00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the lion within us, a podcast, serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders they’re predestined to be. I’m your host, Chris. grainger, let’s jump in our guys. This is the big episode for us this week. We’re gonna be talking about standing strong in culture today, standing strong cause guys we’re lions.

We don’t lie down and his hat to us in the scripture of the week. This week, we’re talking about a Feagins six, 13, let’s go back to this birth. Therefore take up the full armor of God so that you will be able to resist on the evil day and having done everything to stand firm, we had a stamp from gas and for the, so for this episode, I’m very excited to introduce you guys, Mr.

David. Behnam I tell you what big time. Right. So twin brothers, David and Jason Benham, their former professional baseball player. Nationally acclaimed entrepreneurs and best-selling authors guys. They do it all. Okay. They’re rapid RAs success earned them a re a reality television show with HDTV that was set to air in the fall of 2014.

01:09 David Benham
Yet this the show was abruptly

01:11 Chris Grainger
canceled because of their commitment to biblical values. And, you know, they’ve appeared on CNN, Fox news, ESPN ABCs, nighttime, and go good morning, America, you know, and the, the, the bedrooms continue to stand up for what they believe, what they believe it. Since their show was canceled, the brothers currently traveled the country in a courage, Christians to stand boldly for their faith, whatever the costs, David and his brother, Jason have combined nine children.

That’s right. You heard me nine children and they live on the same street in Charlotte. Guess you just can’t separate twins. The brothers, they, they help leaders achieve a thriving business, financial freedom, and a life impact through their online coaching@venombrothers.com. So guys check out the show notes.

We’ll sink that all that stuff is sinked up for you, but I’m excited. This is going to be a powerful conversation. Guys can bring you a ton of value. So before that, not going to make you wait any longer gas, let’s get into it.

What David, welcome to the line with Dennis. How you doing

02:14 David Benham
today, man? I’m doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me on bud. Oh, I’m

02:18 Chris Grainger
so excited to have you on so excited. I was, I kind of put it out there on our Facebook group that I was going to be talking to a former major league player and some of the guys were like, who is it?

Who is it? I’m

02:27 David Benham
like, yeah, you gotta wait. Let

02:28 Chris Grainger
tell you that. I’m sure this will be exciting when this one comes out. My friend and the scripture you talked about was a species six man. We’re talking about, you know, putting on that four armor of God so that we can stand from. Yes. I’m just curious, you know, get us started, could go back to your story and just

02:49 David Benham
get our listeners up to speed.

Well, you know, and Ephesians six, uh, we see, and especially us men, you know, those that are listening to this podcast, it’s really important that we don’t see the battle that we fight as a physical battle, but it’s a spiritual battle. Those are the forces that we fight against our spiritual forces of darkness.

So we always win because we serve the risen Christ. He’s already snatched the authority from the spirits of darkness, and now he exercises authority through us. Yeah. We can allow the devil to get in when we don’t stand in our place of responsibility as humble man, loving our wives, leading our homes. And if you’ve messed up, if you’ve lost your wife, if you’ve lost your home, that’s okay.

You can ask God to forgive you. And then the blink of an eye, he can course correct you. And then you get locked back into biblical community. The cool thing is about efficient. Not only is it a spiritual battle, but the Lord gives us the armor that we’re supposed to have. Right? And so we have the, it starts with the belt of truth.

And that really Chris, to be honest is what’s under attack right now in this nation. People say it’s conservative liberal or it’s Republican Democrat. No it’s truth versus lies. It’s light versus darkness. When you say that, uh, uh, a man can become a woman. And now the crazy thing, and I’m going to say this, it sounds crass, but it’s true.

It’s happening in public schools and other states right now, they’re putting tampon dispensers in men’s bathrooms. I saw that day unbelief because that’s supposed to be the most tolerant thing that you can do. This is insanity. We’ve been so open-minded our brains have fallen out, but this is truly a spiritual battle.

The belt of truth is the first thing that we put on in the Ephesians six battle armor. And if you don’t think about this, Chris, if you didn’t have your belt. In battle and your pants fall down around your ankles. How’s that going to be for that fight? And you fight somebody with your pants around your ankles.

You’re doing all the other, all the other battle equipment. You’ve got to have the belt of truth. And so we’ve got to be willing to stand for truth, to speak the truth in love. And unfortunately, we, as men, many times have abandoned that because we don’t want the conflict or we don’t want to be criticized or ridiculed or called something that we’re not, which is my brother and I’s story.

And I’ll tell you that here in just a minute, but then, then you’ve got the shield of faith, which means the devil is going to shoot darts at you. And, uh, and you got to expect that. So when they come, don’t crumple up into a, uh, a heap over in the corner, crying that God don’t love, you know, just say, okay, this means I’m serving the Lord.

Like the devil’s coming at me. You have the helmet of salvation. It all stands there. You have the boots of peace. You have the breastplate of righteousness. That’s really important for us, man. We gotta be righteous. That covers the heart. You take a heart shot. I mean, we’ve got to be righteous. The scripture teaches us who may ascend the hill of the Lord.

He who has clean hands and a pure heart. He may ascend the hill of the Lord. See, this is, this is, what’s so important about Christ’s words where he says blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled. Sometimes we hunger and thirst for money will hunger and thirst for women, or will hunger and thirst for alcohol and we’re hunger and thirst for something status bang.

But are we hungering and thirsting for righteousness? That’s what the that’s our should be. Our primary requests to the Lord has helped me to hunger and thirst for righteousness. And then of course, lastly, we have the sort of the. And that’s the sort of the spirit that’s, you know, like the spirit of God through his word, uh, will lead us and guide us.

And, and so my brother and I had to put this, this weaponry on, uh, early, as young kids, our dad raised us, we were in Dallas, Texas. So I know you’re a wake forest. Boy. I grew up a Dallas cowboy fan. So I assume you’re a Panthers fan. Now I live in Charlotte now. So I’m a Panthers fan too, but, but it’s second to the Cowboys.

God watching his favorite football team has got a hole in the stadium so he can watch his boys play. But it seems like God has abandoned the boys here over the last several decades. So I don’t know what’s going on there, but Cowboys fan that’s right. Please pray with me about that. God would get his favorite team back into the super bowl.

But anyway, so my brother and I raised in Dallas and he was a pastor and he’s the guy that, uh, led Norma McCorvey, who is the Jane Roe of Roe V. Wade. He led her to Christ and I remember her. Leading her lesbian partner to Christ Ms. Connie. And we went to Walmart, got a blow up swimming pool, baptized her.

It was pretty awesome, but I watched the power of the gospel change, even the hardest hearts. And finally, when I was 12, the gospel of Christ changed my heart heart. And I asked the Lord to come into my life and to forgive me. And between 12 and 17, of course, I had a lot of conflicts, real little rebellion and everything that happens with puberty between 12 and 17 and on, and just like any other man.

And so I had to learn to walk righteously before the Lord with the discipline. And, and, uh, and so when I, my brother and I graduated high school, went to Liberty university and we both played baseball. So we, I got drafted by the Mets out of high school and I, but I wanted to go to Liberty. Yeah, that’s right.

The flames is the night let’s Liberty flames, but an Eagle is our mascot. I still never have quite understood that. I didn’t either. I asked my wife

08:20 Chris Grainger
cause she went there and her sister went there and I’m like, what’s up with the Eagle? I

08:23 David Benham
thought y’all the flames, you know? Yeah. We don’t know. We don’t have a clue.

We’re conflicted, but listen, the flame can identify as an Eagle. Eagles can identify as a flame and don’t you judge us at Liberty. We’ll be whatever we want. That’s right. That’s right. That Eagle can be a boy or girl, whatever who you, Chris? No, I’m only teasing. So then I’m out of Liberty. I got drafted by the red Sox.

Jason was drafted by a lesser organization, the Orioles. And so now we went on and played pro baseball for several seasons in the minor leagues. I ended up a year and a half band got traded to the St. Louis Cardinals. So I was in a major league trade. It was great for my career. And they put me on the big league roster to start the season in, uh, or to start spring training.

And, uh, let’s see, was that spring training of 2000, 2000 and 2001, I was on, I was in major league camp with Albert poo Holsten, Mike Mathenia and all those guys Mark McGuire in the first year I was there. And that was really fun. I thought it was great. And, um, you know, I knew that my dad would always tell me and I, I would see in scripture that a man’s gift will make his way.

And when God gives you a talent or when God gives you an ability or maybe a personality or, or some sort of skillset or some sort of ability, you’re the one that has to develop it into skills, right? God will give you talent, but you’ve got to turn that talent into a skill. So I saw that in baseball, but you know, to be honest, my brother and I, we were never big league guys.

You know, we were never like the superstars. We were never those, those guys. And so we get out of baseball and. We ended up relocating our young families to the Charlotte North Carolina area. And, and, uh, I didn’t have any business training. I, Jason didn’t either. All we knew was the principles of the word of God.

And we started our first company just based on biblical principles and, and Chris, it was just an amazing thing that by, you know, 2010. So when I were six years, seven years into business and we had a hundred offices in 35 states and it began to just grow like crazy. And that’s when HGTV came to us. TLC actually came to us first because we’re identical twins.

We’re both married. We live on the same street. I have five kids. He has four kids. So TLC made us an offer for a reality show. And while we were negotiating with TLC, HGTV made us an offer. They had just signed chip and Joanna Gaines to the show called fixer upper great family. They hadn’t even piloted their show.

So they told me and Jason, they said, listen, we’ll take your family. We’ll call the show, flip it forward. We’ll take the gains. We’ll call the show, fixer upper. And we’ll take these two new shows to the top of our network. And this was super exciting. It was like, wow, I can’t believe Lord’s going to give it.

And I told them, I said, do you know who our dad is? He’s like a very outspoken pro-life, uh, minister. And they’re like, oh yeah, we know we’ve done all our background check and all that other stuff. And we know who you guys are. And I said, so you guys aren’t afraid will get canceled or anything. They’re like, no, don’t worry about it.

They said a lot of us believe like you, we just don’t talk about it about that. You know, Chris, why they don’t talk about it because many of our pastors don’t talk about it. Many of our so-called leaders that are supposed to be shepherds. And what does a shepherd do? It identifies a Wolf beats wolves.

Protects the flock. Right? We don’t talk about it. We won’t talk about abortion. We won’t talk about marriage. We won’t talk about sexuality or gender or some of these things that God designed, right. That are actually godly, moral, spiritual things that now the devil somehow has taken it and it’s become quote, I’m doing scare quotes for those of you listening political, right?

We don’t talk politics. That’s nonsense. That’s nonsense. I thank God for the lion within, because the lion within is the lion of the tribe of Judah, whose name is Jesus. And he does not bow. He does not equivocate. He does not allow the devil to define what we can and can’t talk about. So HGTV said, yeah, we just, we don’t, we, we believe like you guys, we just don’t talk about it.

So that was great. We were with them for 18 months and now all of a sudden, our show was now we were five weeks into a 10 week film shoot. They’re running commercials. And we’re just about to air in the fall of 2014, they had already entered. Pilot for fixer upper. It did great. Now all of a sudden here comes our show, flip it forward, and that’s when all the activist groups, Chris circled the wagons, remember spiritual battle, not a fleshly battle.

It’s a spiritual battle, but the spiritual battle manifests itself in the flesh. And it’s manifesting itself with a lot of these activist groups in our country today, that demand that you get on board with their radical ungodly antichrist agenda. Anti-family, anti-capitalism, you know, anti flourishing agenda.

And if you don’t get on board with that agenda, then you’re a hater. You’re a bigot you’re intolerant. So they circled the wagons. They went after HGTV, they did what we call a hostile social media takeover. They then start just pounding their Facebook, their Twitter, their Instagram, everything, and HGTV felt like the sky was falling and they called us.

And literally the general manager was crying. She said, we have to stop. We have to cancel the show. We’re so sorry. And we told them, we love them. We thank them for the opportunity, but this was a spiritual battle. And we did not plan on going down without a fight. And so the last eight years, Jason and I have now been traveling the country, we’ve written seven, six books, and just really trying to mobilize Christians to stand strong for their faith, whatever the cost and the book that connected you and me was actually the second book we wrote, the first book we wrote was whatever the call and that book outlines our whole HGTV story.

But the second book is really our treaties to men, to men in the church. Uh, it’s for women as well, but specifically our call is to the men to stand in our place of responsibility. And it’s called living among lions, how to thrive like Daniel in today’s Babylon. And what we found is that the same foul spirits that exist today that are bullying us into silence, bullying us to bow, to the radical agendas, to.

That want to silence the church that want to take over all of government and media and Hollywood and everything. They’ve already taken much of our universities and you know, all of these other things. And so, uh, in those same Souths, foul spirits are alive today that were alive in Daniel’s time. They’re just, they’re ancient, right?

They’re they’re, they’re going to be judged one day, but they’re still alive. And so this demonic battle of, of Daniel’s time where Daniel lived among the lions, and this is what’s really cool. I think with your podcast, the line within and Daniel living among the lions, it’s like the lions in our book, we’re talking about the, the devil.

It says he prowls around like a roaring lion. It says like the devil and a roaring lion, there’s only one. He is the line of the tribe of Judah. He is the lion within us, right? That’s why it says greater is he that’s in us. In other words, greater as the lion that’s within than the lion than the one that acts like a lion without.

So when Daniel’s in the lion’s den, literally cause he stood against the state and Chris, I want your man to know we are going to have to stand against the state. They’re coming in to take parental rights away. They’re coming after our kids. Um, even just on the media side of things with Disney been. So open-minded, their brains have fallen out.

They’re targeting our kids through entertainment, but it won’t just stop with entertainment. It’s education, it’s indoctrination. And eventually the state will try to come and get our kids because we are Christians. We have to allow the lion within us to stand against and roar at that foul spirit that browse like a roaring line.

And that’s what happened with Daniel. Daniel was in the lion’s den. He stood against the. Right now he’s thrown into the lion’s den. And we know they were managers because when Daniel was taken out, the men that were actually accusing him, got thrown in and they were devoured before they even hit the ground.

Right? So there were men eating lions, but you can’t a man eating lion cannot touch a man who has the lion within a greater lion was inside of Daniel. That’s why those lions don’t touch him because they submitted to him. Right. And that’s where we can walk in that type of power in that type of authority.

It’s a, it’s a powerful thing. So my brother and I just to wrap that story and I’ll get into maybe one of your first questions or whatever, but to wrap that story. So now we travel, we launched a coaching business called expert ownership. We help, we help faith-filled entrepreneurs, uh, integrator freedom and success so that we can bring impact to our cities.

Once again, you know, it’s one thing to sit there and defend Christian faith. It’s another thing to do. Yeah, so we want to help you demonstrate what it looks like to be a faith filled Christian in the marketplace and also defend it in culture as well. So that’s what Jason and I do right now,

17:33 Chris Grainger
man. That is an amazing story, David.

I mean, just thank you so much for not backing down, but there’s a lot that we need to probably unpack through that, for sure. Maybe let’s go back to your major league part. You’re a Christian at that point. So I can’t, and I don’t know, maybe speak to the culture for, from a major league clubhouse standpoint, you know, what does that look like for a Christian and these just stand strong against the culture.

And it was specifically that major league culture,

18:00 David Benham
you know, not to be too cheeseball, but it, it ties in directly with Daniel because when Daniel and his three buddies, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, it says they were of Royal. Like, like they had Royal blood, like they were very skilled, very good. They were masters, which is why Navy could not.

And his court brought these guys in and they said, we want you to be part of our court. In other words, they were the all-stars. They were the bad boys. Right. And now they’re in Babylon, but they made up their minds. They would not let Babylon in them. Remember Daniel chapter one, it says Daniel refused to defile himself with the King’s meat.

That wasn’t all just because he didn’t want to eat meat. That’s right. That’s right. It wasn’t because he was some freak show vegan or vegetarian or whatever. I mean, yeah, if that’s you great, but I eat grass fed. I eat vegetarians. Like I eat cows because they eat vegetables or whatever they eat grass.

Okay. So anyway, but Daniel, he refused what it was, was he refused to allow the pagan culture and the food that had been sacrificed to pagan idols into his body. Right. Same thing with my brother and I, when we were in the pros by God’s grace, there wasn’t adultery. There wasn’t scandal. There wasn’t any of that because we had made up our minds.

Right. We refused, we were in major league baseball, but we were not going to be of major baseball. Right. So when we would leave away and go on road trips, I would see guys hugging and kissing their wives and kids goodbye. And next thing you know, we’re at a hotel and there’s groupies and, and I had many opportunity.

2:00 AM, 3:00 AM my door’s the one getting knocked. That guy is the one crying cause his wife’s leaving him, you know, and had a great opportunity to minister. So think about this, Chris, if you take a, a water hose, you’ve got a water hose, you’ve got it all curled up, you know, and it’s circle and you drop it into a mud hole and it sinks.

What’s going to go inside the water hose mud. Right. But what if the one edge of that water hose is tied to a water faucet and all of a sudden you turn the water on. Can the mud get inside? Yeah, no, that’s what we have to do. We have to be faithful in the word. Faithful and worship faithful with the accountability faithful in our local communities.

Right? That’s the key. And you’ve got to get that going out and faithful on mission. Now, you know, you’re serving these guys, right? And when, when everybody else is not around, it’s like you have to remember your identity. The devil wants you to forget your identity at that moment. It’s 1:00 AM. Game’s over, you know, whether it’s a groupie or whether it’s the internet or your cell phone or whatever, all of a sudden, you’re a man with a need, right?

That’s how the devil wants you to identify yourself. The God wants you to identify. I’m a child of the king. I’m a husband, I’m a father. I’m a warrior. I am one who stands a defense truth. All of a sudden you speak like that to yourself. When you as a man begin to speak like that to yourself, that’s the water flowing through the water hose, money creeping in.

Right? I don’t do that to my wife. I don’t do that to my. Now we’re all men with clay feet, right? I’m not sitting here trying to posture myself better than anyone else. I’m just saying, I’m speaking to myself like king baby, like speak to yourself, right. And get that water flowing. And that mud won’t creep in there.

21:28 Chris Grainger
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I mean, I can only imagine me, the devil’s going to use the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. I can only imagine that at that level, when you have that type of notoriety, you know, those guys, if you’re not armed up, you know, those 2:00 AM, you know,

22:27 David Benham
you’re just not prepared for that battle.

That’s right. Yeah. And you know, you look at king David’s life. He’s like the most epic adulterer in the Bible. And he also killed a man to cover it up, which is wow. And yet he was a man after God’s own heart because he was a big center, but he was a big repenter. So I want to leave a little space for those that have sin.

We all have sin, but for those that have been caught in adultery, or for those that have lost their marriages or whatever, listen, there’s forgiveness. There’s still hope there’s still listen. G the Lord can forgive king David. He can forgive you. He can forgive me. Right. The key is. Uh, w David fell. The reason David fell.

It says in second Samuel, when it talks about his falling, he says in the spring, when Kings go to war, David stayed home. And when he arose from his bed in the middle of the day, he walked around on his roof chamber. In other words, he was sleeping. He was out of the fight. He was getting lazy. He had lost his discipline, right?

He’s out of the battle. You gotta be in the battle once you’re out of the battle and you, you lose your fight and you lose your discipline, man. You’ll, you’ll go down. That’s why you have to stay plugged in to a good Christian community. That’s keeping you in the fight. And that pressure is important.

You’ve got to have it because that’s the pressure that keeps water running through the water hose. So the mud can stay out. You know, w w when

23:48 Chris Grainger
I’m thinking too, you know what, at that level, you’re traveling a lot. And it w we’ve got a lot of guys that listened to, I mean, they’re traveling, they’re traveling for work and things.

Sometimes it can be hard to be plugged into the, to your church community, particularly, maybe during the week, you know, it’s a little bit easier on Sunday, you know, to, to go to a church, but during the week there’s a lot of opportunities. So how did you manage that? I mean, how did you plug in and stay connected to, to a body or, or, or

24:15 David Benham
how did that work for you?

I, if for many years I didn’t even have a local church cause I was always playing on Sunday was unfortunate, but you have to be very intentional. We call, I call them anchor activities. Uh, you just got to build in anchor activities into your life, which means I will connect with one man that can speak directly into my life.

And you got to ask yourself, is there any man that can tell, you know, in your life, any man that can say no, right? You got to ask yourself because a lot of men, we don’t have anybody like that. You can do whatever you want. Right now. Yeah. Now I’m not saying, tell, you know, over how you lead your home or whatever, like that’s you, but you still need accountability there, but I’m saying any man that can tell, you know, like, no, don’t make that decision or no, stop talking to that woman like that.

You’re, you’re talking too much to her. You know what I’m saying? You gotta be able to have that kind of guy, but then, so you need an upstream and a downstream. So you need someone pouring into you, but you also have to be pouring into someone as well. That’s another anchor activity where you’re communicating to that next generation.

So, you know, there’s someone leaning on you, right? We need to be, uh, we need to be held accountable in that regard. So the anchor activities of connecting with other men, both the upstream and the downstream are, are super important. Um, but Bible reading, we’ve been on a Bible reading schedule since we were kids and staying in the word of God, staying in, not just reading it, but studying.

Right. Yes. Right. Faithful Bible study. Um, also, you know, spending time and listening prayer, um, that’s really important. You know, we, uh, spend a lot of time in prayer making our requests and other things to the Lord, but also listening to the Lord journaling. Um, you know, these are just some, these are some building blocks, some anchor activities that when a man has in his life, it’s much more difficult to stumble.

You can still stumble. There’s always an extreme, right. But it makes it a lot more difficult. That’s great. And, and one

thing,

26:15 Chris Grainger
David, when you said about, you know, find that guys that can say, no, I recently wrote a blog. It’s out there, it’s on the website right now with guys. You want to check it out. I called her the three, three ways to build that strong man’s group.

And I actually called it a find your Paul, find your Barnabas, find your Timothy,

26:31 David Benham
right.

26:32 Chris Grainger
And if you find those three guys in your life and you know, they gotta be able to speak truth, like you said, we don’t need any more. Yes. Men in our life. We need guys that can actually speak truth and be that iron, that sharpens.

Uh, and then the Timothy is so finding that Timothy is important too, because you have to be up at that point, pour into someone else. I think we, we missed that too

26:50 David Benham
often, man. That’s exactly right. We need to build that into our anchor activities and those anchor activities. If you think about an anchor, it doesn’t let you drift off course.

Now you may drift a little, I mean, obviously nobody’s perfect, but it really anchors you from drifting off course and becoming shipwrecked. And Paul talks about shipwrecking your faith, right? You have anchor activities in place. You won’t ship wreck. Right,

27:14 Chris Grainger
man. That’s that’s great. Uh, David, you talked about HGTV and you know what happened there.

So that was, I’m kind of going off the timeline that’s back before the whole cancel culture was really a big, big, big, thanks. So you may be, you may be like the founder of counter

27:30 David Benham
culture, right. Were canceled culture. Oh, geez man. That’s it. That’s right.

27:35 Chris Grainger
You define it, man. And I think so many men. Are scared.

I mean, they’re scared to speak up in so many ways because of that fact, I mean, they don’t want to be canceled. They don’t want to be singled out. They don’t want to be defined or whatever. It may be. So speak to the God. That’s scared to stand up and take that stand because you know, they don’t want to be quote, unquote canceled.

27:53 David Benham
We were too, man. I mean, we didn’t want to lose the show. We didn’t want to get ridiculed and criticized by everybody and made out to be haters and bigots. And my brother and I even crafted an email that basically said HGTV, here’s our beliefs. And we’re never going to back away from them. But when we represent your network in public, we’ll be quiet about it.

Like we never sent that email. Thank God, but we crafted it because we were scared. And then all of a sudden we sent it to a spiritual mentor of ours who rebuked our butts. I mean, he, we thought he would say, yes, this is a great email. Send it. But he said, no, don’t send it, delete it. And repent. He said, you’re fearing, man.

You’re not fearing God. How do you know that God didn’t raise you and your brother up for such a time as this to tear down a stronghold, that’s killing. We’re like, wow, that doesn’t sound like very, that doesn’t sound very Christ-like bro now, but that was Christ. Like it’s exactly what we needed to hear.

And so Jason and I, um, we repented of that and we realized that when God gives you something, you’ve got to hold it with an open hand. It may be a job. It may be reputation. It may be something you got to hold it with an open hand and you can’t clench it and hold on to it because if God wants to remove it, he’ll have to pry your fingers back.

And so Jason and I found that when we stare at the thing that God has put in our hand, and quite often for men, it’s a job, right? Well maybe our personnel, or maybe, maybe our reputation. So let’s just say your name and your riches are directly tied to people, liking you and accepting you. Um, when that happens, uh, it’s like you have this in your hand and now all of a sudden you’re gripping it and you become.

Controlled by that thing, you won’t let go of becomes an idol in your life. And sometimes it’s a really good thing. God wants you to have that job. He wants you to have a good name and all these things, but at the expense of sacrificing your values at the expense of sacrificing your soul, what does it profit a man if he forfeits his soul, right?

So I know none of us want to be canceled. I didn’t want to be canceled. I don’t want you to lose your job. I don’t want to lose business. None of us want to, but there comes a time where mark chapter eight, Jesus, his words. If anyone wants to be my disciple, he must deny himself, pick up his cross and follow me.

He who loses his life for my sake will find it. But he who saves his life will surely lose it. It’s like there comes a time where we have to lose something and we’ve never honestly, Chris, you meet most, all of us in America, American Cristiana. We haven’t sacrificed anything for our faith, nothing, zero.

And, and think about all of us guys at the marriage, supper of the lamb sitting around the table, David tells his story. Then Gideon tells his story. Then Joseph tells his story and Paul tells his story. Now, all of a sudden it gets around to Chris. Right. And let’s just say, and I’m going to make fun of you for a minute.

Let’s just say, you’re like, well, I got made fun of on this thing called Instagram. They’re like, what? What’s Instagram, you know? So did they cut your head off? Did they burn you alive at the stake? You’re like, well, no, they just made fun of me and you’re like, eh, they’d be like, okay. So what did you do? How did you stand?

And you’re like, well, I didn’t, I quit. Yeah. I, I, I got real quiet. Can you imagine that now nobody’s looking at you like dead silent, right? Obviously I’m trivializing the marriage, supper of the lamb, but you get, what I’m trying to say is that the men of God that have gone before us are powerful, mighty, strong, And yet in Hebrews 11, we read all about their exploits.

And then it says at the end of Hebrews 11, yet none of them, none of those great men and women received what was promised that only together with us that’s David and Chris, that’s you right now, listener only together with you. Would they be made complete? So let’s, let’s run our leg of this race. How about that?

That’s the key. We got to run our leg of this race and let that lion within run. Man, let him run, stop trying to pet the freaking line and braid his mane. You know, sometimes in these church services, it’s like, God, another song now I’m making out with Jesus again. I’m like, man, somebody sing about the majesty and the might of God, you know, that’s when men will get their hands up, our wives are like, why aren’t you worshiping?

It’s like, I don’t know. I just, I can’t just sit in his lap anymore.

32:20 Chris Grainger
Yeah, bro, you are all, let’s take a quick break and then let’s jump right back into that man. Cause that’s something I want to do

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David, you just dropped the hammer and it’s a hammer and I’ve been dropping on a lot of episodes trying, but I haven’t really had a lot of guys lean into it the way you did, because. Jesus has not my boyfriend. He’s not pat me on my butt when I fall down and kissing my booboos. But that’s what we do, man.

We put them in this box and the church culture, and we sing these songs about all this stuff and it’s just, it’s totally missing the point. And I think it’s driving guys away, man. So what can we do from a church standpoint?

34:06 David Benham
Here’s what here’s, what’s so important for us to understand when someone is sick, they need a doctor, right?

When someone is captive, they need a warrior. And right now our nation, the next generation, our families are being held captive. We’re looking at media, we’re looking at Hollywood, we’re looking at our school systems. We’re looking at what’s happening in culture. And we are being held captive by an antichrist anti-God anti-family antifreeze agenda.

And we have to let the lion roar. So when people are sick, yes, we need the therapeutic side of God. He is our wonderful counselor. Thank you. For our wonderful counselor. But when you are made whole, you are to be made whole, so you can fight right by God’s battle occupy to win God’s war because God occupies through his church.

So this is the thing, it’s two sides of Jesus. It’s the Jesus that was so compassionate to that woman caught in adultery. He says, where are those two accuse you? She says, there are none. He said, neither do I accuse you. I don’t condemn you right now. We stop right there. And today’s Franken church, you know, today’s seeker friendly.

Attractional church, the big brand church, big box church. We stop right there. See everybody throw your stones down. Okay. That’s great. But you forgot what else? He said. He looked her right in the eyes and said, go and sin no more. What if that woman got up and went right back into that adulterous relationship?

Right? Do you see what I’m saying? I’m standing against God’s best against the very best she standing against the standard that Jesus said, don’t send no

35:52 Chris Grainger
more.

35:52 David Benham
Don’t do that. That’s not, you’re not going to flourish there, but we don’t talk about that in big box church. Right? We only talk about the compassion of Christ, but not the courage of Christ.

So what we do is we say Jesus came to bring life. Yes, that is true. But flip the coin over, right? There’s always two sides of one coin. You ever seen a one-sided pancake, right? It’s the two sides of one point. Jesus also said for this reason, I came to testify to the truth. So Jesus also says in first, John, for this reason, Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, right?

Roland says the God of peace will soon crush Satan under his feet. We love the God of peace, peace, hippie Jesus, Jesus, you know, full of grace, Jesus, but we don’t talk about the second side of that. The God of peace will soon. Crush Satan under his feet. And is Satan alive? Yes. Is Satan taking fortresses today and building fortresses over gender today, override sexual identity today over the hearts and minds of the, of our children today, filling them with anxiety, depression, suicide is at an all time high.

Why? Because the men and women of God are not living in demonstrating the kingdom of God. And we’re not willing to die. I will tell you this. My dad never had a mega church. He doesn’t have a brand. He barely knows how to operate his iPhone. Right. But my dad sets men’s hearts on fire. He goes into churches.

He goes into groups where my brother and I gather 50 to a hundred men. And they’re in a dry eye in the place. He brings the heat, but nobody knows him. My dad doesn’t give a rat’s behind about a brand or his image or how much money he makes. He’s bringing the kingdom. Now it’s that kind of man that cannot you.

Right. It’s that kind of man, that, you know what, take the dude that standing on stage with his spray, tan, his shirts hap on button, down, past his nipples and he sitting up there. He’s so cool. He’s got his book. He’s got $800 in his shoes and 10 grand on his wrist. And yet home slice has no clue how to expose it.

The word of God I’m telling you, this is God is going to bust this thing up. You can already see, I’m getting ticked off, just talking about it, but God is busting this thing up. And these so-called shepherds, they’re not shepherds. They’re CEOs, they’re entrepreneurs. They’re making sport of the gospel to make money and expand their own brand.

Right. And so God is busting this thing up and he’s getting us back to the old way, which is where are those who are humbled before an all mighty God? Where are those who preach the entire counsel of God? They don’t carve out little politically incorrect parts of scripture and run from it, right? That’s what I think God is doing because the Lord tells us, you will know them by their fruit.

You didn’t say you will know them by their impact. All of a sudden, now this, this spiritual leaders like, look at what we’re doing in our city. We’re doing this, we’re giving millions away. We’re doing it. It’s like, okay, great, great, great. You’re giving me your impact. And a lot of those things are really good stuff, but let’s look at the fruit of your life.

Are you humble? Right. Kind. Are you speaking the truth? Do you have self control, right? Are you loving your wife as well? Is she flourishing? So this is something where I think the Lord is really, and it challenges me as a man and I hope that it challenged all his challenges, all of us as a. Not to just sit underneath this limp, wristed, CEO, life, coach nonsense.

We don’t need that kind of, we don’t need that therapeutic message anymore. We need the whole counsel of God. He is our counselor. So he does give us some therapy, but it’s for the purpose of battle, right?

39:43 Chris Grainger
Because I mean, ultimately Jesus is not a life coach and the gospel is offensive. And if you can get those couple pieces to understanding, you’re going to really struggle on being alive and standing up against everything.

Satan, the stone, to your point, those darts, I mean, that was dark and not just dark. There are flaming darts. I mean, this is really serious stuff that’s coming at us and you gotta

40:03 David Benham
be able to stand strong against it. That’s right. You know, we, in our churches, we fish with a lure and not with the light. Like we, Jesus says, I’ll make you fishers of men.

Now the context of that is ancient Jewish fishermen and they used to fish. Where they would in their boats, they would hang long poles off their boats. And at the end of the pole, they’d have a lantern. And as the lantern near the water, what would the fish would come to the top? And then what would they do?

They throw in their neck, right? Like you don’t just go into the water and throw in a net. They would throw in the net as the fish would come to the light. Well, we was somehow in the church. We’ve exchanged that for we’re fishing, with a lure, like with rubber bait. Right. And people are biting it. And next thing you know, they realize they been a fake, all of a sudden, the trials of life and the, the offense of the cross, the persecution of Christianity comes to your life and they spit it out.

They’re like, I don’t want none of this. What is this? Right. Because wait, is, are I supposed to be like having a pixie stick at the end of my bed every morning? Right? Don’t don’t, isn’t, doesn’t the Easter bunny and Santa Claus come visit me and all this. And like, look, I’m all for Easter bunny and Santa Claus.

Like, I, I celebrate that stuff with my kids, but it’s. It’s the power and the centrality of the cross of Jesus Christ. And we exalt him. So when you’re in your church, service, those of you listening to this, listen to the music. Are we exalting Christ? Are we exalting ourselves? Now? There are times where we pray about ourselves.

I mean, we sing about ourselves in context of the light of Christ. That’s great. That’s all good. Right. But we’ve divorced the awesomeness and the power of God and his majesty. And you sing like that. Cut the music out, do some acapella and all of a sudden that’s when people start running to the alter, right.

Because the holy Spirit’s coming now we’re honoring God the way he should be honored. That’s

41:55 Chris Grainger
right. I mean, do you see it, David? Where it’s it’s it’s it’s all, it’s all lamb. I mean, it’s, it’s completely the church just focused on the lamb and it completely is put the lion in the box.

42:07 David Benham
Oh, absolutely. Because the lion can’t be controlled in the line.

Isn’t it? Lion’s get messy, man. Yeah. I mean, think about life. Okay. So you’ve got a newborn, right? Yes, sir. Okay. Congratulations. It’s amazing. Now, when you’re in that room, that hospital room or in your home, wherever your wife’s giving birth, I mean, it ain’t like super clear. I mean, the environment is sterile, but that baby comes out.

There’s all kinds of things happening, right? It was only my first son about a placenta. I had no, I I’m sitting there like trying to wash my feet. My first born with the nurse, I turn around and there is an alien on, uh, on, uh, on this cart. I had no idea what it was and a gag reflex came over me. But I’m saying this to say, when life comes, it’s a mess, but in today’s church, we do not want any mess.

We want, we want everything. Like we take our kids that are supposedly add or hyperactive and we give them Ritalin or we give them drugs to get them down so we can control them. Man. Do you know, the greatest leaders are add in. Yeah, like, come on, man. We just have to be focused in the right way. That’s why you don’t spare the rod with those young boys.

Right. Spank them on the butt and do it in love. But so yeah, that we don’t want the lion for us. Cause the lion’s messy. You can’t tame a line. You can’t control a lion, but I’m telling you when you, when there are captives and you got a group of young lions, you let them loose. That’s right. You know, bring them out and say, go there.

Bad guy. Good guy go. That’s right.

43:46 Chris Grainger
Well, what does it look like from a line standpoint? I’m just, I mean, you’re, you’re dropping the hammer. It’s I’m just going to let you keep dropping it. Before I speak to guys a lot about being a husband and a dad. So, what does that look like to you? What, what would be some parting at some advice you would get for the lions out there that want to be a, you know, what they want to be that line and their marriage as well as, as far as, as a follow to

44:08 David Benham
their kids.

So, so sometimes we can think about the lions and we think about them roaring or devouring, the prayer, whatever. Right? Think about the lion that is ruling the pride. And by ruling the pride, that means he walks around the pride and he protects, right. He also provides, he provides and protect. So provision as a man for our family at your own expense.

Now don’t be cheap. Cheap is being is, is, is cutting costs at others’ expense, but being frugal is cutting costs at your own expense. And a man should be frugal. A man should provide a man should not have so many hobbies and needs. Tech addictions and all these other, you know, boys night addictions where he’s sucking the provision of his family out of the home.

That’s not what a lion does a lion provides, but a lion also protects like when all of these things happen. Like if, if a, if you’ve got a daughter and a young man wants to come and take your daughter out and you know, this guy’s a punk, like he don’t even look me in the eyes, but you have to be willing to protect.

But in the same way, we’ve got school teachers that are teaching our kids that, you know, Johnny has two mommies and that’s just, okay, you got to protect. You have to say, this is wrong. Well, I don’t want the teacher to think I’m mean, or I don’t want them to go, no, it doesn’t matter. You speak, you don’t speak with a bad attitude, but you speak with truth and speak truth to power.

And, and you know, if, if I’m in the mall and some dude comes in. Just walking past my wife and my two daughters. I got two daughters and says something to them or, or, uh, let’s just say, this is someone has the audacity to try to smack my wife on the butter. My, one of my daughters on the face. Like I don’t take that verse, turn the other cheek.

And I’m like, oh, I’m sorry, sir. Would you please, would you hit her on the other cheek? Right? No, I pounce. Right, because I am a protector. Now, all of a sudden it today’s pixie stick church. We’ve been told, well, you have to turn the other cheek. No turning the other cheek in, in, I want to say it’s Luke’s gospel, but you know, it’s in a couple of gospels about turning the other cheek and it says when you are stricken on the right cheek.

Okay. So it was just stop for a second in ancient times to be left-handed was a sign of weakness. So if someone was going to strike you on the right cheek and you swing with your right hand, you’re going to hit me on the left, but you can’t use your left hand. So how are you going to use your right hand and hit me on the.

You’re going to backhand me. The context is shame, public shame. Someone’s backhanding you. Right? You just turn it. You just let them shame you. Oh, you know, they’re calling you names or you get ridiculed or whatever, you just turn the other cheek. Right? Right. Words, your words, ain’t going to affect me. You don’t, you don’t.

But when someone strikes like with violence to hurt, that is a God puts in us a protection mode. Like we are God’s protectors of our family and defenders. Like if you are to love your neighbor as yourself, I don’t want myself to be beaten to death. I protect myself. Right. I also protect my family. So we’ve become so limp wrist in the church, we’re now doormat.

People know they can take advantage of us. So they’re like walking around the mall and jank and purses and stuff. Now, you know, 30 years ago, my dad taught me as a young kid. If you see some do Janka pur. You chase his butt down and you make him pay. Right. That’s what I was taught. And I believe that that’s biblical because that’s what a lion does.

We don’t just sit around. So in terms of like being Alliant, you’re providing and you’re protecting, and then you’re also watching over very closely. Like Nina’s, if you think about the lion king, the hyenas are constantly whooping and nipping at people or creating, having lions we’ll take out the hyenas lions we’ll watch, and I’m telling you right now, Chris, there are hyenas.

And what I mean by that, these are spiritual forces of darkness that have occupied people, university professors, uh, congressmen, senators, presidents, um, Hollywood stars, athletes, where they musician. Um, where they literally are fighting against family. They’re fighting against marriage. They want your daughters to be corrupted.

They want your boys to be hooked on porn. And we have to step look, people directly in the eye. We got to speak right to it and say, no, not in, not in this home, because I love you too much to allow you to lose something, to lose what God has given you in this home. You know what I’m saying? So I think that that’s a, hopefully an encouraging way we can kind of establish lion hood in our lives,

49:07 Chris Grainger
man.

I absolutely love that was the, that was, that was hanging on the rim style though. You were a baseball player. You were hanging on the rim right there. My friend,

49:15 David Benham
that’s a walk off. There you go. As you

49:17 Chris Grainger
walk off, there’s you walk off.

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Well, Dave, I mean, this has been great. I know we’re kind of running up on time for you here, but I got something we do with the line within this. I call it feeding time is where I’m going to fire off. I got eight questions and we’ll hit you real quick. Kind of like a lightning round. If you will, if you’re willing to play, we’ll jump in.

Let’s go. All right, bro. What’s your favorite thing about

50:36 David Benham
God? My favorite thing about God. Um, man, that’s great. I’m glad you didn’t put me on a timer. Um, he’s a loving father in that he speaks the truth to our hearts. He, he, he’s not a, a loving therapist, but a loving father. I love it.

50:55 Chris Grainger
What’s your least favorite thing about

50:57 David Benham
God.

Yeah, a conviction. When I know that God convicts me and he puts his finger on something in my heart and I know I have to go make it right. Especially relationally with like one of my kids or something like that. It really hurts. But I ended up loving it when it’s over. I’m like, oh, but I hate it. You know, it’s like working out in the gym.

I hate it, but I love it.

51:17 Chris Grainger
Exactly. What’s your, what are you current currently struggling with right now?

51:22 David Benham
Um, I’m really getting through the fear of man and a man pleasing spirit, to be honest, I’m in a lot of green rooms. I’m on news shows. I do a lot of things and sometimes I feel like, eh, I just want to kind of back it down a little bit, tone it down, just a touch.

Just I just not, I just don’t want the argument or whatever. Right. And I, I don’t believe God wants me to act like that. I think God wants me to fear him and move forward boldly. Absolutely.

51:47 Chris Grainger
What are you most afraid of?

51:50 David Benham
My children not serving the Lord.

51:53 Chris Grainger
Where do you, what do you spend too much time doing last year?

51:57 David Benham
Uh, eating ice cream, honestly. I, I ha by God’s grace, I have really good anchors in my life. So I spend a lot of time. I, I fill my day with some really good stuff, so I’m thankful for that. Uh, but, but I did, I, I, I started, uh, doing what everybody says is a cheat meal. Well, that cheat meal turns into a cheat week, which turns into a cheat month, which turns into a cheat quarter.

And, and so, um, I started noticing I wasn’t sleeping as good. My joints were bothering me a little bit, you know, I’ll be 47 this year. And, and, um, and so I, I, uh, have this health coach that I was talking to and she said, you know, you’ve got to stop. She consults both my wife and I, and she said, you’ve got to stop saying cheat meal because that, that evokes, like, you’re doing something wrong or secret, you need to say, I am mindfully choosing to go off my plan for just a little bit, but I’m mindfully going to get right back on.

Right. That’s really helped me out a lot, you know? So I spend more time now mindful of. Choosing, where do I want to get off my plan? And then you get immediately right back on it. Not just so I can be all built and all that stuff. Like I don’t probably look half as good as you do, but I want to be the best me I can be.

And I want to think clearly, and I don’t want to have inflammation in my life. And if I die early, I want to die early. Faithful. I don’t want to die early because I was a slug.

53:22 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. W well, what do you wish you would have learned sooner about God?

53:29 David Benham
Um, that a spiritual maturity is the sign of spiritual maturity is how fast you repent.

So when I was a young man, I would do something and a week later I’d get convicted and make it right. Right. And as I began to mature in the faith, I would do something. And two days later I’d get convicted and make it right. And then, you know, early in my marriage I would do something. And then same day I would get convicted.

And then, you know, 10 years ago it was, I would do something. And within the hour. I was convicted and now it’s like, before I do something convicted. Right, right, right, right. So I wish I would’ve known that a little earlier and been like, ah, okay, got it. The, I need to answer, I need to be self aware on what is the gap between sin, repentance and restoration, like with whoever I’ve heard or if I’ve done something that needs restoration, what’s that gap?

How can I shorten that gap and get it to where now the holy Spirit’s on the front of that sin instead of on the back of

54:27 Chris Grainger
it. Okay. But last too, what’s a new habit that you’re going to try to create.

54:34 David Benham
Um, a new habit that I’m creating is, well, I guess it’s kind of held, um, um, I I’m trying to stop eating before or after six because I can wake up or.

Yeah, and that front end discipline helps me get up earlier and I have more time with the Lord, but I also, uh, in spending more time in just quiet meditation with like I put on William and Gusto on, on apple music and listen to the Lord. And, and so, uh, because I read my Bible a lot and I I’ll, I speak a lot, but I need to listen more.

So I’m gonna do that. Very good.

55:10 Chris Grainger
Our last question, what’s one thing that you hope the lions out there that are listening. Remember from this conversation today?

55:17 David Benham
Oh my gosh. Um, okay. Well, I haven’t brought this in, but I’ll bring it in now. You’re the chocolate chip and the cookie dough culture. You mix in, you don’t blend in, you keep your distinct form.

Even when putting an oven. If you take chocolate, if you make chocolate chips and you take butter, flour, sugar, salt, vanilla, and all that stuff, but a egg, you blend it in and you take a bite of the batch. It tastes good, but you don’t really know what you fit. You have. But now when you mix in the chocolate chips and take a bite, you know, when you’ve been into a chocolate chip, you see, they mix in, they don’t blend in.

They keep their form. Even when the heat turns up, you know, you, you put the chocolate chip cookie dough balls on the, on the cookie dish and you put it into the oven, you pull it out, you still see the chocolate chip. That’s what God wants us to be. He doesn’t want us as sheep among sheep. Like imagine taking a big bowl of chocolate chips and putting them in the microwave, heat it up.

They lose their form. They completely lose their form. They still taste good. I’m sure the fellowship is sweet, but they’re not in the batch. Right? The Lord wants you in the marketplace. He wants you powerful and strong. He does not want you to lose your form. And so you keep your form, which means you can be in the world, but not of it.

And you stay in the word of God, you have your fall Barnabas and your Timothy, you know, you’ve got your, or I would say your upstream and your downstream. You’ve got that. The water flowing through the water hose, you’re in the mud, but that money getting into. You’re leading your family. Like you’re the lion of the tribe of Judah you’re providing.

You’re protecting, these are things, man. That’s how you be a chocolate chip. So go out and be a chocolate chip dad gum. It absolutely

56:50 Chris Grainger
love it. Dave, this has been phenomenal. Where, where do you want guys to go to connect with you? We’ll make sure we sync it all up, but anywhere in particular, you

56:57 David Benham
want me to go?

Yeah. Expert ownership.com. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s where me and Jason spend most of our time. That’s where we have, we have a cohort community. We’ve got, you know, a whole bunch of business consulting and stuff in it. And a lot of that stuff is, is there’s a charge for it. But then of course there’s plenty of free stuff.

You can access us with our live streams and our podcasts and other things like that as well. Okay. Well, we’ll make sure all that

57:19 Chris Grainger
stuff sneaked up where you listen to anything else you got David,

57:22 David Benham
that’s it, man. Let’s go strong, man. This has

57:24 Chris Grainger
been, it’s been an absolute blessing. Thank you so much for joining us on the line with Dan.

57:28 David Benham
Thanks, bro.

57:32 Chris Grainger
How awesome was that conversation? I’m going to tell you what. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, he brought so much wisdom and insight right there for us guys. You know, those anchor activities got our memory, gotta have me in your life because the world is going to pull at us as Campolo that as hard. And we need those anchor activities.

And we remember we need to protect and provide, gotta be protecting and providing, overseeing, watching everything and understanding that the only person best response that’s going to be able to protect your family is you, you need to step in, God’s going to give you the wisdom, but here he needs you to act because like David said, you know, if we’re, if you, if you’re in captivity, we need a warrior Gaz.

You heard a message right there. You know what you need to do. David wrote it out for us. Tons of wisdom, tons of insight from. So guys, I pray that that message encourages you, that it gets you pumped up. You should be ready to just run through a wall right now. Seriously. So get those anchor activities, get in the word, get in prayer, ban those men that are going to hold you accountable.

Banned. You’re Paul you’re vulnerable. You’re Timothy. Like I talked about, you know, get that, take this seriously, guys. Okay. You gotta take it serious. So I pray. This helps you remember question a week. What does the enemy look like in today’s culture? Does it look like? Cause it’s different for everybody, but guys do not miss this.

There is an enemy and he is going to attack or you going to be ready now, guys, if you got a lot out of this message, go share with somebody seriously is this type of conversation with David that we need to get out in front of. Don’t just keep it in your pocket. You know, they tried to cancel them 2014, try to cancel them.

You can’t cancel what guy wants to when he wants to move, can’t do it. So gas shared us out with somebody go to the line with an data’s joined the lion’s den. This is a great example, why you need to be a part of a community. So hook up with us, be a part of the lion’s den, where we’re finding opportunities to serve you guys all the time.

So go ahead and beat me and make that commitment right now. It’s free. There’s nothing, nothing involved. Just go in and sign up, put your email in, maybe be part of the group. Check out the Bible study you want to get into God’s word more like David’s talking about. You need to be studying the word and not just reading, but studying to jump on our Bible study, go check that out and resources.

There are all sorts of ways that we’re trying to help you grow as Christian leaders. Guys give us a rating and review. I know it sounds like. That stuff makes a big difference. One or two sentences, all the difference in the world. So again, I pray your, your fine and value at align within us. Thank you.

There are so many different podcasts. You can listen to. Definitely a lot better hosts out there to me, but guys, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I pray you have a great day, a great week. Come back for on our fun Friday. We’re gonna wrap it up and I’ll give you some tips and remember go out, unleash the lion within.