Chris Grainger
Host
00:03
Welcome to The Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men. Who a hundred beta leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, chris Granger. Let’s jump in. All right, guys, meet up a so time, let’s get into it, but you know where it’s going to go any further until we get into the word first.
00:16
Okay, so this week we’re in the book of 2 Peter, 2 Peter, chapter one, and we look at two verses. They are a little bit longer, but, guys, hang with me here. It says for his divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness. There’s a true knowledge of him who called to call us by his own glory and excellence. Through these, he has granted to us his precious and magnificent promises so that by them, you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world on account of lust. Guys, powerful scripture right there. If you missed the spiritual kickoff, go check it out, because I really unpack those, those verses that led us into the conversation we’re having today. And it’s not going to be one, guys. It’s going to be comfortable, but it is going to be necessary because we’ll be talking about pornography. The impact is having on many Christian men on their marriages but, more importantly, how the battle can be over and you can be victorious. And we brought in the man himself who wrote literally wrote the book and he’s wrote a second book we’re going to talk about here.
01:28
But Fred Stoker, bestselling author of the book Every Man, every Battle, the Every Man series, is just a phenomenal series of books, guys. I’m telling you I got all the books from Fred that look through them, all got the resources. You’re not going to find anything more solid than what he has put together. And he challenges men all the time to be sexually pure and to reconnect and true intimate relationships with their wives. He encourages and equips men and women to rise up, to be the Christian rather than just simply seem Christian. He wants us to actually be it, guys. So I’m telling you he’s been nominated for so many awards and things like that And he went to Stanford University.
02:14
They have four kids that he lives in Iowa with his wife for 40 years and he has been sexually pure guys for over 30 years. And Fred talks about this openly, very transparent. It’s a very laid back, comfortable conversation about an uncomfortable topic. So hopefully you guys will enjoy this, particularly if this is an area of your life that you’re struggling with, And if it’s not an area that you are struggling with directly, i highly encourage you to pay attention because this could be. I guarantee you don’t have people in your life who are battling this battle right now. And the things he talks about for his children, how he raised them and the tips that he provided them to help them overcome and actually just fend off sexual immorality Incredible, absolutely incredible. So hopefully you guys enjoy this conversation with my friend, fred Stoker. So, fred, welcome to The Lion Within Us. How are you doing today, sir? I?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
03:15
am doing fabulous. It’s really good to be with you. Since meeting you, I’ve really enjoyed all of our discussions and I’m looking forward to talking this morning.
Chris Grainger
Host
03:25
Absolutely, Absolutely. Me too. Your resources have been phenomenal. But before we get into that, I always like to start off the show with just maybe a fun fact about you that not many people are aware of Fred.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
03:39
Wow, a fun fact about Fred. That’s pretty amazing. I really like traveling to England and to Scotland. That’s one of my favorite places on earth and not very many people know that.
Chris Grainger
Host
03:56
Yeah, so what are you like doing over there? Just seeing the sights, or anything?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
04:01
Yeah, i do. Scotland is a very rugged country And when I’m in Scotland it’s just a matter of driving until I get tired. I mean, i just love seeing everything there. London, of course, is one of the great cosmopolitan cities And when I’m there I’m pretty much let around by my wife and from store to store to museum to museum. So but I love it. It’s a beautiful city I love that That’s great.
Chris Grainger
Host
04:28
I’ve never been there. My wife has been, But that’s on our list to do. I’m sure she wants to get me over there eventually. I like that twist of my arm.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
04:36
Fred, i hate to be troubled, but you ought to go. That’s it.
Chris Grainger
Host
04:42
That’s it. Well, i’ve been excited about this conversation. I get, fred, to be honest, i get a lot of authors who come my way and they send me their resources and their books And I always read them. I think at a personal point, i don’t bring anybody on the show if I haven’t read their material. But your book, with this one battle on battle over it just spoke directly of, because I see so many guys that are struggle with the issue of pornography or sexual impurity And it just really did impact me so much. I reached out and I got to rest of your books And we were talking about that before we recorded it. I just think there’s so much to be learned here, so I’m excited. Maybe you could just get a start at the main message that you and your wife had that you are hoping to portray with battle on battle over.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
05:29
Well, yeah, i mean battle on battle over is. I consider it kind of my a capstone work for all my years of being a writer. You know it’s my 10th book and the beauty of battle on battle over is I had 30 years of purity in my life And so I’ve learned a lot of things and seen a lot of things that I’m not sure I would have seen had I not been pure all this time. I mean some things you just learn as you grow, and one of the things that has been remarkable to me as I’ve gone through my own ministry is I’ve found that really every man’s battle, which is the battle to be pure with our eyes and mind and in our sexuality I used to, you know, when I went through it, i kind of went through it alone and you can still win that way. But one of the things I found as I’ve counseled men through the years and perhaps, chris, you’ve noticed it too is that when I get a wife to join her husband in counseling with me on this issue, i have almost a 100% success rate in getting men free. When the wife is angry, which is a natural response, when she’s judgmental, again, i don’t judge her for it. It’s a painful time, but if she won’t join us, my success rate is usually under 50%, and so one of the things my wife and I wanted to do with this book excuse me is to point out that this is not just every man’s battle. It’s actually every couple’s battle, and so Brenda joined me in this, and I think six of the 16 chapters she wrote, and what her goal is to do is to help women know some of the best things they can do to help their husbands win.
07:29
Now the second main goal is that we are living through a time which is probably the only time in human history where women have been hooked on pornography, and that addiction is growing rapidly throughout our culture.
07:48
One of the reasons why we’ve never had it before is that before streaming technology, all we had were basically naked pictures of men, and that’s just not something that women are interested in A static picture. Their sexuality isn’t visual, so it’s not a big deal. However, their sexuality is relational, and since the pornographers have figured out that they can add a romantic bent to their pornography and that sort of thing, what we found is they’re getting hooked like crazy because literally there’s a ton of loneliness and disconnection in our culture these days, even though we have social media, literally, it’s getting worse and worse for people, and one of the strongest drivers of sexual addiction is loneliness and disconnection. So what we’re finding is that women are falling prey to that, everything from 50 shades to gray to actual porn sites. So those are the two main issues we’re trying to drive, and I am just kind of stunned at the responses of my readers so far. It’s been very gratifying and it’s helping people to see things in a new light.
Chris Grainger
Host
09:09
No doubt about it. Absolutely, the stats are unbelievable. Even when you look at the stats within the church, it’s scary. I mean, it really is I see it.
09:19
I see it within our community. The tagline is if you’re feeling lost and alone, we serve those Christian men. And I have to state you look at the smartphone. I think it really started came out 2012. So we’re a little over a decade in. How much things have changed. I mean, when I grew up, pornography was maybe you found a playboy at a buddy’s house or something, right, i mean, it’s static stuff. But now, if I hand this, i’m holding my phone for the guys who aren’t watching on YouTube. I hand this to my daughters. I might as well have them a loaded gun. You know, i’ve got an unlocked smartphone. The dangers are so real. I just don’t know that we recognize that.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
10:00
Yeah, i agree with that, And I don’t know how we. well, it’s an individual thing, then, to defend yourself. I mean, we all need smartphones to do our work, you know. but what would be really good is if we can get material in the hands of all of our Christian young men to learn how to guard themselves, because, literally, as you said, i mean, pornography is just a click away, and that’s kind of a messy slippery slope we’ve gotten ourselves into.
Chris Grainger
Host
10:35
It really is, And I think sometimes the guys get into it, The ones I talk to. The slippery slope is right, Like nobody wakes up and says I’m going to cheat on my wife today. I just I don’t think that’s in us, right.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
10:47
No, I really don’t think so. I agree with you.
Chris Grainger
Host
10:50
Yeah, it’s just so. It’s just one of those things like it’s just, like I said, the slippery slope, that one thing leads to another. This click leads to this click. The next thing you know you’re spending time where you shouldn’t spend time, and I’m so glad you mentioned the stats around attacking this with our spouse versus trying to attack this on our own and the success that you’re seeing there. So maybe just talk to that a little bit more on why. Why do you think guys are are hesitant for one to bring it to their spouses, but the but the impact that you have seen when they do bring it to the light?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
11:19
Well, i mean, obviously I don’t think any of us wonder why we don’t want to bring it up to our wives. I mean because the first thing that’s going to happen is they’re going to believe that it’s something weak in them, like maybe they’re not providing enough sexually, or maybe they’re not providing enough, maybe they’re not attractive enough, maybe they just don’t have what it takes Okay, and that’s a crushing thing for a woman. She’s breezing along in her life, living her dream, being married, raising kids, and then, all of a sudden, she finds out that her husband is hooked on porn. That’s a devastating time From the the male point of view, though having her choose to stay at his side and to fight that battle with him really changes everything, because you can imagine that if a man, if a wife, is feeling very judgmental, i mean she’s probably saying things like look, this is your problem, not mine. Deal with this And you can forget about having sex until you do.
12:29
I mean these are some very dramatic, painful things for a guy, and for a guy as well.
12:36
I mean he’s sitting there already feeling rotten about himself.
12:41
He thinks he’s a pervert, he thinks he’s a creep, for you know, going after the porn, and then, all of a sudden, his wife pulls a rug out from under him and says look, i don’t respect you enough to even deal with you. That creates more disconnection, more pain, more wounds in this life. And again, as we talk about in this book, it’s not just the fact that our eyes are wandering and we’re always looking at everything that we shouldn’t be looking at, but also there’s a second vulnerability in our sexuality, where our wounds and our stresses, they are something that we really like to medicate with pornography our sexuality. And so the more that our wife would pull away from us, the more wounds and pain we have and the more it tends to drive us towards more porn instead of less. So what I found is that, again, as wives can choose mercy over judgment, as they can become more educated about male sexuality that it isn’t about them as wives, it’s actually just about their husband’s sin and lack of discipline then they can come alongside and really help out.
Chris Grainger
Host
14:03
Absolutely, and that was probably one of the biggest takeaways I’ve had from reading the book was I know you just always think, and I had always associated pornography and the addiction to that is a sexual drive. But the way you highlight and your wife highlighted a lot of times it’s stress or it’s an outlet for other areas in your life, maybe it’s finances or whatever it may be, and this is a way that you cope. That connected a lot of dots, i mean. So recently I was coaching a young man and I was talking to him about that. He’s gone through school and exams and things like that.
14:37
He was confessing to me some issues And I said you know, you didn’t do that because of the hormones. It was more of a out, you were reaching out. You were doing that because of the stress and as a stressful time in his life. And then I gave him one of your books and now he’s working through that. So I mean, i just think that’s very illuminating. So I’d love for you to expand on that some for the listener who may not know about that?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
15:00
Yeah, i would love to, because, honestly, you know, when I fought my battle, i won my battle with my eyes and my mind. Okay, so you know, when I first engaged the battle, the Holy Spirit was really clear to me that my biggest issue was my eyes and my mind and I needed to put some fences around them and to guard myself. And I found that I got about 85% of the way free, and I talked about that aspect of my freedom and my battle in my first book, which a lot of people have heard of called Every Man’s Battle. But one of the things I found is that, even after I had my eyes and my mind under control and I wasn’t lusting, i had taken my thoughts captive, all those things I found that I was still finding myself masturbating quite often well, a lot more often than I thought I should be, since I wasn’t lusting and all that So, and I couldn’t quite figure out what in the world was going on. It didn’t make any sense, because my sex life with my wife was fine. It wasn’t like you know. I was, you know, going cold turkey or having a dry sex life of some sort, and I just couldn’t figure it out.
16:22
So I decided to really take a hard look at my life as to what might be driving that, and one of the things I found was that at the time I was in full commission sales and I was under a lot of pressure, because full commission sales means one thing If you don’t sell anything, your kids don’t eat. And that’s a lot of pressure. And one of the things I found is that on the nights that I would really buckle when it came to, you know, masturbation was I would. Those would be the nights where I was suffering the most under stress of finances. The other thing I found is I had a bad relationship with my dad growing up. He divorced my mom and the things just never got better after that And my dad never accepted me as a man. He always you know, he was a national champion wrestler And I was a football player. He always thought that was that I should have been a wrestler and he never accepted that. I know that sounds weird, but it is a very true thing. And one of the things I found then that as I went into life, i got married and on all that I found that I had a real doubt in my manhood my ability to really make it in the world of man. And one of the reasons, i think, was because of those wounds from my dad, who never really accepted me as a man, never told me that I was, never accepted me as one. So I found that on the nights that I was most weak in my sense of manhood, my feeling of being able to make it. Those were the nights too where I stumbled And as I understood that for the first time in my life, chris, i understood that sometimes sexual sin is not sexual at its root, and it was a huge breakthrough for me.
18:13
I didn’t realize it. I mean, obviously we’re using our sexual apparatus, you know, in those times, but what we’re actually doing is medicating the pain of our wounds or medicating the pain from our financial stress, whatever it might be. And when I finally figured out that some of my sexual sin wasn’t sexual at its root, that put the final nail on the coffin of my sexual sin, because once I knew that it was stress and wounds, then I could deal with it the proper way. I mean, before that I was just calling myself a creep, calling myself a pervert, calling myself names, thinking I was a rotten Christian. But what in reality was is. I just wasn’t approaching the roots correctly. So the root of my sin was not trusting God with my finances. The root of my sin was not trusting what God says about me as a man, and so I call this in the book our stealth vulnerability. Most of us never connected dots.
19:24
You made an interesting statement just before I began talking about this that you know you had passed on to this young man you’re talking to that it really wasn’t hormones, which is what most of us think. It’s. Actually this stresses in his life, by telling him that early it’s going to allow him to get free from his sexual sin early in life. I was young. When I finally figured out. I was in my 20s, so I finally figured that out And I was very excited Because once I began to pray about these things instead of using self gratification to deal with the stress, Within weeks my sexual sin was over And I was 100% pure then instead of 85% pure, and I can make this statement, a statement that most men can’t make I haven’t masturbated in over 30 years.
20:19
The other thing is I haven’t even jumped on a smartphone or jumped on a computer in 30 years. You know, specifically looking for something racy to, to you know, lust over. So that’s total freedom And that’s the kind of freedom that young men and older men can have if they simply understand this stealth vulnerability, that, hey, some of our sexual sin is not sexual at its root And we need to deal with it accordingly.
Chris Grainger
Host
20:50
Amen to all of that. So, guys, i’m gonna take a quick break. We’ll come back and dig into this even deeper. Are you enjoying the weekly spiritual kickoff? If so, we are now offering a way to participate in our live daily spiritual kickoffs that happen Monday through Friday in our community. This is your chance to chat with me directly and other members of our community, to dive into scripture and to leave with practical ways to simplify and apply God’s word to your daily walk. And here’s the best part You get all of this for just $5 a month. So, for what most people pay for breakfast meal, you can join us on this journey of spiritual growth and leadership, which will always lead you full.
21:35
Our community is dedicated to supporting each other and pushing forward in our faith. Come join me in the lion’s den and become the leader God intends you to be. Sign up now at the lionwithinus and let’s start this journey together. Remember, it’s only $5 a month for this amazing opportunity. So visit the lionwithinus so you don’t miss out. So, fred, you hammered on so many great things there and I want to touch on something here. There’s probably a guy listening right now, or multiple guys that are saying, thinking to themselves yeah, this is great, but I think it’s better if I look at porn and masturbate and then cheat on my wife. And when you hear stuff like that, what’s a message that you would give guys who have that type of mentality? because they don’t think it’s cheating, they’re not actually physically with someone else. I’ve heard this come up several times in our community. So how do you respond to that and point people to the sexual purity that you’re talking about?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
22:37
Well, first of all, to say that you can look at porn without betraying your wife is absurd, for one reason is your wife will never look at it that way. I know what we as men do is we compartmentalize that area of our lives and we say that’s not really sin, it’s just us having a little entertainment. Yeah, you share that with your average normal Christian wife. She sees it as betrayal And no matter how you see it. The second thing is God sees it as betrayal. We know Jesus Christ said that it’s not just well, he said that adultery includes looking at women And obviously that would include lusting over them and masturbating. So I mean, none of us go to porn sites to just simply look at women. But Jesus says that is adultery in and of itself. But if we go on ahead and masturbate as well, obviously that’s a form of having sex. So the fact is it’s a problem And we need to understand that. We have to look at this for what it is. It is betrayal. It’s betrayal of our wives. It’s also betrayal of God, because he’s asked us as his sons to live his way And we know from Ephesians 5, 3 that we’re not even to have even a hint of sexual immorality in our lives. So we’re breaking that very easily.
24:16
The base word, the base Greek word in that verse is pornea, which refers to visual sex. Just Any hint of that is a problem. And the next verse, ephesians 5-4, is we’re not even supposed to joke about these things. I mean, if just simply joking about these things is wrong, certainly looking at porn is wrong. So, and then the second thing I would say really about that, chris, is what in the world? why are we saying it’s better to look at porn than it is to have an actual affair? Well, i suppose in some sense it is, but why do you need either one? The fact of the matter is you’re married. Your wife should be providing all the sex that you need, and that’s where the connection, the one flesh connection, is supposed to come from, and that’s what God finds is beautiful. That’s why he created marriage in the first place. So I reject the either or concept. Both of those things have to be booted out of our lives.
Chris Grainger
Host
25:26
They absolutely do, and I’m just I’m curious too, as you’ve unpacked so much about your own personal journey it sounds like 30 years. I mean, that’s an incredible testimony right there to be sexually pure And maybe just to find for the guys that are listening, because we didn’t do this to start with, i probably should have When you what is your definition of sexually pure?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
25:48
Well, as a married man, I think it’s pretty simple. I’m not to get any sexual gratification from anything or anybody except my wife, okay, so obviously I’m not supposed to be lusting or fantasizing over any other women in my life And I’m not supposed to be getting any sexual gratification from anything on my computer or anything like that. So I think that’s a really simple definition. I think all of us, because we’re visual, we know what we mean when we say get sexual gratification. I mean when I stare at a woman in a string, bikini or a thong at the beach, all of us know we’re lusting. I mean, i don’t care what we say, and even if what we say were true, i mean in some sense, from the way we view ourselves. The fact of the matter is, if we put you on an MRI or some kind of a brain scan while you’re looking, there’s absolute proof that you’re looking at a girl in a thong on a beach, you’re getting sexual gratification and it’s being registered that way in your brain. One of the things we need to always remember is the brain is the largest sex organ in our body. I mean, we’re always focused between our legs. Fact is, our brain is the largest sex organ in our body And it’s the thing that processes all of those feelings. It’s the thing that processes all the gratification and it’s measurable and for us to reject that is crazy. So it’s actually the same thing for single men that we’re not supposed to get any sexual gratification from anything or anybody until we’re married.
27:40
Now that’s a kind of a brutal stand, but my two sons have both lived that way. From the time of puberty until now. They haven’t masturbated and they don’t get their. They’ve never learned how to medicate their stresses or their pain through their sexuality. It wasn’t something I mean I taught them early enough to stay away from these things.
28:04
We know from research that sexual sin, masturbation, looking at porn this is like heroin. When you compare the impact in the brain, when you look at what’s happening in the brain when people are looking at porn, it has the almost indistinguishable look to it as compared to what happens in the brain when we’re on heroin and cocaine. So the thing that we need to understand is that this is a drug, it’s a medication, it’s an addictive substance essentially, and I kept my kids away from that early And so they never learned how to use that as kind of their choice way of dealing with their pain in their lives, and so they’ve been able to stay free and trust God through the whole time I am curious to let’s pull a debt there a little bit more, because we had a lot of dads that listened right to the show and to hear that.
Chris Grainger
Host
29:01
So your sons are, they’re 20s, you said 20s, 30s.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
29:05
Yeah, actually they’re both in their 30s now. One of them’s married, but he went to his wedding altar. The other one is not married, he’s 31.
Chris Grainger
Host
29:14
Okay, so walk us through, as a dad, the things that you did. Give us some practical steps there to really give that wisdom to them, to guide them, to keep them out off of that track.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
29:28
Yeah, i mean I focus primarily on staying away from porn and visual temptation. I didn’t talk heavily about the masturbation aspect of it because I mean, if your son is staying away from, you know, the porn, staying away from the visual sex, you know he’s going to stay away from the masturbation for the most part. So let me give you an example of a kind of kind of an exchange I had with my son once. This is my 31 year old single son. He was playing football in high school. He’d asked me to teach him how to lift weights and we used to lift weights gosh, every other night, sometimes more. And we used to go to a club that was pretty plain. It wasn’t one of the big fancy ones with all the mirrors and, you know, women dressed in nothing. So we, it was kind of one of those free weight places. It was all concrete and free weights and iron, and so women never went there. But one day three teenage girls in tank tops came and they were just giggling and goofing around and all the other guys, honestly, I kind of looked around just because of my ministry and they were just, you know, telescoping eyes, bing, bing, bing, bing, looking at these girls. And you know, my son wasn’t, because I had trained him at that point And we just kind of went on with our workout.
31:02
But as we left our workout, it was really interesting. My son was probably a step and a half behind me and I heard him say dad, you know, i don’t think girls should be able to lift weights. And I kind of chuckled, i kind of knew where this was going. And then he suddenly said well, hey, it’s not that I don’t think they need to lift weights, because if they’re athletes they do. But and I broke in and I said it’s because of what they were wearing, right? And he said yeah, and he said do you think they know what they’re doing to us when they do that? And I said well, son, i don’t really think they always do. I said sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. But I said that really doesn’t matter. What matters is what we do as men. And I said so, this is what we’re gonna do the next time that happens.
31:54
What I want you to do is just kind of keep your eyes on them with your peripheral vision to kind of know where they’re at, and just keep your eyes turned away. I’ll do my lift and then, when it’s your turn to do your lift, i’ll keep them in my peripheral vision, kind of keep them out of our main sight and we’ll be fine. I said the reason I want to do it that way is because I’ve learned in life that you cannot lust through your peripheral vision. It’s impossible. And so he got silent. I’d started driving home. It’s about a 10 minute drive home. About halfway there He said dad.
32:31
He said I’m really glad you told me about peripheral vision. I would have never thought of that on my own. So here you have, a father and son just openly talking about these things, And I’m sharing things that I’ve learned in the battle that he can apply in his life. So he doesn’t have to learn all of the painful stuff I learned. He just gets to benefit from it. So the first thing I want to do is share that story just so that fathers can understand. Hey, this is something you need to talk about very clearly, very openly.
33:05
But the way that you do that probably the most critical thing I ever did with my kids is doing something that I call doing book with them or going through books with them. And I wrote a book called Preparing Your Son for Every Man’s Battle, and in that book the first 10 chapters are just a parent’s section as to how to go through topics like this and open these topics up with your kids so that these topics become very easy to talk about. And really, basically all that we did is we would sit down maybe three nights a week and I would just kind of glance ahead and go, hey, let’s read these next four to six pages and then we’ll talk about it. And as I would read through those pages, i would underline key points. And I might be going through a James Dobson book, i might be going through a dating book, i might be going through John Eldridge’s book, wild at Heart, a Manhood book, whatever it might be. But we would go through those pages, i would write And then we would. After we would read through those pages, we would come back and we just sit and talk like a couple of people sitting around a campfire and I would bring up those points.
34:19
And my goal in that was to share with things that I learned in my past with my kids, tell them stories about dating, tell them stories about how I tripped up sexually or whatever. And there were many times I would share old stories and I would literally start weeping because the pain of what I did to a girl or the pain of being embarrassed when a girl would be offended by me, whatever. And it enabled my kids first of all to hear about my own wisdom of growing up, from growing up, but also it enabled me to pass on truths, biblical truths that might have been in these books that we’re going through or biblical truths in my own head that I was able to share just because the book gives us a launching point to have these discussions. So I think going through books with my kids was the main way that I raised four kids who love sexual purity and who love God, and they’re still chasing God to this day. My oldest is almost 40 and then I’ve got two girls and I’ve got the youngest. Who’s the son Right?
Chris Grainger
Host
35:32
Well, guys, you got some practical advice right there. We’ll be hey, when we take a quick break, we’ll be right back. Are you ready to unlock your true potential? Introducing 30 Days to Unleash the Lion Within A revolutionary series that will transform you into the leader God intends you to be In just 30 days, you’ll embark on a journey of self-discovery and growth. This free resource offers a series of messages, each packed with proven methods to simplify and apply God’s word to your life. Inside this series, you’ll find practical strategies to unleash your leadership potential. You need to learn how to harness the power of God’s wisdom and apply it to your everyday decisions, discover how to lead with integrity, inspire others and make a lasting impact. But this just isn’t another series. It’s a transformative experience that will help you find your purpose, ignite your passion and unleash the lion within. So visit the lionwithinus forward, slash, unleash to claim your free copy of this series. Don’t wait any longer. Visit the lionwithinus forward, slash, unleash and become the leader God intends you to be. Fred, i’m glad you went there because I really wanted to know.
36:55
From a dance standpoint, it’s hard enough. As for guys, just to talk about the birds and the bees with our kids, sometimes just to have those conversations. This kind of amps up the anxiety a little bit for a lot of guys just talking, when you start talking about pornography or masturbation And man it just. You talk about the uncomfortable feeling. But I think that wisdom there of using books, using resources to help navigate those conversations where they’re a little bit more natural, because, yes, we can’t just bury our heads in the sand and expect the school system or something to teach them about this stuff, because it’s not gonna happen.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
37:29
Well, they’re gonna teach them stuff, but it’s not the right stuff. And the goal in doing book for me was to make it very, very natural. I think all of us have been at campfires sitting around with a bunch of guys and just how relaxing that is, how natural conversations can unfold. I mean guys in general, we’re not real great conversationalists in the same way that we normally see with women, so you put us in the right. I don’t know Environment, though we do pretty well, and one of the things I found is that, if I would go first, let’s say we’re talking about.
38:11
I remember with the James Dobson book there was a topic of kids making fun of each other. Well, as we began to talk about that, i shared what kids used to make fun of me about. Okay, the moment I go first, then I can ask the question hey, does anybody ever make fun about you? And then he can share because his Superman dad was mocked. So hey, it’s. You know I can share this and I don’t have to feel stupid in front of my dad.
38:42
And that’s the real thing that I found is, as I would share these stories, my kids could really learn, they could be amazed who they consider to be their perfect father wasn’t always perfect, and it enables us to go deep. And here’s the thing Once I would start going through books with my kids, nothing ever became hard again for any of us to talk about My kids. Still to this day. They’ll call me, they’ll say, hey, can we get together? And a lot of times we go right down to the guest room in our house and they’ll still that’s where we used to go go through books together. But they like that environment and they just like being able to openly talk about tough things.
Chris Grainger
Host
39:31
So important to be able to have that dialogue like that man. I think that’s something that just doesn’t come natural and something that I think I’m just so thankful that you have these types of resources for us as men to be able to have these conversations And not be ashamed about it and just to bring it out into the light and hold the stuff you know quick, trying to keep it in the dark. I am curious to Fred, as we talk accountability, and for guys in particular, i know for our community we’re really big on accountability. We like to try to give guys accountability in different areas. We have a master in mind when we do that. Where do you see accountability line up here? Do you guys need that to be able to walk this stuff out?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
40:15
Well, as I said earlier, it’s certainly possible to do it on your own. I did Okay, and sometimes I think one of the reasons why I did it that way is only because I didn’t know anybody else was even suffering. I did not know. I literally thought that I was the only basically pervert on the earth that was a Christian and yet doing this.
Chris Grainger
Host
40:42
So it’s crazy how the evil one man he gets Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
40:49
And it’s just crazy. Sometimes I think about the thoughts I thought, and you know, the fact is it’s every man’s battle practically everyone suffers with. I just didn’t know it. Yeah, okay, so let’s get to accountability. In my first book, every Man’s Battle, i have a very large section on accountability, because I’ve come to understand over time that accountability makes everything easier in this battle. Now I’m not talking about the accountability where we all get together every week and just talk about how we fell and then pat each other on the back and say, okay, see you next week to talk about the next time we fall. That’s bizarre. That’s not what accountability is designed to be. What accountability is designed to be is where we are like I was with my son in the story I shared earlier where we are sharing useful things. We’re learning either from our own life on the battlefield or through books that we’re reading, and you know we’re helping each other win in battle on battle.
41:57
Over the book we’re talking about today, i share a story. There’s a chapter on fasting where I share a story about a friend of mine who, when he was in his 20s and he had a couple of friends in their 20s, they decided to get together and fight this battle together, and they were losing The accountability wasn’t working very well until they decided to fast together And the victory over the sexual sin was almost immediate as they began to fast together and focus on praying for each other. Now you know the hard thing, chris. In this day in the Western Christian world, things like fasting, you know people will complain and say, well, that’s such an archaic thing, how can that possibly work? These guys have been fighting this battle together for months and months and months And then when they began fasting, they won almost immediately. And really the way he explained it was that he was able to replace that desire for sexual sin with a stronger intimacy with God, which is what fasting leads to.
43:15
And we know that sexual sin a lot of times is a problem because we don’t have genuine intimacy in our lives. It’s really important for us to develop genuine intimacy with God. So in the book I talk about forming tight intimacy with God through one-on-one worship. Every morning which I just did it again this morning spent time singing to the Lord out loud, and you know there’s a precious connection that he and I have. I also fast, probably not as regularly as I wish, but because fasting is hard, but I do fast on a regular basis. That keeps my connection tight.
44:01
And then I read my Bible every day as well, which we need to understand that the Word of God is Jesus Christ incarnate. Basically, i mean, he is the Word of God. So when we have a connection, when we read the Word of God, we’re literally connecting with Him one-on-one, and so one of the things I really stress in the book is that we need to develop a soul that’s capable of holding being the foundation for sexual purity over a long time. And, as I said, you know, it’s been 30 years for me. Well, part of the reason it’s been 30 years is not just because Fred’s special or that Fred has some kind of Arnold Schwarzenegger brutality of facing life. No, it’s that I formed a deep, genuine intimacy with God through one-on-one worship, through fasting, through reading the Bible, and so because of that, my soul is strong and I’m able to have a foundation that can hold purity over that period of time.
45:09
What most people think is that they just want to have a quick fix. Give me a trick or two that I can apply. Well, i do give those. In every man’s battle. Those things are important too, but I think for long-term development of your soul. I think you have to be about that as well.
Chris Grainger
Host
45:28
Absolutely. I love those three tips on the worship, the fasting and the Bible. And I must admit, when I read the worship piece, i brought it up at my discipleship group because that was a new one for me so far as worshiping by yourself, because, if I remember correctly, you worship, you sing by yourself. This is how, before you start your time in the Word, correct.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
45:52
Yes, actually, sometimes it’s either way, but I always start before I pray, i always worship, because worship really sets that connection with God and my prayer life stays vibrant. I think a lot of people recognize the concept of a prayer life that’s dry, where it feels like you’re praying and nothing’s happening in a thousand Just checking boxes.
Chris Grainger
Host
46:19
Yeah, yeah.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
46:21
What I’ve found, that, since I started one-on-one worship, where, again, i’m singing out loud, i’m focused entirely on the Lord. That sets me into a position where, then, my prayer life is vibrant, and it stays vibrant over time.
Chris Grainger
Host
46:35
Yeah, Well, I mean, that’s a great tip. And on the fasting, maybe for the guys out there again, you never know where people are in their spiritual journey. What does fasting look like for you? How long do you typically do it? What are you replacing that with? Are you getting some practical tips there?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
46:52
Yeah, first of all, let me talk about the guys that I talked about in the book. Those guys were essentially fasting. They were fasting all food and it would be a day at a time and on average, maybe two days a week. Fasting all day without food. That literally puts your flesh in its place. What they found is that, as they began to do that a couple of times a week again, it would replace that desire for sexual sin with a desire for deeper connection with God. That’s a good trade, and I would say that a lot of the guys that I deal with when it comes to sexual sin it’s that one day fast of all food. That’s the thing that really helps them.
47:49
Now, with myself a lot of times, what I’ll do is I’ll fast for maybe 21 days, but it’s not all food. I literally drink milk, i’ll drink fruit juices and things like V8 juice, and that’s all I’ll do is just juice, but I’ll do it for 21 days. The interesting thing for me is that the first day is always brutal. It’s just your whole body is screaming for normality. But there’s a couple of things that happen, usually around the third or the fourth day I get so spiritually in tune that I mean I can’t even go into prayer without tears everywhere And I am intensely aware of my failings before God and where I need to grow, and then for the rest of the fast I can pray about those things, work on those things. The other thing is is that I just find myself being more interested in the purposes of God And my intercession is more intense during that time And I find that I can hear God’s voice better. My hearing ear and my spiritual ear is just clearer, and so I usually enter these 21-day fasts with a goal in mind. I remember there were ministry things at times that I would do that. Other times it was specific things I was praying for, say my daughters or my sons direction maybe, or spouses, whatever it might be.
49:43
So I don’t think that fasting is. I don’t think that there’s any one right way to do it. I mean I literally have one friend who has been on 40-day fast, the kind that they talk about in the Bible, with only water. I don’t even know how they do it, i mean, but they did. But I think that the main point of fasting is to allow God access to your flesh in ways that he otherwise can’t have access. I mean only through fasting, i found, is can he really get access to some of the deepest parts of me? Because I don’t even become aware of those things either until I’m fasting. So the main point is not hey, ha, ha, i didn’t have food, i’m better than you. Obviously, that’s dumb. The main idea behind fasting is that you are turning your full attention to God and allowing him full access. Right, right.
Chris Grainger
Host
50:48
Love, the love, the insight there. Hey guys, we’re gonna take our last break. We’ll be right back. We have a resource that allows you to test how strong of a Christian leader you are. We designed a short quiz so you can see for yourself how prepared you are for the battle. Don’t worry, it’s multiple choice and it’s a lot of fun. So, to access this free resource, visit the lion within dot US slash quiz That’s the lion within dot US slash quiz and see if you are ready to unleash the lion within. So, fred, again, the book’s phenomenal. Thank you for an insight there. Now you have a workbook that comes along with every man’s battle with their that you can get to come. Can you kind of explain what the what the purposes of the workbook is and how that can help guys in their in their battle against you know this sexual impurity.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
51:45
Yes, the workbook is designed to well help with that accountability aspect, for one thing because you have a workbook that you can go through together with other guys, and it also is designed for small group format. So if you’re in a small group, that you’re meeting once a week and maybe going through this book together, i’ve already built all of the questions, i’ve built some of the studies into that so that it makes your conversations easy. One of the things that’s hard for small group leaders is, gosh, they’re busy, like all of us. I mean, they’ve got their work, they’ve got their families, and then to also somehow create a study guide each week so that they can lead their group, that’s hard, and so what I’ve done is, you know, basically done it for them. And the best thing about this, i think, is that it’s free.
52:43
You can go to battleonbattleovercom and you just download, you know, that workbook. You can either do that as an individual or as a study leader and then kind of work through it together. I haven’t quite completed them yet, but I’m also going to create a video introduction to each week’s study. My daughter and I are just looking for the time to do it, but I think it’s important for men to see me and to hear my heart and then to go through the study that way. I think that’s also a nice thing for the leader to have me say a few things about that week’s study before they start.
Chris Grainger
Host
53:26
Absolutely. I mean someone, I mean for my discipleship group. We go through books and I always try to find resources like that and study guides because you’re right, You’re busy and you’re putting this stuff together, But a lot of times as you, as you, as the author, you know the prompting questions and the areas that we need to dig into And it’s just good to have those resources available.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
53:47
Right And I think it’s good to have them free right online. I mean, you mentioned earlier, chris, that you know on our smartphones we can sit there and pull up porn anytime we would like. Isn’t it nice that we can also pull up an anti-porn study guide anytime we like? And we need to use our smartphones and our computers in the ways that are advantageous to us and not destructive.
Chris Grainger
Host
54:12
Absolutely. Another reason why we started, you know, this podcast and the resources we try to put out, because there’s just so much darkness out there for it. I mean, i have four little ones right now, all under the 12 years old, 12 and under and to think, the things that they’re going to be, you know, exposed to potentially and not even, you know, intentionally It’s just like I know they’re going over to friends’ house and friends come over here Sometimes, sometimes for sleepovers and stuff, and they’re friends are starting to get smartphones. It’s just, it’s inevitable They’re going to, they’re going to run across it. So I got to do what I can to make sure that, the first of all, they understand that they’re daughters of the king, they’re fearfully and wonderfully made All the things that I need to start speaking into their life. But also I got to be a little more intentional and proactive on the just talking about the potential risks and exposures that are out there and have to have a deal with it when they come across their plate.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
55:05
Yeah, and you know, chris, i don’t know really anything about your life growing up, but I mean, i got myself into a lot of different jams and we need to be sharing our own life’s experiences. This is what I found, chris, is is there’s a lot of voices speaking into my kids’ lives as they’re growing up? Yeah, but mine has to be the loudest, and the only way it’s the loudest It’s not by me shouting the loudest or making the strongest rules or any of those things. It’s by making that opportunity that I mentioned earlier from my book Preparing Your Son, making the opportunities where you are talking to them. It doesn’t take that long. I mean, all I have to do is look in the book and say let’s read six pages tonight Anybody can do that And then just read it together and then talk about your past experiences as they apply to that section.
56:05
I mean, chris, if you would do that, you’ll be the loudest voice in your kids’ lives and you’ll be their best friend. And I know every dad listening here wants that. They want to be the loudest voice, not just because they’re the leader, but just because they know that’s the one. I mean, they’re the ones that love their kids more than anyone else. And again, all of us want to be our kids’ best friends, not because we want to be easy parents, but because we know if we’re their best friend, they’re going to come to us as their go-to source, and my kids still do that with me. So I would recommend it And not just you, chris, but to anybody out there. It doesn’t take a lot of time to go through books like that, and if you need guidance, just go to preparing your son for every man’s battle and read the first 10 chapters. You’ll know everything I know and be able to apply it in the same way as soon as you read those chapters.
Chris Grainger
Host
57:02
So love it And we’ll make sure that all those recent there’s links and the resources for you guys, the show notes for you guys. I couldn’t get that outright, But there you go. You guys know where to go when you listen to the show. So go to those show notes and check that stuff out. Well, a friend, before we wrap up today, I love to do a lightning round with you. We call it feeding time at the lion with this one, oh boy.
57:22
Oh boy, just a little bit of fun. We’ve been. we’ve had a fairly serious conversation for the last 50 minutes, but let’s, let’s wrap up on a little lighter note. if you’re willing to jump in, okay, sure, all right. So what’s? give us a hobby or something, fred, that you enjoyed doing for fun.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
57:37
Oh, you’re going to laugh, but I actually love working in my backyard. My wife has kind of created a hobby for us. Okay So planning, planting and growing things.
Chris Grainger
Host
57:53
So that’s the role that my wife. She is a gardener herself. We are in the middle of selling our house, where you actually want to move to a little small farm, so I think there’s a lot more planning and gardening in my future, i think. So I told her we would do it, but I get to have a tractor, so that’s the account to take off.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
58:09
Oh boy, oh boy.
Chris Grainger
Host
58:11
If you have a toy, it’s worth it. Yeah, yeah, you know. Plus, i got a little boy now, so we’ve got to have a tractor. Oh yes, get out there Absolutely. So yeah, good stuff, love it. So what is your? what’s your favorite food? If you can only have one meal each day, what do you go have every day?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
58:28
It would definitely be something with salmon. Salmon is my very favorite food.
Chris Grainger
Host
58:33
Okay, we had a lot of that in common too, fred. I’m a big, i have salmon at least once or twice a week. So, yeah, i love it. Love it too, it’s like candy. That’s right. And if I don’t, if I actually snack on it, i just go rip up on the pack of salmon. You are the man. Yeah, it’s just good man. So, anyway, all right. So a little bit more serious when you think about God, what’s your favorite thing about it?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
58:59
Oh, just how Funny. he is. personal, he’s a good friend. Yeah, i’ll just say that love it.
Chris Grainger
Host
59:09
What about Satan? What’s your least favorite thing about him?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
59:13
Oh I, I despise everything about him, but what I hate most is how he tricks us with sexual stuff and makes us to believe that, oh, because God made us sexual, that we should be able to use that. I think that’s the thing I hate most, yeah totally get it.
Chris Grainger
Host
59:37
If you look at your life right now, is there anything that you’re currently struggling with?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
59:44
You know, one of the things that I am working on right now is just my love for my brothers and sisters in Christ, and let me explain. I get frustrated with the Western Christian Church because we’re so much like the world and we don’t make a stand. And one of the things that I’m really working on is understanding that that’s literally pretty normal because of the way we’re created and that I need to really love my way through that and have mercy in my thoughts. I know that sounds weird, but that’s something that I don’t like about me And I actually just prayed about it again this morning.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:00:41
Okay, Well, let’s, let’s. We got two more for it in our lightning round. So what’s? what’s a new habit? So maybe something you’ve recently created or something that you want to start moving forward.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:00:52
A new habit. Yes, sir, okay, yeah, it would be daily walking, that’s something.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:01:04
Yeah, okay, you can’t. I can’t overemphasize the importance of this. Moving guys, you got to get after, you got to get moving. You can’t, can’t sit still. So I don’t have that problem, because I’m just naturally fidgety, and I think my son got that too, so he’s always over, but hey, he gets it from his dad. So so our last question here, for for our lightning round What is one thing that you hope the guys that are listening to our conversation today remember the most?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:01:34
Oh, that sexual purity is not impossible, that you can have a kind of victory that leads to 30 years of success. I think that the one thing that most men don’t know is that it’s literally possible to walk in purity. You don’t have to struggle to your last breath. You can actually live in freedom. I want everyone to know that now not every man will step up and and engage the battle that way, but at the very least I want them to understand that when God says we can be free, we can Amen to that Amen.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:02:12
So, fred, where do you want the listeners to go to check out your resources? your materials connect with you. just any, any, any direction will be great here, well.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:02:21
I think the website battle on battle over dot com is a really nice spot. And then I have a second website is just simply Fred Stoker dot com. Both those sites I think are be useful for people to certainly get the resources, But there’s other things on there as well, Okay we’ll make sure we have that stuff in the show notes for you listeners out there.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:02:44
Are you on any social media channels or anything like that for it? Yeah, i mean I’m on Instagram.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:02:49
I’m in. I haven’t quite started my YouTube YouTube channel, but I’m working actually with a consultant right now where we’re going to be building up my content out there, So Instagram is the best spot to find me right now, Okay and it’s just under Fred Stoker.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:03:08
Okay, all right, we’ll try to put that link out there for you guys as well. So, fred, is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners today?
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:03:17
No, i just you know the. The main thing that I like to say is that you are a man built to fight great battles and live great adventures and to defend your family, and it’s time to fight this battle, win this battle, have your wife join you on this great adventure and then defend her with all you’ve got Once you’re pure. I think that’s. That’s kind of how I see life, and I love being a man that’s built to fight great battles and to live to truly live God’s ways. So go out there and win.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:03:54
Amen, amen. A great charge at the end with Fred. Thank you so much for today. It was an absolute honor to have you on, sir.
Fred Stoeker
Guest
01:04:01
Chris, you’re a blessing to me. Thank you.
Chris Grainger
Host
01:04:07
Alright, guys, i know that was a powerful one. I know we went deep in a lot of areas, but I’m telling you, these types of conversations matter. We’ve got to have these resources. You guys, if, even if you have a lion’s den right now with a couple guys in it, the statistics of show that’s, there’s probably a couple guys in that lion’s den that are battling this And you can’t just turn your head and hide, you can’t just run. No, we got to stand firm, we got to fight. You have to know how to fight.
01:04:31
So this conversation, this episode, was all about giving you the resources you need to fight, to be victorious, to stand firm and to know that the battle may be on but also the battle’s over. We know this. So the question I want you to think about right now is, as you kind of go into the end of the show, do you yearn for freedom from sexual sin? Because you really need to yearn for it yourself. This can’t just be something that you think, well, that’d be nice. No, you got to want it. And if you want it, guys, it is out there. You can overcome it. You got to claim it. Then you got to go to work. So I’m telling you go check out the resources in the show. Knows, this is a book right here. Every battle on battle over is highly recommended guys. It’s very practical. A lot of tips in here. And check out the workbook as well. The workbook is full of questions. So maybe you guys have your discipleship group My mind meets on Saturday.
01:05:31
Maybe this could be an opportunity for you to introduce a subject matter like this in a way that could open up conversations that you and your guys have never had before. Right Now, you got to be the leader, but if you’re listening to the line within us, you know, i know that you’re the leader or you want to be. We’re going to help you get there. So go check that out. Check those resources out for sure. Share this episode out. I’m telling you, conversations like this matter, don’t be shy. Share it out. Give us a rating review and then pop on over to the lion within us. That’s the lion within that us guys. We’ve redesigned the website. We have so many resources out there for you guys. Now, obviously, we have our community rocking and rolling. We have our daily, our daily spiritual kickoff. I want you to check out either one of those and then our leadership coalition Guys. It is coming. We’re so excited about this.
01:06:21
So if you are in business, or if you are a leader in business somewhere, whether you work for yourself or work for other people, this is an opportunity for you to learn leadership principles directly from God’s word to be able to apply it into your workplace. How awesome is that? So we’re not just going to be talking about how we can be a good Christian on Sunday. Nope, we’re going to talk about how we can be a strong Christian leader every day of the week. This is not just for people who work in the church. This is for anyone out there, because wherever you are, whether it’s in the mission field or whether it’s in the secular workforce, you are on mission for Christ.
01:07:01
So let’s get out there. Let’s do it together. So come on back on Friday for a Fun Friday episode. We’ll have some good tips for you guys, as well as a couple of dad jokes. We’ll get you ramped up going through the weekend. So stay strong. If you are battling the issues of pornography in your life, you do not have to do this alone. I’m telling you guys don’t do it alone. We were meant to be in a relationship with others. Reach out, get some support and unleash the lion with it.