00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast sermon, Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in. Alright guys. It’s your meet episode of the week, but before we get into it, we’re going to unpack our scripture cuz that’s so important that we always lead off.

Giving God all the glory. So let’s just dive right in. So we’re gonna be in the book of Ecclesiastes. Okay. Ecclesiastes chapter two, verse 24. Just one verse this week. And it’s not, it’s actually, uh, one of the guys I think you’ll be able to memorize pretty easily cuz a person cannot do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction and their own toil.

This too, I see. It’s from the hand of God. God, if you miss the spiritual kickoff, highly encourage you to go back, check that out. I really unpack that verse in detail and under so you can understand the work that you’re called to do. There is purpose behind it. And speaking of that, this week, this, we are very excited to have Ken Coleman.

He’s gonna be talking about how you can really lean into that purpose to get clarity. If you don’t know who Ken Coleman is, he’s actually the nationally syndicated radio host of the Ken Coleman show. It’s a wonderful show out there guys. He’s a number one best selling author for sure. Got a couple books that guys highly recommend the books.

We’ll talk about those as we get, as we get going along. He’s been featuring in Forbes. Fox News, Fox Business and Rachel Raho. 2014 is when he joined the Ramsey network. It’s Ramsey Solutions, so he works hand in hand with Dave. He offers, uh, expert advice around career and how people can do the work that they, that they are, are actually meant to do and how to land those dream jobs.

And it’s funny, we actually talk about dream jobs and got some clarity around dream jobs guys. He goes, I know we’re all out here. Sometimes you just feel like you’re just checking a box, man, I’m just, One, one paycheck to the next. Right? Just go in here punching the clock, whatever it may be. Even if you don’t have to punch a clock actually anymore, maybe you just, you, you, maybe you’re working a salary job and you, but you still just feel like you’re going through the motions.

If that’s you, this conversation’s going to help as this is what Ken does. He is coached. Thousands of people with their careers and things that have going on to help them understand the talents that they have to do the work that they’ve been called to do. So, I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Ken Coleman.

It was an absolute honor to work with him. His books, uh, the Proximity Principle, paycheck to Purpose are all great resources to help you. So if you feel stuck in that career or maybe you’re trying to figure out where, where do you go next in your career, make that jump. This is gonna be helpful for you.

Hopefully it’ll be illuminating. So enjoy this conversation with Ken Coleman.

So Ken Coleman, welcome to the Line Within Us. How you doing today?

02:54 Ken Coleman
I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having

02:55 Chris Grainger
me. Oh, we’re excited to have you here for sure. So, I’m curious to know, just get us started with something fun, maybe something fun about you that not many people know. I know a lot of people listen to the Can Coleman show, but maybe just a little insight to who you are outside

03:08 Ken Coleman
of that.

Uh, yeah. Well, I am, uh, husband to Stacy for almost 25 years. We’re about ready to celebrate that milestone, uh, in the month of May. And I’ve got three kids, three teenagers, 17, 15, 14. I, uh, I love sports, uh, and I am a passionate but really bad golfer was probably enough for

03:32 Chris Grainger
everybody. There you go. There you go.

Well, sounds like you got a full house at home with all those teenagers. That man, I’m sure that keeps you very busy.

03:40 Ken Coleman
Yes. And uh, full of faith.

03:43 Chris Grainger
That’s right. You gotta have that. No doubt. I have four at my house myself. I don’t have teenagers yet, but I’m, we’re really close. I have the 12 year olds, my oldest, but, uh, I’m getting ready for these teenage years.

It’s gonna be

03:54 Ken Coleman
interesting. It is indeed. That’s a, that’s a, that is a, uh, a new journey for you up to this point. It’s been. Physical exhaustion, it will now transition into emotional exhaustion.

04:06 Chris Grainger
Right. Thank you for the word of encouragement.

04:10 Ken Coleman
There it is, brother. I wish I could sugarcoat it, but that wouldn’t help.

04:15 Chris Grainger
Oh, I totally get it. I mean, with the pre-teen it’s, it’s, it’s wearing us out too. But, uh, hey, it’s just morning seasons of life and we’re gonna lean into it and have fun on as much, much fun as we possibly can. So, yeah. Uh, I’m so excited to have you here today. A lot of your guys, a lot of our guys rather listen, you know, we talk a lot about our careers and our wealth and I know we’re talk, kind of dig into that.

I love your, your book, paycheck to Purpose and I did some research cuz I know you talk a lot about clarity that just, that really resonated with me. And I just, I was like, you know what? I wonder what some of the stats are. So I just, just did some research and it looks like 18% turnover rate is, is, is pretty average millennials right now.

I’m a, I’m a millennial myself, barely made the cut, but I’m in, uh, they stay an average of 2.75 years on a job, and then the average person has about 12 jobs in their life. So when I hear that, I don’t hear a lot about clarity. Uh, it seems like there’s a lot of, of, of screaming, a lack of clarity. So maybe is, is that what you’re seeing too with as many people as you coach?

And did you touch.

05:15 Ken Coleman
Well, there’s certainly, there is a huge generational, uh, difference between my parents who are boomers, certainly the greatest generation. I’m a Gen Xer, you’re millennials, a, you’re a millennial. And so there is a very big difference as to how they view, uh, let’s call it career, you know, uh, the word career is more of.

Just a body of work for these younger generations versus the older generations. It would be more, uh, specific in describing a line of work. Right. So what what’d you do for your career for the older generation? Be like, well, I was an automotive technician, or I was, you know, that was, you did one thing and you tried to hold on for 30, 40 years.

Okay. So we’ve seen a big difference between the greatest generation to the boomers to Gen X. Gen X, my generation, certainly much more, uh, transient, um, in, in the world of work. And, and that has continued to, uh, pass its way down to the younger generation. So now it is much more about, um, the now not, you know, I’m gonna lock in and I’m gonna stay in this one position.

So it’s very much an expectancy that they will move around and they’re just looking for the next best thing. And, uh, you know, that’s just the nature of, of our world right now. You know, they’re just a, they’re a product of the environment where, uh, jobs begin to change significantly in the seventies and eighties and nineties.

And so they’ve, they’ve just inherited that younger generation. So now it’s like, look, I, I’ll leave in six weeks. You know, I’ll leave in six months. I’m, I’m not locked in. Um, I got options and I like options. Yeah.

07:02 Chris Grainger
I mean, and that, that instant gratification, it’s all about me thinking. I, I, I have another job myself.

I’ve been in that career 20 years and that’s just unheard of these days, you know? No, my, my mother, she just retired 46 years at a company, never happens. You know, just, you just, and I, I talked to some people, my wife’s in HR and she’s actually been to conferences and talked to people who, when you look at resumes, if you don’t see them moving around, it’s almost looked at these days as, as a ding.

To, you know, they don’t have enough, they quote unquote, experience in these other areas. I’m just, it’s, it’s baffling to me how it’s, it’s, it’s morphed to that.

07:40 Ken Coleman
Yeah. Well, and the great resignation certainly plays into that as well. When we saw, you know, and still seeing millions of people leaving their jobs every month.

Because they’re looking for the next best thing. And so when you see millions of people leaving jobs, think about how many millions are left behind going, well, what’s wrong with me? Am I missing out on a party? You know, so this is a, there’s a whole lot of Simon says going on here, you know, follow the leader and that kind of stuff, you know?

08:03 Chris Grainger
Right. So I mean, the, the whole clarity piece, I mean, maybe coach the guys out there that are listening right now. Okay. If I’m hearing this and I don’t want to get, just be another stat there. How, how do they get that clarity and does it. Does it change over time? I would love to get your, your advice on that.

Cause I know the 20 me, when I was 20 years old, that vision Chris is, is much different than, than me right now sitting here at 41. So what’s, you know, just how, how

08:27 Ken Coleman
do you get that? Yeah. So what I teach is, is that you were created to fill a unique role. Okay? And so the role, uh, in that sentence, it’s not describing a job.

It’s describing a role. So, uh, for instance, I, if I were to use a one word descriptor of what I do, um, I’m a coach. I could use the word communicator. Okay? So if I use those two words, just as an example to answer your question, I’m not giving you a job description there. I’m saying this is the role God created me with a unique combination.

Psalm 1 39, 13, 14, 2 of my favorite scriptures in, in the Bible where David uses the analogy, the metaphor of you knit me together in my mother’s womb. And so he’s using the knitting there. We’re talking about two threads at at least, right? And so I think there’s three threads that every human being has, talent or skills.

This is what you do very, very well. And then there’s passion. This is, this is a role, okay. That I love to fill. I, it’s a, it’s a grouping of tasks or it’s a, a role that I fill. So I love to communicate, I love to coach. And then mission is the third thread, and that speaks to our natural motivation. No one has to motivate us to get excited about this type of result.

This is those last two threads. Passion and mission are heart focused. Threats, right? And think of talent as technical. It’s tools God gave us. Tools, talents that we can hone into. Sharpen skills. Think power tools if you will. So, talent, passion, mission. So talent is what I do best. Passion is work I love to do.

And mission is res, are results that motivate me. And so getting clear on those three elements allows us to see who we uniquely are. There’s nobody else in the world like us. Because of the combination of how those threads come together. And so when you begin to see that, you begin to see the role that God created you to fill.

And so again, you can choose whatever word, but it’s a fun exercise. Choose one word, you know. But for me, it’s either communicator or coach, uh, and either one of those words that I can interchange, but that speaks to if I am spending the majority of my day as a communicator or as a coach. I am filling that unique role that God wired me to fill.

And so then we began to look at jobs and potential career lanes, but we first and foremost must get clear on how we are uniquely put together. And so that allows us to, to again see clearly that’s the clarity, and then believe confidently and then move forward courageously, right? So clarity leads to confidence, and confidence leads to courage.

So, clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity is so vitally important, and I think that’s why we see so many identity-based issues in our world today. Uh, this is goes for men and for women, but certainly we’re talking to men here on this podcast and to understand men, how you’re uniquely wired, what your professional purpose is.

Will, will allow you to be better in your relational purpose. So your relational purpose is, is, is husband, father, brother, son, friend, coworker, whatever. But you won’t fully win relationally if you aren’t winning professionally because they drag each other down. Just as it’s true that if your relationship role is falling apart, you’re gonna drag that stuff to work.

You just, you’re just a human being. So you need to be aware of that.

12:08 Chris Grainger
Yeah. I’m curious from a, from a, from a man standpoint, when you think through talent, passion, mission, those three critical threads as if you will, uh, is there one that you see guys struggle with the most of, of clearly identifying and, and understanding?

Or do they all just, just trying to see, is there a, a common area where for weakness for guys that you would say, Hey, get really clear focus. Don’t, don’t miss this piece.

12:33 Ken Coleman
Um, I would say, uh, the third one mission, you know, what motivates me? What results fire me up? I think most guys know what they’re good at or certainly can get to that pretty quickly if they, if they’re, even if they’re dealing with some self-confidence issues, um, what they love to do.

I think a lot of guys know inherently, you know, uh, but I do think that motivational piece, that’s why I introduced that into my methodology and into the assessment, is because when I first started out, I was just talking about talent and passion. But I think, I think what motivates us, the results that motivate us is such a key indicator because you could, uh, love the work, um, but not care deeply about the results and something’s off.

Mm-hmm. I’ll give you an example cuz people are scratching their head. So when I went into broadcasting, I, I knew that I loved, uh, communicating publicly. Broadcasting. I knew it. I knew I was good. I knew I had the chops. Um, and I started out heading towards sports cuz I do love sports. So I got on the air, I did some television and radio in the Atlanta area and I realized after having pasted that passion of performing, broadcasting, communicating that, um, talking about sports every day would get old.

Hmm. And the reason is, is because I was not as motivated to entertain, because sports talk is a, is entertainment. There’s nothing wrong with entertainment. It’s just, it’s not the result that mattered to me. What I care deeply about was influence. And so instead of entertain, I want to influence. Hmm. And so that led me down the path that I’m on now to broadcast in a way that I’m influencing people.

Doesn’t have an entertaining quality to it. I certainly hope so. Uh, but. You understand the difference. And so when I realized that, I was like, okay. And so you can, you can be doing something that you have passion for, but the results of what you’re doing don’t motivate you as highly as they should. And that’s the example.

So I’m more motivated to communicate, uh, and coach people for life change than I would do to communicate, to entertain you about your favorite team,

14:50 Chris Grainger
right? Right. Totally makes sense. I mean, and I’ve seen that in myself too, here at the line within us. I mean, when I started this, that mission became very clear.

That was a big driver. Hopefully the talent catches up one day. Right? But the, we’re getting there. One, one path podcast at a time. But this is, this is an incredible, wonderful insight for the guys out there. Now, the clarity piece, you can, if you wouldn’t mind clearing that up, clear up clarity, how about that for as it changes, cuz I mentioned earlier in my, in my life as as that clear.

15:20 Ken Coleman
So what mostly changes in, at the heart of your question is not talent. Because again, the way I believe is that talent is like that clay. That the potter uses, puts on the wheel and through the pressure of the hand, uh, resisting the spinning of the wheel and the water and all that tension turns it into a very specific vessel.

Okay? So talent you’ve got, you can hone it into the skill like the potter hones, the clay. The passion and mission can change. There’s no question about that. As your life experience changes. Um, you could certainly be more excited about this type of work, uh, maybe in later on in life than you were early on, that could change, but I don’t think it changes as much as, as the results.

I think mission is where we see the most changes as life evolves. So, in other words, um, I’m always gonna enjoy communicating. I’m always gonna love communicating if I’m healthy. Right? Okay. Now if I’m unhealthy and, and, and the evil one is messing with my head and heart, but, but if I’m healthy, I’m always going to love communicating and coaching because that’s how I’m wired.

Now, what could change is the results of the communicating in the coaching. So, for instance, I could walk away from Ramsey and, and still want to communicate and still want to coach, but maybe for a different result. And so that’s the, that’s the delineation there. But, but certainly, you know, but so that’s why clarity matters.

So, so you’re always going back to when I, when I begin to wrestle with a different future or I feel unsettled, uh, I need to get to the bottom of that. Is this, is this of God. Is God pulling my roots up where I am so that he can replant me or am I dealing with some junk? And so what we do is we go back and we get clear.

And we, we ask ourselves, you know, do I have the talent to do this thing that I’m wondering about? Hmm. If I do, we go, okay, at least I got the chops to pull it off. I’m not fantasy land. And then we say, do I really love this or do I love the environment? Do I love it? What? What do I do? I love, does this stay in my passion zone?

I love this kind of work. And then do the results fire me up? And if the answer is yes to all three of those, Well, now we know we’re not fantasy land. We know that I’m at least wired for this. And so now we’re praying through it and we’re beginning to look at all the other things. So that’s, that’s how to answer your question, that as, as your eyes shift to something different, how do we know that it’s something that we are created to do?

And you go right back to the process. Do I have the talent to pull it off? Do I love the work? Do I care deeply about the results?

18:15 Chris Grainger
Love it. Love it. That that definitely cleared up. Thanks. Big time for me. Thank you, Ken. We’ll be right back guys.

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So Ken, I’m curious for you when, think about the, the coaching you do, I know you coached so many people throughout your career on a regular basis. You touch a lot of guys. In particular, is there a common problem that you hear men bring up that. From a career coaching standpoint that you just wish you could just address all at once.

Cause you maybe you see as a red thread, if you will. That, that, that keeps popping up. Cause I love, I’m sure a lot of our guys listening right here, there would love to just get your insight just to make sure, Hey, am I not the only guy thinking this is it? What, what would that comment, uh,

19:53 Ken Coleman
problem be? I think it would be the, uh, fear of change because you’re a provider.

It’s that alpha male, you know, that we were designed that way to be providers, hunter gatherers, you know, and take care of our family. And so it’s a wrestling match between the head and the heart, is how I would describe that. And so the heart is, is, is is feeling something new and desiring to do something over here.

The head’s going, well, that’s pretty scary stuff. You make a good living right now. Or you got all these responsibilities. You’ve been doing this for 15, 20 years. Um, boy, this is scary. Or, uh, that’s the voice of fear or doubt comes in and goes, I don’t know. It’s too late in life for you to pivot. Or, you know, I’m not sure that you can pull this off.

This, this may be, you know, selfish, this is, you know, yada, yada, yada. So it’s really a combination of fear and doubt and their, it’s based on their role as providers and that that’s what’s going

20:52 Chris Grainger
on. Right. So when you hear that, cause I, I totally get it. I hear that myself. I, I was hoping you’d go there. How do you start working with guys to, to get past that fear?

To push

21:02 Ken Coleman
past it? Well, well, we gotta get to the, we gotta get back to clarity, right? So when they’re feeling that it really is that same process. So when you’re head at heart or wrestling with each other, you certainly wanna be listening to the heart, but you gotta get, you gotta get your head right? And so the head is designed to protect you.

In other words, your brain, the amygdala back here is that fight or flight that is trying to protect you. So you’ve gotta get to the bottom of the fear. And the doubt is the fear. Legitimate Is the fear protecting you? I mean, let’s say you make $150,000 a year and you got three kids and a wife, and you got responsibilities, you got a mortgage and your heart.

You think, uh, your heart’s going, um, you know, we wanna go over and start this business. I’m over for myself one day. And that could be absolutely spot on. He could have the talent, the passion, and the mission all lining up, but. This is an entrepreneurial, solo entrepreneurial risky situation, and you may have to come up with $80,000 versus worth of capital to start this business.

Okay? So now you’re looking at that and you’re going, I don’t have the 80,000, and that means I’d have to go into debt for it, right? And if you’re overcome with fear about the debt risk, I would tell you that fear is not lying to you there. Fear is protecting you. So we want to dig into the fear. Well, I’m afraid that I’ve, if I don’t make this business go, I’m 80,000 in the hole and I’m in a massive amount of debt.

So when we understand, is the fear telling the truth was the fear holding me back? So the example I just gave, the fear was telling us the truth, right? That’s too risky, but let’s take the same story. Okay? And so the guy’s making 150 grand and he wants to eventually start his own business. It doesn’t take a huge capital outlay.

In fact, he can start it for less than 1500 bucks and he needs to start it on the side anyway to to grow it over time. So he is not gonna lose his job. He can do both. And he walks through all of that and he realizes, I’m afraid of failing. Well, no, the fear is just, you would be embarrassed, but that’s not enough.

And so you should start it. And so that’s the idea. And so we always want to take. If I’m afraid, and, and so I’ll just do, I’ll just do this really quickly for your audience. Fear is, I’m worried that something bad is gonna happen. Doubt is. I don’t believe that something good is gonna happen. Mm-hmm. And pride is, I care more about what other people say than what I believe.

And so those are the enemies of progress. I write about ’em in the book from paycheck to purpose, but it’s important to understand. That those are the voices. I call ’em enemies of progress, and they’re always hanging out, and they’re always gonna come at you when you’re trying to do something. If you’re a guy right now that’s listening and watching this, and you’re not experiencing fear, doubt, and pride on some level, I can tell you you’re sitting on the bleachers and you need to get your butt off the bleachers because men that are moving forward, that are thinking about moving forward, Are going to encounter fear, doubt, and pride because they’re the, they are the tools of the devil.

It’s that simple. The devil hates progress. If it’s kingdom progress, he’s trying to stop it and he uses those three voices. So you gotta now listen, sometimes those voices are real. As I said, sometimes that’s common sense, the fear and the doubt. Like if I, if I go out right now and, and a guy throws a basketball to me, On a 10 foot goal and says, Hey, you think you can dunk that?

And I go, I don’t think so. Or I say, I don’t, no, there’s no chance I can dunk that. That’s not doubt, that’s reality, right? I, I just don’t have the hops. All right, so that’s, that’s the idea. Is there truth in this or is there not? And if there’s not, deal with it and move forward. If there is you some common sense that the good Lord

24:47 Chris Grainger
gave you.

I was powerful. Now you’re speaking my language and you’re actually, so the, the listeners out there, they’ve heard me talk about this in the past. This is where I’m at, Ken, cuz this is, you know, doing the line within us, getting this going. There’s tons of fear, there’s there, there’s lots of doubt that kill me each and every day.

That’s why I feel like I just need to get Romans eight in one tattoo on my arm now. Therefore, there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Cause I keep telling, reminding myself that, but mm-hmm. You’re, I love how you say, if you’re not feeling that. You’re just on the sidelines, man. Like, you gotta get in the game, guys.

I mean, there’s a smart way to do it. And, and, and obviously you want to take those steps, but I think you just absolutely drilled that. You gave me a lot of, of, of affirmation and confirmation that I’m doing with the work that guys call me to do. And some people say, well, you’re working, you know, these two jobs.

It’s impossible. No, it’s not impossible. You can, you can just have, create different priorities and lean into that stuff, man. So it was love that answer. Thank you. Absolutely. So let’s keep, let’s keep digging into here cuz I, I know a lot of guys they talk about, and you even drill this in, in your book, paycheck for Purpose as well around dream jobs.

And does that even exist? I mean, I, I’m trying to think through so many guys out there, like, I don’t want, I just, I’m just trying to collect a paycheck and I’m like, look man, there’s so much more than just collecting a paycheck. So just give us some, some ideas of. Of what that could look like for guys as they move forward.

Cause maybe they’re feeling stuck right now. They feel like there’s no way they could ever get to their dream job. Uh, yeah. You know what, what would you, what would you tell those guys?

26:10 Ken Coleman
Well, I think we have to separate fantasy from dreaming, you know, dreams are of the Lord. You know, the Bible is very, very clear, uh, about the power of dreams and, and, and we see dreams chronicled throughout the Old Testament for sure.

And so there’s a difference between a dream and a fantasy. So if I say a dream job is me playing for, um, the Lakers, well, okay, but that’s a fantasy. Yeah. I mean, it’s a complete and utter fantasy. There is no chance in the world that I can play for the Lakers. 0.0002 infinity. Right? All right. That’s a fantasy.

Um, but the dream job. Is where you’re spending the majority of your day, the majority of your week, the majority of the month, the majority of your year, using what you do best talent to do work. You really enjoy passion to produce results that you care deeply about mission. That’s the dream job, and it will feel like a dream compared to everybody else’s, you know, boring or overly stressed out environment.

So the dream job is, is is really more accessible than people realize. It’s because you’re doing what you were put on this earth to do. Think about it. You’re using what you do best to do what you love, to produce results that matter to you. Let me say that again cause I want people to catch this. You’re using what you do best, do what you love, to produce results that matter to you.

That’s people are gonna look at you and go, man, you were born for this and, and they’re right. Um, you’re gonna feel a sense of. Tremendous fulfillment that maybe you’ve never felt before. Now, the one little thing that I’d add to that is you need to do that in a healthy place cuz it is possible for you to use what you do best to do what you love, to produce results that matter to you in a really crappy environment.

You get confused. Mm-hmm. So the dream job is using what you do best to do, what you love, to produce results that matter to you in a place where you’re valued. Right.

28:20 Chris Grainger
Man. Love that definition right there, guys. So look, we’ll take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

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I love that definition, obviously around the dream job doing, doing the work we call to do. And I love how you also tie in the environment cuz I don’t think we’ve spent too much time thinking about that as guys, but a lot of times we just jump straight on what, what the, the job offers that come at us and maybe unpack that a little bit when, when we’re getting, we’re walking on that road and we’re evaluating job offers and opportunities.

So many times we just look at the money. That’s all we look at is, you know, how much money was, is, is being made here versus the different things like the benefits or more importantly to me, the people, the management, the vo, what does that, that org structure look like? Flexibility and, and career, work from home, things like that.

So when you try to help p coach people nowadays, when they actually look at job offers and opportunities, how do you rank stuff? I mean, what, what, what, what, what advice would you give them there? Well, uh, I’m glad

30:27 Ken Coleman
you asked that because I just described the dream job, and so you need to have a realistic expectation and you’re not gonna be in that job all the time, right?

Uh, I would think of this question as, uh, uh, the framework from the question that you asked is on a ladder. Okay? So what rung on the ladder am I in? So you just described Ken the dream job, so that’s at the top of the ladder, right? Mm-hmm. And then we could keep growing from there, and we wanna stay in that zone, if you will.

But as I’m looking at opportunities, I’m going, does it allow me this job? Does it allow me to use what I do best most of the day? That is vitally important, that that’s why I lead with talent. You, because if you don’t have the talent to pull it off, you got no shot. All right? So we gotta have the talent.

So when I get a job offer, guys, do I have the talent to pull this off? I, I got the talent with the training and experience. I’ll get the skills so I can do this. That’s a no-brainer. Then we check the box. Now we look at passion. We go, do I love the work? It’s okay if the answer’s no. I’ll explain in a minute.

And then do you care deeply about the results? Well, if I don’t know, but, but I, but I, but I got character and, and so I’ll, I’ll do the work. And I’ll care. I’ll care about excellence. Even though my heart doesn’t jump up and down about the results, I do care about excellence and I got my mind set on the next rung of the ladder.

So if it is a job that you must take, so the next step on the ladder, the next rung, and you’ve got the talent and you’ve got the character meaning it, you do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do, right? Right. This is character. So if you got the talent and the character and that step, this job is the next step I’ve gotta get here so that I can ultimately get to using what I do best to do, what I love to produce results of the matter.

So if I gotta take this step to get into that sweet spot, that’s fine, but it’s gotta be the next step. So I’m okay with you taking a job that’s not in your sweet spot as long as it’s leading to a job in your sweet spot. And by the way, that’s how you do it. I’ve never met anybody that just goes from sweet spot to sweet spot to sweet spot to sweet spot.

That’s a, that’s a, that’s absurd, right? So, you know, talent matters there and the latter, the matters. Am I on the right rung, on the right ladder to where I want to go?

32:57 Chris Grainger
Amen to that. How about, and this has come up in our community lately. Love to get your insight here. The importance of network. And your community, people that you’re, that, that can get you plugged into these opportunities.

Maybe if you wanna transition careers, for instance, or if you just wanna learn more about a, a potential path. I mean, what, how, how do you value that and, and where do you encourage guys to go to Really, I think it’s the

33:19 Ken Coleman
most important thing. I think it’s the most important thing for your progress, assuming you’ve got the talent and the passion and the mission figured out.

And now, you know, so I know my destination. I think the most important thing here is, is relationships. And I write about it, um, in my book, the Proximity Principle. Mm-hmm. Which was also a bestselling book, and there’s a chapter in there on the web of connections. It’s a sociology term, and it, it just, it’s the, the true, if you think about a spider web mm-hmm.

How big is your spider web? And I think that would be the best, the best question that you know your audience needs to answer. Do I have a very sizable spider web? Now, if you don’t, it’s not the end of the world, but let’s start adding some layers to that spider web, right? Because it, you know, the old phrase, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know is really, really true.

Uh, but it’s even more powerful if you, if you know who you are, you know what you can do. And now you’ve building intentional relationships so that, um, you’ve got opportunities when you least expect them and when you most need them, you know, you want opportunities knocking

34:23 Chris Grainger
on your door. Yeah. Speak of that though, cuz that intentional relationship part, that’s the piece that I see a lot of guys missing.

They’re thinking about number of followers or, you know, chasing these vanity metrics versus the intentional relationship part. And I think that’s a big component of it cuz it doesn’t matter how many thousands of followers we have rely on or LinkedIn or whatever. Uh, it’s about the ones that I actually, that I’m serving that I’m able to help.

I’d love to get your insight there on what really matters around that network and intentional relationships.

34:54 Ken Coleman
That’s right. It’s, I think you’re right. I think you said it well. I, I wouldn’t add much. I would just say how many, how many men are you adding value to? And I think, I think that that needs to be the reoccurring question.

You know, cuz I don’t even like the word networking, but I know we use it and I understand why, but you know, don’t be a relationship vampire where you just suck the blood outta guys and leave them in a heap. Don’t be transactional, be truly relational. And I think the way you do that is adding value. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, this exhausting, Hey, I’m coming over to your house for six hours and we’re gonna just sit there and man up for six hours and just talk through and, you know, it’s like, no, no, no.

Just the, the encouraging text, the, the check in, you know, the, the, when you can hang out, uh Right. You know, make looking for opportunities to, to, to add value to people and, um, it doesn’t take a lot.

35:43 Chris Grainger
Amen. Amen. You just got to be intentional about it, guys. It’s not about the followers, it’s about the, the actual connections and the re and the true relationships that are out there.

So, Ken, this has been incredible. I know you have a hard stop. I have a few more questions in our lightning round if you’re willing to play. We can jump into that real quick. Uh, let’s, let’s do it. Let’s see how fast my lightning is. There you go. There you go. So just share with, we call it feeding time at the line with Dennis.

So what’s, uh, what’s your favorite hobby? Uh, golf. Big time golfer. Okay. And you mentioned that earlier. That’s right. So that’s, you’re doing that. So what’s your, uh, favorite food? Uh, I

36:18 Ken Coleman
would say Italian food.

36:20 Chris Grainger
Anything Italian. All right, so guys, take Ken golfing and then buy some Italian food and you’ll be checking all his boxes.

36:26 Ken Coleman
I’m telling you right now. That’s a good day right

36:28 Chris Grainger
there. Now, you mentioned sports several times. What is your favorite sport outside of golf? Mean? You, you, I, I think I read in your book, but go ahead and share that with our listeners.

36:36 Ken Coleman
Yeah, I love the game of basketball. Yeah, love

36:38 Chris Grainger
the game. Well, and what would be your team?

Well, uh, you

36:44 Ken Coleman
know, I’m a college guy first and foremost, so, uh, I’m a big University of Michigan fan. My, my dad went to school there, so go blue for all you wolverines out there, uh, Wolverine Nation, you know, so, yeah, I, I certainly pull for. For the Wolverines, and he grew up in the ACC too, and from Virginia.

So my heart, I’ve got some heart towards, uh, Tony Bennett, the, the Virginia Cavalier as well. Okay, cool. For nba, I’m not like hardcore. I don’t have one team. I’m growing up, I was a Lakers guy because I love Magic Johnson. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, these days I’m just, I just like watching playoff basketball.

37:18 Chris Grainger
It’s something, playoff basketball is fun to watch.

I mean, I’m in heart of, of ACC country in North Carolina. I live right here. Duke, Carolina State, all of us. Right, right. Within a, a stone story of each other. So it’s ba basketball country here too. Yes, sir. Love it. Love it. So when you think about God, I know you’re a preacher son, but when you think about just God in general, what’s your favorite thing about God?

37:41 Ken Coleman
Um, Abba, father, I, I think of, of all of God’s personalities, it’s Abba. Um, because as a father now of three teenagers, um, how do you not. Appreciate Abba more than you know. Thank you. Amen. You know, all the identities of God. Uh, but certainly God the Father is the one that, uh, I appreciate the most because of the, uh, never ending love.

Um, amen. Completely unconditional love. We understand that as, as Feebles, our earthly minds are. We understand it when we have kids, right? That no matter what they do, we just cannot stop loving our kids. There’s nothing that we just couldn’t forgive them for. And so, uh, I think that would be, that would be my favorite aspect.

38:30 Chris Grainger
Absolutely love it. And I always like to do a 180 of that. What’s your least favorite thing about Satan?

38:37 Ken Coleman
He knows how to get us at our weakest and amplify it. He just absolutely is the greatest manipulator that the world has ever known. And he’s, he’s, he’s just, uh, great at it. Yeah, he’s so manipulative.

Uses other people, uses our inner thoughts. Uh, comes at us physically, comes at us mentally, emotionally. I just hate him, man. I would just love to torture his butt. I know,

39:06 Chris Grainger
I know. Well, his ti his time’s coming. It’s coming. It’s coming. That’s right. Our, our last two for you, Ken. So what, what’s that new habit that you want to create or something that you’ve created recently?

Uh, walking

39:20 Ken Coleman
around my neighborhood with my wife, you know, like we’ve just been heads down for so many years, you know, now the kids are all teenagers and one of them’s driving, you know, so he’s helping out with kind of the Ubering, and so we’re finding more time together in the evening because Okay. You know, they’re doing their homework, you know, it’s just, it’s, you’re not there yet, but it’s less intense as far as the.

The on, on deck, hands on kind of stuff, right? And so we’re finding, uh, walking in the evenings together is just, it’s just become a, a, a wonderful time of catching up. Uh, certainly good physically for us as well. So we try to walk about three miles every evening. Uh, doesn’t happen every evening due to our, our schedules, but, uh, that’s a new thing that I’m really looking forward to.

40:05 Chris Grainger
That’s awesome. That’s that intentional time with his wife guys. Don’t miss that, that, that’s very important. So can the last question, last question for you, Ken. What’s one thing you hope from the guys listening today, remember from our conversation,

40:19 Ken Coleman
uh, that they were created to fill a unique role and that means they’re needed and that means they must do it.

And there’s three challenges in that little sentence. You were created to feel a unique role. So there’s a challenge. If you’ve not figured that out in your, your uniqueness, you need to do it. Two, no matter what the world has said about you done to you, what a ex-wife, I don’t care what is going on inside your head, uh, because you were created to feel a unique role.

You are incredibly valuable no matter what you’ve done in the past, and there’s no sin or shame that has disqualified you. And then, uh, I, that last thing is, is you must do it. There’s a duty, there’s a duty for us to roar like lions to show up and, and be that alpha male in a society that’s, that’s made that a bad thing.

It’s a good thing. And, uh, you need to show up and be the best version of you professionally because that’s, that’s benefiting you financially and relationally and personally. And then show up as a husband. Show up as a dad. Even when you don’t feel like it.

41:27 Chris Grainger
Amen. Amen. Powerful stuff. So Ken, where do you want the guys to go to get your resources, your books?

Where would you like to point them? Social media, things like

41:35 Ken Coleman
that? Sure. Well, I’d say for any of you men out there that aren’t quite sure about your next step or you’ve never been sure about your direction, there’s an assessment that we have@kencoleman.com called the Get Clear Assessment and it will actually measure for you in great detail, give you a great report, and then a purpose statement based on the methodology you heard me talk about with Chris today.

Talent. What I do best passion, what I love to do and mission results that matter to me. It’s only 30 bucks. You can get it@kencoleman.com. All of my books. We have a ton of free resources@kencoleman.com as well. And then if you wanna listen to the podcast or join us on YouTube, ken coleman.com, that’s the place to go.

42:12 Chris Grainger
Okay? And we’ll make sure we have all those links and the show notes for you listeners out there. And Ken again, is an honor to meet you, sir, and to have you here. Anything else you’d like to share before we wrap up

42:20 Ken Coleman
today? Yeah. I want you and your audience to hear that what you’re doing is, is faithful and you stepped out and you’re doing good work.

And, uh, days when you think like you’re not making much impact, I promise you, you are. And uh, the Bible says in Hebrews, without faith, it is impossible to please God. And you are doing it, my friend. So I’m proud of you.

42:40 Chris Grainger
Don’t stop. Thank you so much, Ken. That means, that means the world Really sincerely.

Thank you sir. It’s been an honor and hope you have a wonderful day. The honor is

42:49 Ken Coleman
mine. Thanks for having me, Chris.

42:54 Chris Grainger
We have a resource that allows you to test how strong of a Christian leader you are. We designed a short quiz so you can see for yourself how prepared you are for the battle. Don’t worry. It’s multiple choice and it’s a lot of fun. So to access this free resource, visit the lion within us slash quiz.

That’s the lion within us slash quiz, and see if you are ready to unleash the lion within.

So guys, I hope you enjoyed that one. That was a lot of fun with Ken. Uh, again, we, he had a limited amount of time, so not quite as long a episode as we normally have fellas, but we still, we unpacked a lot, a lot and had that little bit of time for you. So hopefully you got, uh, a lot of resources there. Go back and check it out.

I’ll make sure you check the show notes too. We’re gonna be giving you all the resources he talked about to be able to get to, uh, the, the, the things like the get clear assessment, his books, all that information. And I’d highly encourage you to check out the Ken Coleman show for as well, particularly if you’re in a season of life where you’re struggling with your career or you’re trying to figure out where to go next.

He has tremendous resources and insight that may help you get that clarity that you’ve been searching for. The question of the week, this week we talking about is, are you doing the work that you were called to do? It’s a simple question guys, but a complex answer sometimes cuz you have to be doing the work that you were called to do.

And sometimes that does mean you have to make those adjustments. You may, may need to adjust your personal budget again. You’re making, you know, like Ken mentioned, $150,000 and you, you get called to this work over here where you’re making 20. Uh, you may wanna be, be careful about that. Okay. Make the right steps, but again, work towards what you’re called to do and trust the Holy Spirit to guide you along the way.

That’s the biggest advice I would give you is again, an honor to work with Ken. Hopefully this opened, uh, your eyes to so to the possibilities that exist out there, fellas. So again, check that stuff out. Share this out with someone else. If they haven’t listened, they haven’t listened to the show, this may be a good one to share with them because you know what?

Everyone has has a career, right? We all have work, we’re all are called to work. So maybe there’s some insights and here’s some wisdoms that would help them continue to grow and do the work that they were called to do. I highly encourage you as well to check out our, the line within us guys, jump in to our community.

We have a whole section in our community of built around wealth where we’re helping guys talk about careers, talk about finances, talk about things that, that we’re, that the talents that we have to do the work we’ve been called to do. The only way you can get in on that is you have to join the community again.

Now, if you’ve joined the line within this community, it’s 30 day free trial. You can hop in right there, the line within us. We also have the daily spiritual kickoff that’s offered as well to get you in the community. We have spiritual kickoff happening Monday through Friday each week. So we have all sorts of opportunities to serve you, to help you grow, be the leader you’ve been called to be.

Okay. So again, give us a rating, write a review. That would help big time, for sure. If you haven’t done that yet, please hook us up there. If you wanna support the show outside of joining the community, go to the donate page at the line within us. That’s a great way you can support the show, support the efforts, because I tell you what, it takes a lot of resources to bring these, uh, three podcasts a week out to you guys to have the community running.

There’s a ton of effort and work that goes behind it to help you just tap into the, the mandate. I know that you can be fellas, so consider being a supporter. You can be a monthly donor, you can be a one-time donor, whatever you, whatever works for you. But we would love your support. As you grow forward, again, we have shirts out there, we have there never retreat shirts.

I’m wearing one now for the guys that aren’t following us on YouTube. And by the way, follow us on YouTube. We’re putting a lot of content out on YouTube where we try to really give guys some, some good insight to help them. You lean in and apply some of these lessons to, to learn and to grow a lot of, I’m doing a lot of YouTube shorts and little quick snip things like that just to help guys grow.

So check us out on YouTube, subscribe again, we’re on Facebook, we’re on Instagram, all those platforms. But YouTube would love to have you over there, uh, and connect with us there as well. And you can also get all the episodes of the podcast on YouTube too. So if you want to see some of our guests first firsthand and actually see what their, their setup’s like, that’s a great way to check that out.

Fire fellas will get after it come back on Friday. I will have some fun tips for fun, some fun Friday tips for you rather, that’ll hopefully be able to help you grow in the areas of health wealth itself. We’ll talk about our book a week. I got a couple really good dad jokes. I think you’re gonna enjoy. So look forward to having you back here on Friday.

But again, hopefully this one serves you. You’re out there, you’re doing the work. I know you’ve been, you, you feel like you’re maybe stuck again and, and you don’t know how to move forward. Listen to conversations like this and then go out. Take action. All right guys. We’ll see you back on Friday. Keep unleashing the lion within.