00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys. It’s your meet episode of the week. I’m excited to have you here, but before we go any further, let’s get our scripture in. We need you to be always pointing to Christ.

Okay, so we’ll be into gospel, John chapter three, verses 19 through 21. Okay, so 19 through 21 are the third chapter of John, so this is the verdict. Light has come into the world, but people love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates light and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed, but whoever lives by truth.

Comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. Guys, powerful scripture right there comes right behind. When Mo most well-known verse in the Bible, John three 16, highly encourage you go back and listen to that spiritual kickoff. I spent a lot of time unpacking that and really diving into what does that mean to walk in the light.

Okay, hang and, and we’re going talking about that today. So today we have a, a returning guest and he’s now an altar. I’m excited to have Mike Hatch. He’s, he’s back guys, you probably remember him from previous episode, but we’re gonna be talking about his new book, empowered Manhood. Okay? Now, when you think about those two words, empowered at manhood too many times, they don’t go together.

They just don’t go together in the world we live in, but they should. So Mike and I spent a lot of time talking about how you can live this life as a Christian man. But empowered guys, empowered, we have the strength and it’s not us, obviously, it’s Christ. But what does that actually look like? So we’re gonna be unpacking some, some really deep, salient truths that I pray.

Lord, guys, it’s gonna serve you well as you move forward. And if you’re struggling with darkness right now, this is a great episode for you. No matter what that darkness is, right? Maybe, maybe you’re having some troubles with your marriage. Maybe you’re having some troubles with your finances or your kids, right?

Or your career. It’s some something’s just off there, you know? And, and it could be something, uh, or it’s alcohol. Maybe it’s pornography. Whatever it is, you’re if that, if you have that darkness, there is hope. There is hope. And we’re gonna be talking about that today, guys, of what it looks like to be an empowered.

So let’s lean in, looking forward for, for you guys, hearing, uh, Mike and I’s conversation. It’s good to have him back. Really love the things that he’s doing. So enjoy this conversation with Mike Hatch.

All right, so Mike Hatch, welcome back to the Line within Us. How you doing today?

02:55 Mike Hatch
I’m good, Chris Granger. Thanks for having me back, brother. It’s really, really good to be back with you again, buddy.

03:01 Chris Grainger
Oh man. So excited to have you back. For sure. So you’re, we don’t have many repeat guests yet on the line. You, so I’m pretty excited to have you here as a repeat guest.

That’s awesome, and, uh, excited to honor Dude, man. . Well, how’s it feel before we get going? You can now have, you know, your podcast host, you, you, you’re entrepreneur, you’re, you’re, you do a lot with investing and now you’re an author. How does it feel?

03:28 Mike Hatch
That is a great question, Chris. That is so funny. Um, not like what you probably think, . There’s still a lot riding on the line. The stakes are high and so I, I feel, uh, I feel a lot of pressure , if I’m honest. Yeah. Feel a lot of pressure. I think right now . Well man, there’s

03:47 Chris Grainger
hats off to you cuz I, I mean, I, I get, I’m honored to be able to interview a lot of alters and I just can’t even imagine the amount of work that goes into putting a book together.

And I’ve written eBooks, I’ve done, you know, bible studies, but nothing compared to a full book like that, right. So I’m just, man, that’s, that’s, that’s really, that’s true.

04:06 Mike Hatch
Dedication. Thanks, man. L anybody be confused. Just, just know that this is, I intentionally wrote this book much shorter than, than normal books.

So, so for those guys, because I know so many guys, you know, they can be intimidated by. Big, thick books. And so this book is less than 120 pages. Okay. So it’s nice and thin feels accessible. There are pictures in there , and there’s, there’s nice divided divided sections, you know, with subheadings. So that, and, and I, I did it for me because that’s the way I, when I read books, you know, if I can just kind of get to the next section, I feel like I accomplished something.

So I tried to design it that way so that if, if guys out there are intimidated by reading, hopefully this book will be less intimidating. .

04:51 Chris Grainger
There you go. There you go. Well, I, I’m looking forward to unpacking it a little bit for our listeners. I, I love how you started, you had a pretty comical bathroom incident at the start of your book, man, and I think that’s worth sharing.

So why don’t you just go through that, just to lighten the boat a little bit for us.

05:08 Mike Hatch
Okay. Yeah. So I used to work at the Pittsburgh International Airport when I was in college at the tie rack. And not the tire rack, but the tie rack, like selling neck ties neckties. Right. And I lo Yeah. Yeah. It was, had a blast doing it.

Um, enjoyed it very much. I love meeting people from all over the world that would come through the airport. So I would, I would have a lunch, usually in a Tupperware container, and then, you know, I, it could be, who knows, like, uh, spaghetti, who knows, whatever it is. But I would take the Tupper container when I was done eating to the restroom to rinse it out.

And in this particular day, I, I was in there rinsing out the Tupper container in the restroom at, at the sinks. And then I, there’s in the restrooms in the airport there, there’s two sides to those restrooms with a wall in between and then sinks that line, each side of that wall that separates the two sides.

And one side is the stalls, the other side are the urinals. And so I, I was at the sink washing out and somebody was in the stall behind me. And, uh, and they. Let’s just say they left very quickly without washing hands or anything and that kind of stuff, sometimes a little bit sticks out to me like, cause I make it a point to make sure that, you know, I keep my hands washed if, if I can.

And so it felt a little strange and a little weird. Yeah. And uh, and then as I was kind of contemplating that, I heard this laughing on the other side of the wall, on the other side of the restroom and I peeked around the corner of the wall and there were women on the other side of the restroom pointing and laughing at me.

And it was funny cuz my first thought was, boy, how embarrassing those women are in the men’s restroom. Um, no it was embarrassing for me cause I was in the women’s restroom and I did not know it. So then all of a sudden it hits me. So this person behind me who was in the stall, of course, was a woman. And I don’t know when she found out, but in that, no wonder she left so quickly, you know, when she comes out and she sees this man standing there in, in, in the bathroom.

So we just, it’s, it’s kind of ironic too, Chris, that we’re telling a story, I’m telling a story this time or during this time in our culture because, you know, the whole idea of men and women are, is being blurred Yeah. In the whole deal. But, um, but it was very embarrassing. It was very embarrassing. And, uh, and so I, I was, I was kind of frozen at the sink trying to figure out what do I do?

How do I get out of this without being caught or, or, or get in trouble? Am I gonna get in trouble for this? Like, and I was just frozen and, uh, and I just decided, I said, you know what, I’m, I’m just gonna walk out. Like I had every right to be in that restroom as anyone else. And, uh, and I went out, chest out, head held high.

I think maybe two women actually passed me on the way in and didn’t look twice at me because maybe I, you know, Confused them by my, my misplaced confidence. Um, yeah. But I, I got out of there alive, uh, with basically, uh, acting like I own the place, you know, like I was right. I was where I should be and there was no question about it.

But yeah, man, it was, it was quite an embarrassing experience. , well man, mistakes happen, right? . Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That’s right. Yep.

08:33 Chris Grainger
Well, I mean, your, your book, I just thought it was, it was, i’s always good to start to laugh when, when, when, for me, when digging into to really hard material. And you really covered some really heavy stuff in your book, you know, in Power Manhood.

Mm-hmm. , we’ll talk about the title here in a minute, but cuz you hit darkness head on. And for our spiritual kickoff for this week, I just, when we shared that earlier for John three 19 through 21, we talked a lot about the darkness and getting out of that with the light. And, you know, you know, so far as with men specifically, Where do you see this battle most prevalent with these guys that are really struggling with the darkness?

09:10 Mike Hatch
Yeah, that’s, so I go back to that story because I think so many of us men find ourselves in, in a position similar to that in our lives. And that’s, that’s why I tell the story. It’s, it’s reflective of my mentality, especially when I was younger, right? Where I kind of always felt like I was, I was trying to avoid getting caught, you know, the, the imposter syndrome really had a hold of me and I just always felt like a attention, a dissonance in me, you know, between who, who I was to other people, what I showed them, but who I knew I really was truly inside.

And so I, I hid so much of that stuff I was most ashamed of. And men today experience the same. Most men that I deal with, experience the same thing when I tell them the story, when I share my own journey of coming out of the dark and into the light. I just noticed over, you know, 20 some years, it really resonates with men because most men feel this way.

I think probably because we’re, we’re told since we’re young that, you know, there’s this unexpected, or excuse me, this unsaid expectation that we have to have it all together. You know, we can’t be dependent or needy on other people. And, uh, and so we have to have this, uh, facade that we put up, um, often.

And so I think men are, a lot of men are stuck in that situation, kind of like I was in the bathroom. But it, it’s, it’s that that feeling follows us throughout our life. You know, like, how do I get out of this without being found out? Um, yeah. And then, yeah, the, you mentioned the dark and the light. That’s part of, that’s, that’s a sign that you’re, you’re stuck in, in the dark that mm-hmm.

that you aren’t, you’re, you’re, you are not an integrated person. Right. And, uh, And so for me, it, when I was a kid, when I was younger, I was scared of the dark. You know, I, I told the story of my grandparents’ basement and I would not go down there unless I absolutely had to, or somebody was with me. I mean, it was scary down there.

And, uh, unfortunately as men, as we, as we wrestle with this imposter syndrome and, and feeling like we need to have it all together, we somehow subconsciously learned that actually the dark is where we wanna be for some reason. Mm-hmm. , I, I know for me it was, and, and that is because I get away with things in the dark that I wouldn’t get away with in the light, you know?

Mm-hmm. , I, uh, the, I go back to when I was in high school, homecoming and after homecoming we’d go over to a buddy’s house and I remember staying over, uh, in, in his basement, and it was a co-ed sleepover, , you turn the lights out and. You know, whatever happens, happens, right? , right? We’re all down there together.

But the beauty of it is, is we don’t see each other right. And, and it gives us the excuse to do things we wouldn’t do otherwise. Um, and often we get stuck in the light. We get trapped, or excuse me, in the dark. We get trapped by the lies that are told to us in the dark. And so what was once, uh, a place I would seek to avoid at all costs ended up becoming a place spiritually and emotionally, mentally, that I would, I actually found comfort in hiding in.

12:27 Chris Grainger
Yeah. And I think many guys do. I mean, that’s why I say all the time you have fake, usually leave fake you at home. Fake you’s doing this fine, ring real you, man. That’s a real, yeah, that dark is comfortable for so many guys. And yes, I’m afraid of the dark. Personally, I don’t like the dark man. I’m I, I’m gonna cut a light on.

I just don’t like walking around in the dark. I stumped my toe. It makes me say stuff I shouldn’t say. It just, it’s

12:49 Mike Hatch
not good .

12:50 Chris Grainger
You know, nothing ever good happens, but I’m with you there, man. Like, thinking back to my high school days, you didn’t run around. You know, I don’t, and I lived in a rural part of Virginia.

You didn’t run around and do the bad stuff during the daytime, you know, but when the sun goes down, you can gets, you get away with a lot of stuff and that’s where so many things happen, man. And I just think it’s important to recognize that, you know, if you’re get, if you’re calling that trap, it’s something you can’t get out of by coming into the light.

So, uh, I, I’m excited just to talk with you more about the book and let’s, I love the title too, man, because so many guys don’t feel empower. You just hit that, that, how’d you even come up with that title? What does it mean to you, ?

13:31 Mike Hatch
Well, that’s funny. So I came up with the title, actually, I, I somewhat stole it, not stole it, I got his permission.

But, uh, my chiropractor has this, has this, uh, saying up on, on the wall in his chiropractic office. And he’s, he’s amazing. He has changed my life in so many ways. Um, he is so much more than just crack your back and send you out. But his, his mantra in big letters on the wall is live empowered. And I resonated with his message so much because what he did was he did, like I said, he did more than crack my back.

He, he taught me and helped me to understand what was going on with my body and why my back was going out in certain ways. And, uh, and. At some point submitted to his perspective and his teaching, his tutelage, if you will, and have, have gained tremendous amounts of freedom from back pain. And, and that used to have me laid up for sometimes days.

And, uh, and so the whole idea of being empowered just stuck with me. And I said, can I use that cuz I feel like that that resonates with me and my experience and what I know I’m gonna be writing about. And of course he, he was fine with that. And so that’s stuck ever since. The Empowered Manhood, uh, podcast is, is the podcast that I host Manhood Empowered by the light of the Gospel is the book of course, that I, I wrote.

And then, uh, and my website is Empowered Manhood as well. And yeah. So most men would, when you think about that situation in the bathroom that I explained, yeah. Um, most men feel disempowered. That’s what, that’s what I’ve noticed. They wouldn’t necessarily maybe use that word. We live out of fear and insecurity.

We lack confidence in our marriages and as parents and often feel like a failure. Um, that’s why often we, we, we tend to gravitate toward work because, uh, many times work becomes where we find success in those ego strokes. And so we tend to wanna spend more time there because it’s easier to manage our image at work as opposed to when we get home where our family knows us, like they, they see us inside and out.

Right? And, uh, and it’s harder to hide at home. And, uh, and so yeah, so there’s that, that dissonance where we’ll, we, um, uh, where we just get, we get stuck in the dark pretending that we’re someone we’re not. Um, but then also, uh, As a result of that, we’re disempowered, which means so disempowered and I, I define this in the book, it means that, that we’re ineffectual.

We, we can’t, we, we, we don’t have any agency to, to act or make change. But specifically my, the context I write about is that we’re disempowered in these moments and at these times for God’s purposes, right. To, to, to be able to have an impact for the sake of his kingdom when we’re stuck in these in the dark.

Right,

16:36 Chris Grainger
right. Powerful stuff right there, man. And I know one thing that what so many guys are just listening to you walk through that so many of ’em get stuck in the dark because surrendering is nothing that guys ever even want to consider. Like, well, I don’t, I’m not gonna surrender to anything. Like I, I, I got this man, this, this is my life.

I’m doing what I want to do. Like. I, and this is where when I talk to the guys, and this is where they, they struggle, you know, they struggle with that surrendering part or some of ’em wanna surrender, like part of it, but like hold, like it’s the old image of the guy being baptized and he’s holding his wallet up out the water, right?

I mean, I’m not gonna surrender my money , like, you know what I’m saying?

17:15 Mike Hatch
That’s a funny image. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? I’ll, I’ll

17:18 Chris Grainger
give you everything except that guy. Or I’m not confronting my bedroom, cuz I definitely don’t want you in meddling in my bedroom with my, when I’m in there with my wife and it’s like, no, bro, like Jesus, he’s got it all.

He’s either Lord or not. And like see us Lewis, he’s either lunatic, liar, or Lord. So he either make him, if he’s Lord, he’s gotta be Lord man. I see’s so many guys that are struggling with that, you know? And how do you, when you, when you, I know you work with so many guys, how do you get ’em past that? Or, or when they’re stuck at that surrendering

17:46 Mike Hatch
part?

Oh man, that’s a great que So first of all, I, it starts with just sharing my own story as, as I meet with guys, as I’ve discipled man, I’ve found that. Just starting with my own story and sharing, Hey, look, I, I’ve, I’ve struggled and, and, uh, and this is my story and, and I share specifically about being addicted to pornography and how that unfolded in my life.

So, so typically what I’ll do is as I meet with a guy, I will start by wanting to know their story. Hey, what, tell me about yourself. What’s your story? What’s, you know, what’s your faith journey been like, I’m really, and then I’ll ask a lot of questions and they’ll tell me their story. And then I’ll, I’ll share my story typically as well.

And usually after I share my story, it, it gives them the confidence to share, because now that I’ve shared what I share, they, they feel safe basically to share it. Okay? Mm-hmm. , you, you have dealt with a dark, the dark side as well, and since you’re willing to share it, okay? I, I can share it with you too, because you seem to be a safe person.

That’s without a doubt. That’s the first, that’s the fir and then, and then doing what, what Jesus did. So Jesus, he would encourage just the littlest, tiniest step into the light. I, I think of, and I think, yeah, I talk about the story in the book too. The, the woman at the well who interacts with Jesus and she, she offers the tiniest sliver of truth because Jesus says, Hey, go call your husband and come back,

And she said, I have no husband , which I, in some, uh, commentators would say, actually, she might have actually, in her response, she might have actually meant to, to deceive a little bit, right? But yet there is still a sliver of truth in it where she said, well, I have no husband. And what does Jesus say? He says, yes, that’s.

Very good. You don’t, you don’t have a husband. That’s right. What you’ve said is quite true in fact. And then he kind of delves a little deeper. You’ve had five husbands, right? Yeah. Um, and so I, as I meet with guys and disciple men, I think the littlest sliver of truth that they’re able to, or willing to bring into the light needs to be encouraged.

Um, and that that helps to dry guys out. I love it.

20:10 Chris Grainger
Love it. Hey guys, I’m gonna take a quick break. We’ll be right back. What if you could connect with other Christian men, grow in your faith, have resources to help you be the leader God intends you to be? Have live events where you can ask questions and get in the moment answers and be connected to guys 24 7 when you need ’em the most.

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So Mike, so as far as when, when you were talking, I immediately start thinking about relationship cuz you start by if, if you wanna really help someone and, and help them with that surrender, surrendering part, you have to start with a firm relationship. That’s why, that’s why I’m not huge on like, you know, the evangelism efforts where you’re just walk around handing out tracks.

Like

22:06 Mike Hatch
that has its place.

22:08 Chris Grainger
But like I find a lot more value in act actually connecting with someone one-on-one, hearing their story. Understanding where they’re at. Just feel like the, you know, the spirit’s gonna be doing so much more in that relation. Cuz that’s how Jesus rolled. I mean, he had a, he made time for those, I call ’em holy interruptions, man.

Like, like mm-hmm , you would think it’d be a total disruption to his day, but Jesus just made that a holy moment and that’s how he rolled with it. So I was like, I’m always looking for those holy interruptions. And I think it’s so important, cuz the first part of your book, you talked about being known by God.

So many of us guys don’t even think that. Like, we don’t think that we’re known by God. I’m like, no man, he doesn’t know me and there’s no way he can know me. And, and why, why should he even want to know me? Like, uh, there’s just so many of this, this, this combination that guys get spinning over and over and over.

So man, I’d love for you just to unpack, you know, why you started there with that being known. Cause I think that is really, really important for guys to understand as they, as they move,

23:03 Mike Hatch
Yeah, it, it is definitely the, the start. Everything kind of comes back to that over and over and over again. So, yeah. And you’re, you’re referring to the, the, the three stages of manhood that I talk about, which is to be known by God, grown by God, and owned by God.

And you know, you don’t necessarily work through those chronologically all the time, but I, I, I will say that what you just said is true. It comes right, it always comes back to being known by God first in order to, to, to find security in, in your relationship with Christ, in your identity in Christ that you are, that you are beloved and, and loved unconditionally.

So to be known by God. You know, Paul talks about this in, in several of, um, first Corinthians and, and some other places in, in some of the, uh, the letters he wrote. He, he creates this interesting, um, It’s not a dichotomy. I guess it’s, it’s a comparison maybe between the knowledge that we have, you know, what we know.

But God knowing us, he, he, he juxtaposes those two things. And, and I think it’s so perfect for us as men because we often gain a lot of confidence out of what we know. Right? We often tend to, to want to, uh, whether yeah, at work or in a hobby or something, you know, we, we love to express, uh, our expertise and, uh, and often that can, that can translate to, to our relationship with Christ too.

We can know a lot about God, we can know a lot of scripture and, uh, it’s different though than being known by God. Yeah. So I think of my, my Chi, my son Mateo, he’s gonna be turning 14 this month actually, so that’s exciting. But he, um, he, I love him obviously. He is my son. . Um, he also has some really cool friends.

Okay. That, that I love. I love his friends. I think they’re really cool. And I, and I enjoy the fact that he, the fact that he hangs out with them. However, my love for his friends is very different than my love for him. Right. And, and you see this in scripture as well. So often it’s said, Hey, we’re all God’s children.

In a sense. That’s right. But in another sense, it’s not quite right because once you become a believer, once you, once you entrust your, your heart and your life to Christ, and you’re saved, God knows you in a different way than he did before, that he knows you now as his, as his son, like, his as if Mateo w you know, uh, like, like he, like I know my son Mateo, right?

So I, my son Mateo, I, I gave him his name. I’m responsible for him. I, uh, there, so he lives in my house under my rules, you know? . And so, and I’ve spent my entire li well his entire life investing in him, and I’ll be here until he, I die. His, his friends, I, while I love them, they don’t have that same relationship with me, okay?

Mm-hmm. , and it’s similar. So being known by God means you’ve moved into the, into God’s house with him, basically. Yeah. And, and you’ve, you’ve entrusted yourself to him. So now you, he’s already said he loves you no matter what. It’s kind of like in scripture uses this, uh, illustration a lot. It’s like being adopted.

So yeah. The parents have chosen to have you and call you their own. Now you begin to learn how to live by the rules of the house, right? Yeah. And that’s what happens is you get integrated into the family. And with God, it’s the same thing once you, once you come to that realization of being known by. Um, number one, it creates a tremendous amount of security because there’s, there’s no changing that.

Scripture’s very clear that, that once you are saved, it’s, it’s, it’s up to God. It, it’s about God’s faithfulness to you, not your faithfulness to God. So we will still mess up, we will still make mistakes. We will still sin, we’ll still in some ways try to sabotage our relationship with God, but he remains faithful to us.

In fact, that’s, that’s the, the story you see in the Old Testament all through the Old Testament, God’s faithfulness to Israel in spite of their unfaithfulness to him. And, uh, and it’s really significant. The more that truth settles in into our hearts, the more we begin to live out of that true identity by work, by the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

And so, Colossians 1 21 says, for once we were enemies, uh, with God, uh, hostile to him actually, um, because of our evil behavior. But it says, but now we have been reconciled by Christ’s physical body through death. So because of what Christ did to us, we’re reconciled into a right relationship with God. Now, God, if, if we’ve accepted that, that, uh, that sacrifice on our behalf, we become known by God.

And what that means is it says at the end that God presents us and I, I picture him holding us in hi in his hands, presenting us right holy in his sight, free from, uh, without blemish and free from accusation. That that’s, and, and when you think about what that means, uh, holy in his sight. Holy. So, so we are holy.

We’re, we’re set apart for, for a special purpose. This is what holy means. Okay? We are without blemish. That, that means perfect . That means without blemish is perfect. And then without accusation. Um, and no accusation could come against us, which, which means there’s no one left to accuse us, cuz the only one who matters, the master, the king of the universe, has already declared us righteous.

And so we’re free, we’re completely free. Um, and, and we can rest in that love.

28:50 Chris Grainger
Amen Brother. Preach on that. Mike. That is awesome. I mean, that’s, that’s incredible. And I like too, how when you so many guys are thinking, I, not me, not me. Well go watch the chosen and you even re reference to chosen your book because I think it’s beautiful how they do just show hey, Everyday guys.

Just everyday guys out there and how Jesus handpicked them. And you got, if you’re listening to this, you are handpicked by God to lead your family. Don’t freak, don’t mistaken that for a second and just get out there. He, he handpicked the most unlikely of the ones out there. That’s right. But man, that I just, I think they, first of all, huge chosen fan.

I think they’re doing a phenomenal job. Hopefully they keep doing a great job with it. And just because it, for me, it makes it a real personal and as a man, I can relate with so many alies and those disciples or, or, or battling, you know, and they’re, they’re, they’re living with Jesus and I mean, and they, and even to the point like, bro, like 12 of ’em are living with Jesus and one of ’em still got missed it.

You know, it’s like, and he was with him. Oh yeah. Like, so , that gives me encouragement too. Like there’s hope for Chris too, you know?

29:58 Mike Hatch
That’s right. That’s exactly right. They did. And, and in fact, you could almost argue that they all missed it. Uh, but one chose to walk away and not find the, an, the final answer in Christ.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And then because, because it, it seems that after Jesus was resurrected and appeared to them and then gave ’em the Holy Spirit, suddenly the lights turned on and they, they, they got it. Um, yeah, but, uh, but yeah. Yeah, that’s right. I just think it’s

30:26 Chris Grainger
one thing real quick, I’ll just, I, I ran across this the other day is Jesus is the open room and he talks about, you know, one of you going, will, uh, will go against me and go around the room.

That is it. I Lord, is it I, Lord, is it I Lord. And tend to get to Judas. And it’s, is it I rabbi And that hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, bro, Jesus can’t just be your teacher. He has to be your Lord. Like the Bible’s great. It will teach you how to little grip good life and how to do all these different things, how to manage your money.

But unless you make him. You missed it, bro. You missed it. And I, I don’t know, that just stood out big time. And I think that’s just part of, as, as we grow in, in our Christian walk, we kind of, we, we don’t wanna miss that we’re, that we’re growing closer to him. And that’s why I like how you go straight to grown by God, man.

So let’s, let’s unpack that a little bit for

31:13 Mike Hatch
us. Yeah. Oh, this is so exciting to me. Cuz there’s just, I just, there’s so much freedom in this. It, it’s, it’s very, it, it’s like what Jesus said, look, I, I, he said I have, I’ve come to give you life and life abundantly. Or he says, I, I have, uh, take my yoke upon you, which is a yoke, refers to his teaching.

Uh, take my teaching upon you because it is, uh, it, it’s not burdensome, it’s light is what it says. Mm-hmm. , why is it light? Because, because he’s already done everything on your behalf. And, and as a result of that, you now are known by God and beloved in his sight. And not only that, but you are not left to your own devices to improve your character or grow in wisdom and stature.

It is the Holy Spirit that’s been, that’s been deposited in your heart that, uh, that God calls, uh, the down payment. Basically, it’s, it’s like hand money when you, when you buy a house, you know, you give mm-hmm. , you give hand money to, to prove you’re serious about this. Right. Um, that’s how the Bible calls the Holy Spirit.

It, it’s that deposit in us and then through that deposit, through the Holy Spirit begins to change us from the inside out. And so God actually accepts responsibility for our own personal, uh, what’s the word? Uh, improvement plan, if you will. Yeah. I feel like I’m missing a better word than that, but our, our own character improvement plan, basically.

Okay. And it’s up to us to trust him in that process. And again, like you said, we’ve, we love men, love, we wanna take the bull by the horns. We wanna, um, we wanna take action and do things, accomplish something and then take credit for it. , I got this, you know, like that, sir. Right? Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And, and when it comes to our character improvement, you know, and, and we, we in a sense, we can’t take responsibility for it.

It, it is God who’s, who’s working in us. In fact, uh, Philippians two 13, it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. So it’s the Holy Spirit that’s conforming our wills to his will. So again, we entrust ourselves to the process. And it’s not that there are things that we don’t do.

Obviously there are things that we do to put ourselves in that place to be grown by God, but to me there’s just so much freedom knowing that. That, that God is responsible for it, and I don’t have to muster some enormous amount of willpower to accomplish this. Um, it, it’s God that accomplishes it in, in me, you know?

So yeah. That’s, that’s grown by God, basically. Yeah. Love

34:05 Chris Grainger
that Scott. Love it. So guys, we take a quick break. We’ll be right back,

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So Mike, let’s keep digging into this grown by guy concept man. Cuz one thing that, that, yeah, so many guys, I think we miss, you know, for me it took me a long time to even, and I still have to wrestle with my understanding of what true grace is, but, and you talk, I love how you break it down cause you talk about common grace and saving grace.

Oh yeah. Right. And, and those two areas that, that was an one, an illuminating part of your book that, that helped me and I, I, I’m sure it would helps a lot of our listeners out there. So if you can just explain the difference between the two cuz that may be a, hopefully Yeah, I’m looking for some aha moments for some listeners out here when you go through this man.

So no pressure but uh, you know, see how

36:21 Mike Hatch
you do . That’s great. Okay. No pressure. Yeah. So I, I think of it, I’m a runner and so I, I love, uh, if I can running five Ks. I’m not a, I’m, I’m not, you’re not gonna catch me running a marathon. I didn’t know you were a runner,

36:38 Chris Grainger
Mike. So, so we and I, we have to get together.

I didn’t know you were a runner. Cause I like running five Ks too, man. We’ll do that. We’ll put that on

36:44 Mike Hatch
the book. Yeah. Oh, dude, that would be amazing. Oh my gosh, that’d be so good. Yeah, so I, I was a sprinter in high school and college, and so I, I just, I’m, I’m not built for longer distances. I’m built for speed

Okay. So, um, so anyway, I, but running it, it hit me one day that as I was running, um, this, this analogy between grace and oxygen, and there are oxygen is available to all of us, every one of us. It keeps us alive. It sustains us. We don’t even real, we forget that we even need it because our breathing actually happens involuntarily.

Right. So, so we don’t even realize that, that we, that the dependence we actually have on it for survival. Right. That’s common grace. That’s, that’s, um, in a sense that’s the grace that’s available to all of us. That God. So the fact that you wake up in the morning, I mean, we think about too, I mean, I didn’t, I don’t think I talked about this in the book, but you think about the, the details or the, the complexity of our bodies and all the different things that have to happen within, within us biologically to keep us alive.

It’s, it’s miraculous. It’s unbelievable. That’s, that’s an example of common grace. Um, it could be waking up in the morning, experiencing the sunset, enjoying creation. That’s that’s common grace. It’s it’s grace that’s available to everybody. Um, saving grace is more specific to the person and work of Jesus Christ.

And saving grace is, is that knowledge of knowing that Jesus, and, and it’s, and it’s demonstrated to us through the Bible. Of course, we read it in scripture what Jesus did for us on, on the cross and through his resurrection and how that contributes to us being saved from our, our sin. And that’s, that’s saving grace.

And so, but the other analogy I use is that, and, and I think this is helpful, is that for guys, you know, well, if you, if you’re a runner, Chris, you understand this, you understand oxygen at an, at another level than a, a guy who might be a couch potato and is just kind of breathing in and out every day because you actually put oxygen to the test.

You actually go out and you trust that that oxygen’s gonna be available to you and you push yourself when you run. as, as I do. And, and as a result, our capacity, uh, for oxygen in our lungs expands right? And through that expansion, that capacity, it gives us the ability to perform better, right? Mm-hmm. and I, I, I feel like it works fairly well with grace as well as, as an illustration to that, because the more the, the, the more we’re acquainted or the better, we’re acquainted with God’s grace, the, the, um, the more our lives change based on what he’s doing inside of us, but also the, the, how do I say this, the better we’re, the better men we become, the more empowered we become, the more acquainted with God’s grace.

And so it, it’s about putting that grace to the test, though. It’s about which, which is where stepping into the light comes into play. You have to trust to some extent. That God is good and that, and that you are in need of him. In order to take that first step into the light, there has to be some level.

And again, that sliver of, of faith, Jesus said, it doesn’t take much a, a mustard seed of grace, a tiny teeny ancy, weeny bit of grace or, or excuse me, faith, um, can be, can be used to do amazing things. Right? And so it, it’s not about the amount of faith that we bring to the table. It’s bringing whatever is allotted to us, to the table and using that to motivate us to step out in the light.

And as we step out in the light, God proves himself faithful to us. And uh, and our capacity for experiencing God’s grace grows. Yeah. And then it gives us confidence for the next time we might need to confess a sin. We might need to have that hard conversation that might lead to conflict. Right, because we’ve had these series of, of experiences where God has come through proven himself faithful, and it’s expanded our ability to, uh, to accept God’s grace.

Um, I think I went beyond your question cause I think you, you asked about common grace and, and saving grace. Um, hopefully that illustration helps. Oh,

41:31 Chris Grainger
absolutely. It helps for sure. I mean, you definitely cleared it up. I mean, that’s just something I, I’ve never thought about those two different levels of grace like that before and the common again, available to everyone.

Well, just by the fact that we’re sitting here talking and. Like, I don’t have to think about breathing, like we’re just going do it. Right. We have the, the common things that just happened that, that he’s given us, our creator, but then that saving grace that can’t only be found in Jesus. I just think it’s just beautiful how you tie all that together.

And so I know you go, you go from known by God, grown by God. Then you, you, you get to me owned by God and man. Yeah. When you hear that being owned by somebody, I know a lot of guys, they don’t wanna even think about that. Man, you just, you, you went to Medland there, Mike. That’s the way we, that’s what we say in the South, you know, went to Medland.

But being owned is important. I mean, you have to either, again, he’s either Lord or he’s, or he’s rabbi, one or another. So if he’s Lord, that means he, you are owned by him. And, and I think that’s a, a, a part that a lot of guys struggle with. So unpack that. A little force being owned by God. What, what are you, what are you, what are you getting

42:34 Mike Hatch
at here?

Yeah. So, I mean, Jesus is pretty clear. He says that we are either slaves to God or we’re slaves to sin. Amen, brother. And so you either have a good slave master, a good shepherd, or you have a, a horrible taskmaster that just ruins you a shame and guilt and just beats you down. You know? So you’re owned by something, right?

You’re owned by something. It, you can’t escape it. Because we were created to be in that type of relationship with God in that dependency on him. Even Adam and Eve, when they were created perfect in the garden, they were still meant to be dependent on God in heaven. When we go to heaven, we will still be desperately dependent on God.

As a pastor, I would hear sometimes people say, you know, well, once we die and we get to heaven, then we’ll know everything. Ah, that’s, that’s, that’s partially. Not totally. We won’t know everything. In fact, we’ll still be very dependent on God. Uh, and that’s what’s gonna make eternity so fun. We’re gonna, there’s no end to the depth of learning and growth and, uh, about God, but just about his creation as well.

Um, it’s gonna be an amazing thing. So, um, , I lost my train of thought coming back around to the original point though, is, um, so being owned by God, um, you know, we were meant for that relationship to be dependent on God. And if we’re not dependent on him, we will be dependent on something else. We will be owned by something else, as, as we just said.

And so, when I was in the dark, enslaved by my, the sin of pornography, I was, I was enslaved. I had no choice. I couldn’t, I couldn’t overcome it myself. There wasn’t enough willpower in me to be able to. To break free from that, right? Until I was known by God. And then God began to grow me, and as he grew me, I began to gain freedom from that addiction of pornography over time.

And then lastly, being, uh, owned by God is where you submit your will to his, to his purposes, to his kingdom purposes. And, and man, it is again, it’s so freeing because that’s how we were originally designed to be in, in partnership with, with God. Uh, that’s how he created us from the beginning. And when we submit ourselves to that rule in our lives and allow him to own us in, in the sense that, okay, now I don’t necessarily ma ma make my own decisions anymore.

Now I, I submit my will to his God. What do you want for my life? God, what are you doing in me that, where are you leading me versus my own? Selfish desires. And the beauty of it is, is when you take that approach, um, you actually live into your true purpose and, and you find your, your true passions. Because when you’re close to God and, and, and you also get to know yourself through God, right?

Right. And, and you’re, the way he created, you become, comes to bear. And you get to utilize these ways that you’ve been naturally gifted by him, and it’s the most fulfilling experience ever to, to then submit your, your will to his will and allow him to, to direct you from that, from that point on. So, yeah, being owned by God is, yeah.

No man wants to be owned . I, I, I grew up an athlete and, uh, to be owned meant, oh man, you were taken to school and, you know, got dunked over or tackled for a loss or, or left in the dust on the track, you know? Um, it’s not like that though. It’s not like that. It’s not, it’s

46:35 Chris Grainger
the same. I mean, I kind of relate to it with as well, like when I coach guys around finances and I start off with the budget and they get, oh, I don’t wanna talk about a budget, man.

It’s just, it’s just, it’s too restrictive. And it’s like, I’m like, no, bro. Like it’s freeing it, you know, you’re telling your money what to do. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re actually by being, uh, taking the control there, look, it gives you a lot of freedom. And the, and the same thing with, and once you give God, like, look man, I’m yours.

Just, I’m gonna follow you. I believe I trust you. You got me. There’s a ton of freedom in that and it’s actually not, you know, so it’s not a bad thing. It’s a very, very good thing. And I think there’s just too many times we just, we as guys, we just missed that man. We just miss it. So I’m just glad that Yeah.

That you, you were able to unpack that for us and hey, let’s take our last break. Yeah. And we’ll be, we’ll be right back guys, and we’ll finish up with Mike here today.

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So, Mike, being, being known, grown, owned by God, and you take everybody to the light, and I love how you kind of tie the story together at the end with the light. And, and that can be confusing for a lot of new believers as well, man, when they start hearing about this darkness and light, like, what are you talking about?

So man, just explore that a little bit for us on, on the light and why the importance of it and, and, um, how would you share that with someone maybe newer to the

49:46 Mike Hatch
faith? Yeah, no, that’s great. So the light, especially as it, as we read in scripture, it it, it has to do with the truth. It has to do with, uh, righteousness and purity.

God’s presence is, is often, I mean, anytime an angel would show up or, uh, or the, the, the Lord Jesus in, in the Old Testament who he would show up. It’d be a, there’d be a bright light, right? People would be blinded. They’d hit the ground to cover their eyes, you know? Um, the light represents the presence of God, okay?

Dark represents the absence of God or, or lies sin in other kind of associated nefarious activities you might decide to do, like when I was in high school and, you know, made out with a girl in the dark in my friend’s basement. So it, it, it’s the place where, um, yeah, so those lies, uh, if you spend too much time in the dark control you, but vice versa, if you step into the light and embrace the truth, oh my gosh.

Then you get, you can be just as, yeah, I would say just as easily controlled by the, by the light, the truth, and it begins to dictate, uh, your life. So now when you live in the light, You, uh, you number one, you understand who God is. Number two, you understand more clearly who you are because now you’re in the light and, and things, all the blemishes are, are exposed.

You know, like I I, in one of my YouTube videos, I do this where like you can kind of see, so I’ve got lights that are on me here as we’re here, and I don’t know that there are listeners and they’re may be viewers, but if you’re listening, you know, you can see different imperfections, like, you know, different, who knows, could be some pimples or, or freckles or sunspots over here, or bags under my eyes, or I got crooked teeth right here.

You know, you, you start to see that when, when I step into the light, you know, you start to see that more. And, and so on one hand it can be unnerving because the truth can be sometimes unnerving because the truth is, as scripture says, we’re sinful . And so when you come to the light, that’s gonna be exposed.

However, at the same time, this is again, this is so beautiful the way God’s truth works. Yes, we’re sinful. Yet he loves us unconditionally. And his, his grace covers us. Uh, just like the, uh, the lady who is caught in the act of adultery in John chapter eight. You know, he, she’s brought before Jesus and, and the town is ready to stone her to death.

And, and Jesus first reaction is, it’s kind of strange. He starts writing in the dirt with his finger. It says, and uh, and a lot of commentators talk about what he was writing and why, and I don’t think that’s even important. The point to me in that is that the minute he kneel, he knelt down and wrote in the dirt.

Where was everybody’s attention? It was not on that woman. It was on him. And it’s amazing to me that that’s God’s first response to us, especially when we offer ourselves to the light, is compassion and mercy and grace and love that knows no bounds like that. That’s his response to us when we come into the light.

That’s not our, our experience with everybody else in this world, . I think that’s probably what, what often will, will sabotage our efforts to want to take a step into the light because we’ve had so many bad experiences, right? Where people will take that to, to cut us down, you know, right. To shame us. And, uh, and so we hesitate to do that, but God is, is different.

He’s, he’s merciful and gracious and, and wants to, to embrace us when we step into the light, into the truth. So hopefully that helps. And, and these are, and I illustrate some things in the book that, you know, I go back and talk about history and I mean, you think about the, the notion of light and dark.

It’s been a, it’s been a theme in all of human history, in every religion, uh, in every like, uh, story that’s being told. It often talks about the theme between light and dark. You think of, you know, star Wars and Darth Vader, you know, uh, yeah. If you only knew the power of the dark side, right. That Darth Vader says to to Luke Skywalker.

Um, you know, you’ve got these themes between light and dark that play out, and, and so that’s where we find empowerment as men. Yeah. That’s the, the whole purpose of the book revolves around that. So the idea is, look, guys, if you wanna be empowered, if you truly wanna live empowered and live free, and with passion and purpose, you’re gonna find that in the light, not in the dark, right?

54:36 Chris Grainger
That is powerful right there, Mike. I mean, and, and to your point, like pick any movie out there, any franchise, it’s always light versus dark. Yeah, that’s it. And it’s so much more. Yeah. That’s how, that’s how there’s no original thoughts. Like it all comes back to God, , like there’s everything, there’s just everybody.

It’s just repurposing what, what he, what he has shown us here in different ways. But usually there’s a villain, there’s a bad guy. You have the good guy, you have the light. So guys, again, Hollywood’s, they’re, they’re all wise. But anyways, we know what the truth is. So I, I just think walking in it. I think sometimes though, man, we’re scared to walk.

Like you said, we’re scared to walk in it because we’re, I, we have those imperfections, you know, you, you pointed out, when the light points on us, it, it points out our imperfections and that’s why we want to hide that stuff. But look, man, you gotta just remember that, that it’s, it’s not about us, it’s about him.

Yeah. And just walk in it and let him show and, and guide you and direct you. And it just, it can be so freeing. And you will, you’re right too, because when you’re in the light, That conviction’s going to come, like, you’re gonna be convicted to do things that you probably had didn’t used to do, and you’re gonna be convicted to stop doing some things that you used to do as well.

So, I mean, that’s just, I think there’s tons of beauty in it. Uh, we just had to, to lean into that, Mike. So, I mean, this is a powerful book. I highly encourage you guys to, to get a copy of it. So, Mike, before we you go, do you have time for a quick lightning round? Cause I know you did a lightning round you the last time you were on, but I got some new questions for you.

Yeah. Out of this, so, okay. We’ll have a little

55:58 Mike Hatch
bit of fun, man. . Yeah, man. Let’s do it. All

56:01 Chris Grainger
right. I gotta get, I gotta do this before, before I know we’re running out of time with you cuz I, but you’re busy. You’re an author now. You have all these things going with your schedule, so I gotta respect that, right?

56:10 Mike Hatch
But you go stop Chris. Stop. Stop. That’s stop.

56:16 Chris Grainger
Love it. I love it. So let’s, let’s, let’s do a fun one. So what’s your, what’s your favorite hobby? I, I’ve never asked you this.

56:22 Mike Hatch
Oh man, that’s a, okay, so well running is definitely a hobby of mine. Yeah. Um, also, uh, I, I love . Oh, this doesn’t sound strange. I love chopping wood.

I love splitting logs. Like Okay. And the classic, the classic ax, you know? Yeah. And, and you know, maybe a hatchet or something. Oh man, I’ve got a special place in my backyard where I go up to just spend time chopping wood. No, the only,

56:50 Chris Grainger
only person I know that does that is, is Jace Robertson. And he talks about it a lot on unashamed.

That, that’s, that’s his pla that’s what he does to like, unwind. It’s just go chop wood. And he’s like, it’s the weirdest thing. He lives in a neighborhood with a bunch of yuppies. He’s like, they all come over and just watch him chop wood . He like, he just think it’s hilarious. Yeah. That’s funny. But anyway, so look, you can have one meal, same meal each day for the rest of your life.

You only get to hit eat one thing. What are you eating, man? What are you picking?

57:16 Mike Hatch
Oh gosh. One meal. Oh man, is this hard?

I would say, I’d have to say something my wife cooked. Um, and, and I know it’s so funny cause I , I have, I’ve said something very similar to this about her cooking where I was like, oh my gosh, I would, I could eat this all day or every day or something like that. And I think, okay, well, okay, I actually, I’m gonna backtrack.

I’m gonna say this. Okay. I’m gonna say peanut butter and jelly because , because I know it’s so not sexy. But I, like, I, I mean I almost eat it for lunch every day, so I kind of am almost eating it every day now. So I know it’s. Weird, but I, I’d say peanut butter and jelly, bro, you can’t go wrong

58:09 Chris Grainger
with a PB and j.

So, I mean, you’re, you’re good. You’re, you’re in good company. You know, I totally share, I would totally share a pb and j with Jesus. So it’s all good, man. It’s, it’s good stuff there, like, yeah. . So what’s your, uh, what’s your all-time favorite movie?

58:26 Mike Hatch
Okay. Oh man, this is always tough too cause I’ve got a lot of great

58:30 Chris Grainger
movies.

So guys you haven’t picked up yet. These are not spiritual questions. We just want to get to know Mike.

58:34 Mike Hatch
Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. So I really love movies that, um, that, that are, that are deep and meaningful. Okay. Like, my, my wife it, I drive her nuts because she . She just, she’s like, I wanna just escape. You know, I don’t wanna have to think too hard.

I’m, yeah. . Okay. Alright. Yeah. So there is, um, Antoine Fisher, that’s the name of the movie. Qua Fisher. Probably, probably my all-time favorite movie. Um, it’s amazing. I do, I mean, I do like the classics, like, uh, Shawshank Redemption is really good too. Right. Um, but yeah, that, that, I would say that right now what’s your, uh, what’s your favorite sports team?

Pittsburgh. Steelers Steel man. A Pittsburgh? Yeah, I’m a Pittsburgh guy. Through and through. And, uh, the Steelers have always, I like no, I, I like the Pirates. I, I, yeah, I’m Pittsburgh through and through, so, yeah. Steelers, pirates, penguins, um, yeah.

59:41 Chris Grainger
Okay. Alright. What’s your, uh, what’s a, uh, a book? So outside the Bible, you can’t go there cause we know his Bible is your favorite book, but what’s your favorite book

59:51 Mike Hatch
besides the Bible?

There’s a little book by John Maxwell called Leadership 1 0 1, I think is what it’s called. Uhhuh . And it’s, it’s a, it’s a little book. It was one of my first, the first John Maxwell books I’ve ever written. Or excuse , the first John Maxwell book I’ve ever written. That’s hilarious. Right. That I’ve ever read.

And it, it, it’s a little book, but man, is it powerful? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Leadership 1 0 1. It had a huge impact on my life. Yeah.

1:00:20 Chris Grainger
Okay. Very good. So your last one on the lightning round, Mike, so what’s one thing you hope the guys remember or, or learned from your new book in power Manhood? Oh, man.

1:00:33 Mike Hatch
That there is freedom.

Freedom in the light. So many guys, when you’re trapped in the dark, you, if you’re like me when I was there, you, you tend to give in to despair. You tend to, to, to, to give up basically and say, you know what? There’s just, it’s not gonna happen. I’m not gonna gain the freedom from pornography that I thought I would, or whatever the issue is that you’re facing.

It’s just so easy to give into that. And man, there is so much hope and power in the light. Um, and it doesn’t take much just a sliver, guys, just a sliver to step into the light to watch God move in huge, miraculous ways.

1:01:16 Chris Grainger
Amen. Brother. Where do you want guys to go to get the copy of the book to connect with you?

Where should we be sending

1:01:23 Mike Hatch
a mic? Yeah, so you can, obviously, you can get the book on Amazon and, uh, empowered manhood.com is the website that created for the book. And, uh, and then there’s also an accompanying digital course that comes with it. So, uh, I’ll walk you through, through the digital course, walk you through the book, offer, uh, suggestions on how to apply the content, uh, work through the, the discussion questions in the book with guys, and then offer resources for guys to be able to take next steps.

I really designed this book so that it would be. Applicable almost immediately, so that you can take steps right away, uh, with whatever it is you’re, you’re struggling with in the dark, guys, that this, this would help you to take a, a, a next step quickly. Um, so there are a lot of resources there to help walk you through as well.

Um, I think that’s it. Yeah. Empowered Manner. You can check out our website Empowered Manhood as well. Okay. And, uh, yeah,

1:02:19 Chris Grainger
we’ll make sure all those links are synced up in the show notes for you listeners out there. And Mike, as always, it’s a pleasure to have you on the line with us. Is there anything else you’d like to share today, my

1:02:27 Mike Hatch
friend?

Uh, I don’t think so, man. I, I’m just grateful for you, Chris. I’m grateful to have met you. I’m grateful to partner with you together and, uh, um, yeah, you’re one of the resources that will be listed in, in the, the digital course that I provide as well, so I’m hoping to point more people to what you’re doing with the line within us.

Man. It is, it’s just good to be partnered, blocked arm to arm with other guys who have a passion for, for men’s discipleship. And, uh, dude, I, I’m grateful for you brother.

1:02:58 Chris Grainger
Amen. Brother, right back at you buddy. Man, you have a great day. Thank you again for sharing so much on the line with Edison today.

1:03:05 Mike Hatch
Thanks for having me, Chris.

1:03:09 Chris Grainger
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So there you go guys. Love that. I was able to connect with Mike again, having him back on the show. I know you guys enjoyed that one. I definitely enjoyed it. But just remember, man, being known by God being, being grown by God, being owned by God. And you need to really think about that. You know you are known, right?

He’s constantly helping you grow. At the end of the day, you need to, to make the decision. Is he gonna be, Lord, I talked about with Mike earlier, he can either be teacher or he can be Lord, right? And, and something’s gonna be Lord of your life. It’s either gonna be you or is it gonna be Jesus. And guys, I pray that you take that decision to step into it because there is freedom and delight.

I know it doesn’t sound that way. Like I don’t want people, him to know all the bad stuff I’ve done. Look, you’re, you’re center just like the rest of us coming to the. And when it’s when you walk into a light and he will show you the path that you need to take. And then at that point you can start making all the, the corrections and all the, the adjustments in your life to live that empowered manhood life that we know he wants us to do.

We know, right? We, we made it that image of him. Let’s, let’s lean into him. I also just love how Mike talked about that common and saving grace. So guys, that saving grace is available. And if you’ve never put your trust in Jesus Christ, that saving grace is there, but it does require that you take action.

So take some action guys. Cause I want you to think about this our question end of the week this week. Do you know how to get out of darkness and into the light? The answer is very simple. Surrender to the lordship of Jesus Christ. If you make that decision. And truly surrender to the Lordship. I’m talking about Lord, over everything guys.

Not just Lord over certain things. Everything has to be Lord over it all. At that point, you’ll be walking in a light and there’s nothing like that. Guys, I want you out of the darkness. I wanna help you get out of the darkness. I totally get it. Darkness, sometimes I’m gonna be straight up. Darkness is gonna be fun cuz it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s all about us and our nature.

It’s satisfying what we want. Look, we have to surrender. Get out of it. There is so much freedom in that. So I pray this, this helped you this week, guys. I pray this encourages you. Share this with someone else. That’s the biggest thing you can do. Seriously, just share this episode with, Okay. If you leave the, the podcast a rating and review, that helps tremendously.

But share it seriously. Don’t keep this in your back pocket. Hit the little button. Send to a friend, send to a group of friends. Send it to your church. Send it to your Sunday school class, to your small group. Whatever you need to do, send it to that guy who you’re just wondering. You know, I wonder if he’s a believer.

This could be a, a great way that you just share your faith. Hey, man, I was listened to a podcast the other day. We were just talking about being an empowered man. I just wanted to share it with you, brother. And you know what? That could be right there. The little step that you take of obedience, that opens up a conversation, baby.

He’s not a believer. And maybe he comes to you, Hey man, what is he talking about? Just known by God’s stuff. What is, what is this? And that gives you a chance right there, just to start a relationship and to, to take it to the next level and actually lean in and share the gospel. So I would encourage you to share it with other guys, with others.

Please. Guys, think about that. That’s a really great way that you can, can, can make a big impact, uh, and, and really take the, take the gospel to the next level. Uh, guys, I would also encourage you. Mike and I talked about it, talk about it a lot together. He, he’s really big on, on helping men grow in their faith.

You know, we are to line within us as well, so jump over to our community. You know, I mentioned it on our spiritual kickoff earlier this week. I do a spiritual kickoff every day, Monday through Friday. We do that every morning. So we can help you with your scripture. Just stand, oh, just grounded into the word.

Okay. We have live events all the time. Ask me anything. Events for previous guests. We have, uh, lion lunches. We have, uh, uh, dad camp that we have, Roland guys, we have, uh, or Bible study that we get together. There’s just so many resources, so many opportunities to connect guys, masterminds. There’s just, there’s so much happening and it’s all designed to serve you, to be the leader God attends you to be.

But you can’t get it guys unless you jump into community. So again, If you don’t know what a community is, send us an email at support at the line with them, us, cuz I’ll be glad. We’ll jump on a call. I’ll show you, I’ll give you a behind the scene, look in, inside a Zoom meeting, just show you what the community looks like.

What are we actually doing when we say this community thing, guys? So, so check it out there. Highly encourage you to just join, join for 30 days for free. See if it serves you, see if it helps bring any value to you that helps you in your walk. And if it does, consider partnering with us and being part of the line within us.

And if you want to support in line within us without joining the community, we, you, you can go to our donate page, you can support us there, guys. All of it goes to, we’re trying to build the kingdom, trying to do the work that God has called us to. So something to consider there. Guys, come back on Friday.

Okay? Seriously come back on Friday. I have some really good tips that I wanna share with you around being an empowered man. What does that look like? Things that you can lean into. I think you’re gonna like some of these tips guys, because spending a lot of time lately asking others and growing and trying to just get some really good information that we can give you on our Fun Friday episodes that you can implement very easily, okay?

Small changes and make a big impact. All right guys, so get after it. Have a great week. Come back on Friday. Remember that, John three 19 through 21. Seriously, go get those verses, get ’em. Don’t just be a John three 16 guy. Know the rest of it as well. Get it all. Just, just get it all in your heart guys. It’s so important.

Walk in the light. So we’ll see you next time guys. Get after it. Unleash the lion within.