the and and the, and the confidence to be able to go to his church leadership. They just immediately jumped on it. So he, he’s nervous, but, uh, he’s doing a great job.

We’re proud of him. So yeah, just the line with N US is, is the best way to connect. Awesome. Uh, with us for sure.

44:21 Dr. Mike Frazier
Love it. Love it. Yeah. It is on my side. So, you know, my podcast is Strong Men, strong Marriages. Uh, you can find us at Strong Men Strong marriages.com. Uh, there’s a, an email series on there if you wanna get started with that.

Um, uh, seven Days to Become more attractive to Your Wife. So, Fun, fun email series. Uh, and then yeah, if you’re, you’re a high-achieving Christian Guy, you’re, you’re looking to really take it deeper with a, a 90 day program, you can fill out an application, uh, there or two under work with me. Um, but yeah, and if you’re, if you’re starting the podcast, strong men, strong Marriages, probably start with the first four episodes that’ll give you kind of an intro to what it’s all about, and then you kind of jump around from there.

Very cool. All right, Chris. Well hey, thanks so much. It’s been been great connecting today.

45:10 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Now, Mike, I’m gonna do one more little section for our show real quick. Perfect. Um, Because we, we end our show, what we call feeding time. It’s just a quick lightning round. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, and our listeners really enjoy it, so I definitely want to jump into that.

So, yeah. Great. Uh, and it’s, it’s only a couple minutes. Alright, so, so Mike, we, we, we reached the end of the lion within us, we call it. We have our final section, we call it our feeding time, where you basically, you’re in the lions. Okay. So you’re, you’re in here gonna throw a few questions at you lightning round, uh, style.

Love to get your feedback on a couple of. Again, there’s no right or wrong. This just helps our listeners get to know you a little bit more. Sure. So, first question, after Gay man, what is your favorite thing about God?

45:52 Dr. Mike Frazier
Oh, wow. That’s a great question. Um, I’d say that he is, um, always available. Um, you know, I can, lately I’ve been looking at, sometimes I feel alone, like in mm-hmm.

Life and even marriage sometimes. And a lot of that has to do with like even childhood stuff and all that, but just like knowing that there’s someone there that I can turn to that can, uh, be there that I’m not alone. That’s it.

46:24 Chris Grainger
He’s, he is, that’s, that’s the beauty. That’s the beauty of it, right? He’s always with us.

Yeah. So what’s your, uh, second question. What’s your least favorite thing about. Least

46:33 Dr. Mike Frazier
favorite thing about Satan? Um, I’d say that I don’t see him. Operating all the time like that, he can trick me into thinking that like it’s not, I am when actually it is him. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t like that .

46:52 Chris Grainger
Yeah, I know I’m with, we had a collective Amen.

From all our listeners right there. So, uh, so what’s something that you’re currently struggling with right now? Oh,

47:04 Dr. Mike Frazier
so. I think, um, you know, we talked a little bit about patience today. Um, you know, so you’ll hear this on the podcast if you listen, but wife, she’s been through a lot of like, pretty significant abuse through her life and like certain times of year or tougher than others for her.

Mm-hmm. because of that, she’s kinda in that right now. And so, yeah, like for me it’s kind of, uh, a, a time for patients, right? A time to like really underst. What she’s been through and try to like step into there and serve her versus getting into, you know this, well, what about me? And, you know, take care of me and all that.

So, um, so yeah, it’s kind of more of a, uh, rainy time maybe right now . I gotcha, I gotcha. In the marriage. But, um, but yeah.

47:56 Chris Grainger
Okay. Well what’s something that if you think back over the last year, maybe that you spent too much time.

48:04 Dr. Mike Frazier
Ooh. Too much time doing last year, I would say stressing out about my business and money.

Mm-hmm. , I think, um, not that I shouldn’t have been working, but I think I spent a lot of time, so every day right now, I, I have the scripture about, you know, don’t consider the lilies of the field. Right. Yeah. They toil not, you know, they spent and I think I spent too much time worry. , God wouldn’t take care of me financially.

Mm-hmm. , um, instead of just like you’re talking about focusing on service and trusting that, you know, those things would be taken care of. Cause they always have. I just, uh, spent too much time thinking they wouldn’t I’m

48:47 Chris Grainger
with you. Hey, that’s that. I love the honesty in that answer, Mike. That’s, I mean, I really, so many of us are, are, are there and have been there for, So got, got, got two more.

For you, what’s a new habit that you want to create moving forward or maybe that you’ve already started creating? Yeah.

49:03 Dr. Mike Frazier
Um, so in the program we talk a lot about this. So like we, we do a morning review to just kinda like put our thoughts in a good place towards God, towards our wife to ourselves. So I think keeping that one going, uh, and in the evening.

Um, but then one, one thing I’m doing is. You know, doing I, I wanna play pickleball with my son, you know, he’s 16. He’ll be outta the house relatively soon. Yeah. And so, you know, it’s something we both enjoy and I just want to kind of create those memories with him while he is still here.

49:36 Chris Grainger
That’s really cool.

That’s really cool. Hopefully you guys get some time on the court there. That’d be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So last question for you, Dr. Mike. So what’s one thing you hope the, the listeners out there remember from our conversation today?

49:49 Dr. Mike Frazier
You know, I really liked kinda what we ended with, about, you know, the importance of prayer and you know, if you can pray, if rise up for it, if you guys can pray together, that’s great.

If you’re in a spot in your marriage where, you know, you ask her that and she’s like, I don’t even want you to pray for me. Some guys can be in that kind of thing. Yeah. You know, just, just doing it. Right, right. Just taking your best guess. Okay. Like physically what’s going on with her mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and just, you know, really going to, again, from that place of service, you know, praying for her from that place of service, I think is really powerful.

And then if you can do it together again, that’s a great way to, to build intimacy.

50:29 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Well, you survived the, uh, the feeding time, Mike. That’s awesome. . That’s fine. . Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the line Within. It’s been an absolute pleasure to work with you, sir. Likewise,

50:41 Dr. Mike Frazier
likewise.

50:45 Chris Grainger
Most men know what it’s like to do life in a back end and feel isolated on the journey. We believe every man needs a community to help them become the men they were created to. More than just a website or podcast. We are a community of Christian men who are committed to supporting and encouraging one another on our journey, become the best versions of ourselves.

We are men who have fought the good fight and come out victorious. The lion within us is here to help you stop feeling lost, defeated, and. Instead, find community and connection with other men that will help you achieve your goals. Live a life of purpose and be the leader God intends you to be. Visit the lion within us to join the new Growing Lion Den community today.

So guys, that was a wonderful conversation with Dr. Mike. Really enjoyed that with him. Again, go check out his podcast. You’ll hear, you’ll hear, he’s gonna be releasing that as. By the time this release is on the lion, he would’ve already released that on his show. So you can go check that out. And the question I want you to think about this week is what fruit are you producing?

And specifically, what fruit are you producing in your marriage? You know, we talked about so many different areas. I really thought the conversation around patience just kept jumping out To me, patience and our marriage, God is gonna give you an opportunity to be patient, or you gonna step into it, or are you just going to just not and completely miss the opportunity?

So guys, I really need you to think about that. I mean, go back to the scripture of the week, the relations 5 22 and 23. This needs to be scripture that you have cemented in your hearts, guys. All right? So again, if you enjoyed this one, share it out with other people. Uh, go and write a rating and give us a review.

That would be wonderful if you did that. The biggest thing you can do, go to the lion within us. That’s the lion within. And join our community. You can, right there on the main page, there’s, there’s several links where you can join our community. Hop over there. If you get, once you’re in the community, you’ll have access to our courses.

You have access to our events. We have line lunches, we have bible studies, uh, we have, um, mastermind groups. Guys. We’re getting, we’re getting guys together and community having conversation, and that’s where it’s at. So many Christian men feel lost and alone. We’re breaking that. We have posts going out every day.

The communities chatting it up, they’re dropping cool questions. They’re, they’re dropping cool pictures, ideas, uh tips, dad jokes. All these things are, are happening within the community. And the only way, the only way you’re gonna see any of this and grow as a Christian leader is you gotta take action. So be a doer, not just a hear.

Jump on over to the line within us and join us in our. Guys, I hope you come back on Friday. I have a few really good tips I think, that are gonna serve you well on Friday. I want you to check up on those as we go into the weekend as well. There’s a couple dad jokes that I think we will, we’ll definitely get more than an eye roll.

I think they’ll get some chuckles outta the group just going into the weekend. So I hope to hear to see you back here on Friday, guys, for our fun Friday. Get after it this week. Remember the Fruit of spirit. Start applying some of these areas into your life, specifically in your marriage. Get out, unleash the.