In this episode:
Do you have a yearning, burning and churning inside?
That could be the Holy Spirit wanting you to take action! In this hard hitting conversation Dale Partridge, who is the President of Relearn.org and Reformation Seminary, unpacks his masterful book The Manliness of Christ.
If you believe wrong, you'll never live strong. Click To TweetDale Partridge
Welcome to the Line Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders they’re pre-destined to be. I’m your host, Chris Grainger. Let’s jump in. All right guys. It’s your meet episode of the week. But you know, before we get going, we’re gonna dig into our scripture. So this week, or it is all about Matthew 28 18 through 20.
Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of All Nation. Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Now, surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.
Now, if you missed a spiritual kickoff, go back and check it out. We had a really dug, dug deep into this, to the scripture. Gave you guys some, some understanding from, from, from my position, at least for, for what I learned from it, and hopefully that helps you in your. Now today this for this episode, we’re gonna be digging really deep in the manliness of Christ.
And guys, we brought in a wonderful, uh, guest. His name is Dale Partridge. He’s a president of relearn.org and Reformation Seminary. He’s conducted his graduate studies at the Master Seminary and Grace Bible Theological Seminary. He’s the author of several really wonderful books and he hosts a Real Christianity podcast.
Highly encourage you guys to check that out. And he’s a lead pastor at Reformation Fellowship out in Arizona where he lives. So guys, it’s a powerful conversation. He really shares a tremendous amount of truth. It gets raw, it gets real. So I’m not gonna hold you back any longer. Let’s get into it.
Dale Par is welcome to the Line Within Us. How you doing today, my friend? Hey
01:39 Dale Partridge
brother. I’m excited to be here. I am
01:41 Chris Grainger
so excited to have you here. I’ve been been pumping this episode up. The guys are excited to hear it, so let’s get in. And, you know, they, they, they heard me do an introduction, but that’s just Chris saying words, Man.
Why don’t you tell the guys a little bit about who you are and, and how you’re unleashed the line within, within your, within your own, uh,
01:56 Dale Partridge
day to day. Yeah. So, um, a little bit of background in my story. Um, I was in the business world before I was in ministry. A lot of people go the other way, right? Where they’re mm-hmm , they’re in ministry, they get burn out and they go into the business world.
But the Lord had a different plan for me and, uh, brought me out of the business world, uh, and in into ministry. And, and when I was in the business world, I was way in. I was running large, uh, multimillion dollar companies and, uh, had sold a few of them. And, uh, really. My wife and I, I remember hearing a quote, someone said, Don’t you get to the top?
You realize there’s nothing there. Mm-hmm. . And it was this reality of, of feeling that, uh, Wow. There, there’s, I’ve hustled, I’ve worked, we’ve, we’ve earned this money. We’ve, we’ve, we’ve got some, um, some wealth built up. We, we’ve got some, um, notoriety. I, we were featured on several. You know, covers of magazines on the cover of Entrepreneur Magazine and Fortune and Forbes and all, all the different magazines.
And we, we had that business notoriety and, and, and it was just empty. And, and at this point, my faith was in its infancy. Uh, you know, I, I was like most people in the American church, it’s, you get saved and you kind of stay in the kitty pool for, you know, 10, 15 years. Um, the Lord called me out of that world and it was obvious that he was calling me in a ministry.
It. What I call an, uh, a yearning, burning, and churning it, that that is the way that you tell if the Lord is moving you into a ministry. There will be a yearning, churning, and burning, uh, for the gospel, for the lost, for doctrine and, and theology, and that was happening. And, uh, I decided to go to seminary in 2000, um, January, 2017.
Mm-hmm. . Um, and I, I’m still wrapping up some, some stuff in seminary after five years. And, uh, I’ve been enrolled every single semester. So seminary is not short for some people and it’s short for, for others, but I took a longer track. Right. Uh, hoping that one day I’ll actually end up with my doctorate, but, But seminary, I went to Western Seminary and then I went to the Master Seminary down in Southern California with John MacArthur.
Then I went over to Grace Bible Theological Seminary, where I’m at now. And it’s been an incredible journey, wonderful experience to learn theology. Uh, one thing I learned quickly was that, um, that, that the deeper your theology is, the higher your doxology is, meaning that the deeper you know Christ, the higher your praise and worship will become.
And so that’s been a wonderful thing, uh, not just for. Uh, for my own walk, but also for my family. Been married for, uh, going on 13 years. Um, we got three kids and, uh, uh, see almost, uh, almost nine, uh, six and five. And so, uh, great, great season of life right now, enjoying it and living here in Arizona.
04:56 Chris Grainger
It sounds like you have a lot going on there for sure, and definitely be praying ness for you and your family. For you to finish up the ministry work as you’re well, the seminary work that you’re doing. And, uh, I’m excited today cuz we’re gonna be really digging in deep into the Manness of Christ. That book, the book you wrote, That’s gonna be the book of the week.
Guys know. There, there’s a, a quote here, Dale, that I really wanted to pull out. Cause when I read I was like, I think the line within can appreciate this quote. And, and, and it talks about, you know, masculinity head on and it says The world is hell, Ben on distorting, perverting and redefining any biblical comprehension of gender whatsoever.
To think that this won’t pervert our generation’s view of man, of maleness, of Jesus as plain naive. So I, I’d love for you just to unpack that further for our listeners and try kind of give them some context of where you’re
05:44 Dale Partridge
going there. Yeah. So I wrote this book, The Manliness of Christ. Uh, it was really coming off the heels of the sense of an effeminate local church that the, the Western Church had been.
More and becoming more and more feminine in its expression. Mm-hmm. , uh, there were, uh, you know, for example, even the men’s groups were just repurposed women’s groups. Um, and we, we didn’t even realize how a feminine, uh, or feminine our. Uh, our men’s programs were, I mean, even just the church itself, the songs we sing, the way we sing, the high whiny pitched tenor type stuff, it’s not designed for men.
It’s like Chris Tomlin, man, we all can’t seem like sing like you brother. And so there’s just this, and even the lyrics and, uh, the kind of. You know, dark, uh, fog machine kind of concert lit experience. Uh, the, the type of preaching, the type of, uh, you know, share your heart with one another. Let’s do life together.
You know, let go and let God, these, these very weird evangelical statements that we’ve all been around and we don’t even realize that they are very feminine. Um, and I started recognizing that, that, uh, there was a lack of a masculine comprehension of Christ. I, I’ve read through the New Testament maybe 15 times, and I was often seeing this masculine nature of Christ.
I had to write a paper for a thesis paper for, uh, a Christology class. It was one of my last classes. Uh, at seminary and I, I chose this topic on the masculinity of Jesus. Mm-hmm. . And there was a book that recently came out called Gentle and Lowly by a gentleman named Dan Orland. And the book is not heretical, it’s not inaccurate, but it highlights the gentle and lowly Jesus of scripture.
And while that is a true. Expression of Christ. It’s one sided. And to be honest, in the American church, it’s the only side. We get this kind of submissive, passive, you know, Um, you know, just love your neighbor and just be tolerant of everything that’s going around you and. Don’t be intense and don’t be harsh and don’t be bold and don’t, you know, and just kind of let the culture do what it’s gonna do.
Mm-hmm. and just pray for them. And there’s no aggression, there’s no pushback. There’s no boldness. And so I was looking at Christ Christologically through the New Testament and I thought it’s time that we really examine and highlight the masculine attributes of Christ. Because we need both sides. We need the gentle and lowly, and we also need the, the masculinity of Jesus.
We need that strong. Uh, fearlessness, intensity, um, uh, of Jesus Christ. And so I, I wrote this book really with the intention of doing. . And so it’s short. I wrote it for men. I mean, it could be read in an hour. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so it, you know, that, that’s, that’s a wonderful thing. It’s a short little book. I think it’s like 80 pages long, and I meant it to be punchy, direct, uh, abrupt blunt, Um, really just taking out those elements of Christ in his ministry.
And so, uh, yeah, when I, when I say lines like that, you know, we have this idea. , Jesus is this softhearted, um, you know, the Roman Catholic paintings where Jesus looks like he’s wearing blush and his eyebrows are tweezed and he’s just this soft spoken, you know, man who just wants to weep with you and let’s just go, pray and cry together.
And, and, um, and so. Because of this, Christianity has become very female dominant. Mm-hmm. , I mean, the reason that we have what we have today is because men are catering to the women and the women are motivating the men. And there’s just, there’s just a weird switch that’s happened over the last maybe hundred years from the Christianity of maybe say the 18 hundreds and back.
And so, um, yeah, it was just time to write a book on, on the discussion. I mean, the back of the. I wrote, Jesus was the most masculine man to walk the earth. In fact, if you hate masculinity, you will hate the biblical Jesus. And so we have this kind of, again, this emotionalism, this, uh, pageantry, this uh, this kind of sway your hips to Jesus feel that just needs to go.
And when you get back to that rugged, rough, uh, biblical Christianity, I’m gonna say one more thing before I stop here. If you win the men, you win the women. . Okay. If you win the women, you don’t get the men. Mm-hmm. . And so there is statistics that actually show this, I don’t know them off the top of my head, but it’s something around, if you get the wife, then you might get, you know, to getting the, the, the husband and the children is maybe like 15%.
Mm-hmm. . But if you get the husband, it’s an 80% chance that you’re getting the wife and the kids to come, uh, to be a part of the covenant community of the church. And so it’s just an amazing thing. And so we need to. Get back to masculine Christianity because when you get the men, you get the family. Uh, but, but men love alpha males.
Um mm-hmm. , You know, the reason that there’s lots of godly men at John MacArthur’s church is because he’s an alpha male. The same thing with Doug Wilson. Uh, you know, the same thing with Paul Washer and Vodi Baum. I mean, these men are alpha males and they attract men. And because they attract men, they attract women, they have order.
Families in their, in their churches. They have bold, uh, individuals who are, are fearless in the culture that, that, you know, call out sin where sin needs to be called out. So mm-hmm. , it’s just a, a bigger picture, but yes, we need to get back to the masculinity of Christ. You got
11:44 Chris Grainger
that right? And, and that’s what the line with this is all about.
You, you know, Dales, we, we built that this out. You know, all I heard for, for so long and all you still hear I love so much talk about is the lamb of. And we, we never talk about the lion of Judah. And I’m like, Come on guys. Like, yeah. I get he’s, he’s fully land, but he’s also fully lying. And so, so much of your message resonates with me to the core, and I know it resonates with our, with our audience and, and, and the guys listening and part of the lions, Dan, because it’s missing, man.
I mean, it is really missing and, and to the point like, I can I page 40 of your book, the last quote, I’m gonna pull out a promise today. I, I thought like I could pull out so many quotes, but this is one that really just jumped out because this speaks to what you were just talking about. You know, we trade, we traded to fire and brainstorm, preaching early 20th century for the soft encouraging Ted talk style info, entertainers, and I highlighted that word info entertainers of.
And we move from those classic hands about doctrine, sacrificing pity to emotional love songs where people swear it hits to Jesus, lover of my soul. And when I think through worship the way it is now, Dale, it’s, it is like that. It’s like we’re seeing like Jesus, our is our boyfriend. And I’m sitting like, No, Jesus is not your boyfriend.
Jesus is the savior. He is, he is the, the God of the universe. He is the king. He is our savior.
12:57 Dale Partridge
He’s it, uh, he,
12:59 Chris Grainger
he, he’s not kissing you on your nose and patting you on your back. And I think so much that has gone wrong, and that’s why it doesn’t resonate
13:04 Dale Partridge
with guys. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there is just so many elements here that we have, again, ized that we don’t even realize.
I mean, small group, like, just think about that word, small group. Mm-hmm. like what, what man wants to be a part of a small group. It’s just, it’s just sounds feminine. Um, I, I, I just go, No, we have a men’s meeting. That’s what we do. Uh, at our local church. We have a men’s meeting. Uh, and it’s, it’s not some place where you go.
You know, cry with one another. No, We talk about work, we talk about finances, we talk about marriage. We talk about meaning, we talk about scripture, we talk about obedience. Yeah. If, if there’s a, if there’s a man that’s broken because he’s fallen to sin or something tragic has happened there, there is that gentle and lowly side that men need to embrace.
But the reality is, is that that’s not always the case. And in fact, it’s actually often not the. What we need is strong encouragement and correction, exhortation, uh, leadership and, and that’s just not happening. One thing, um, one thing that I, I wrote, uh, in this book that I actually just recently added, Uh, Chris was, uh, a section called The Intensity of Christ that’s gonna come out in this newest edition.
Okay. So if you buy it, like starting, like, you know, basically I think next week it’ll come out with this small edition that I’ve added there. Uh, I recently posted a video on social media of a Christian man, and he walked into this drag queen story hour, uh, where all these little children were being indoctrinated with debauchery mm-hmm.
And the, the man was intense and he walked into the room and he was passionate. Condemning this wickedness that was right before him. And he’s already, he’s actually preaching a clear gospel of repentance and belief. And, uh, he was loud, he was firm, he was unrelenting. Um, but he didn’t use foul language. He, he wasn’t threatening, uh, he didn’t, you know, inflict physical harm upon anybody.
I posted this video out and within. An hour or two, I had several comments with people saying, This is not the way to win people to Jesus. Uh, and another person said, This does not represent Christ. Uh, he should have approached them with, you know, a softer spirit or something. And essentially these people implied that this man’s anger, uh, against sin and passion for righteousness was not representative of Christ.
And so they, they, they wonder how like this kind of intensity can be. Part of this kind of gentle and lowly Jesus, that America has been basically, you know, uh, swallowing for the last, you know, century. And, and so this emotionalism has crept into the church and it’s been taking these kind of weak-minded Christians captive because they don’t read their bibles and they don’t understand the intensity of Christ.
And so they believe that the, the love of Christ, um, Is not seen in the hatred of evil. I mean, Proverbs eight 13 says, The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil. Mm-hmm. . And so, uh, one of my friends actually recently said, Americanized Christianity has convinced millions of Christians that love your enemies means have no enemies.
I, I thought that was really good. Yes, because we have this reality, It’s like, Oh, we just have to love everyone. It’s like, no, we have enemies and there is sinful wickedness in the world that we need to condemn. And so it’s made us kind of apathetic toward, uh, or tolerant toward evil. And so our, again, our model is Christ.
And so the question. Uh, becomes, you know, how does Christ respond to false doctrine and deceived, uh, you know, deceiving individuals or, or how, how does he respond to the people who willfully stood against the kingdom of God? And, you know, perverted worship and. And, uh, you know, like there’s this last weekend there was this church in New York City that had drag queen stuff, you know, some church in, in, uh, Brooklyn.
And, and so how did God, or how did Jesus deal with these things, you know, Did, did he respond quietly with, Excuse me, I just wanna let you know that what you’re doing is sinful and it’s, it’s incorrect. No, no. He, he, he actually, he, he invoke, Intense, aggressive, cutting language, uh mm-hmm. to, to publicly shame, uh, convict, even condemn people who stand against God.
He calls them, you know, the scriptures show this. He calls them hypocrites and liars. He calls. A brute of vipers, which you have to remember, that Satan is, is in, in biblical narrative, is, is considered a serpent. Mm-hmm. . So he’s talking about your, he’s basically telling them children of Satan later, actually in John 8 44, he actually calls them children of Satan.
He calls ’em sons of hell. Um, a wicked and adulterous generation. Whitewashed tombs, a blind guides. I mean, ultimately there’s the, there’s another side and he, he does this right to their. Right. And he does, you know, and so there’s, there’s an another side of an intense angry, mocking and even satirical side of the savior that we need to pay attention to.
And so, um, you know, it’s, it’s this, this. , this two sided Jesus, that we need to really, this multidimensional Jesus that’s lacking in the church today. Mm-hmm. and, um, and that, that’s just again, been, um, been the focus of this book. How do we get people to grasp that there’s another side of Christ, and especially for men.
So I think men have read this and go, Ugh, thank you. Like this is just, yes, I can follow, I can follow this Christ. Right. Um, not just, not just as a savior, but as Lord and as king, um, and as ruler of the world. And so, uh, it gives people, it gives men vision, um, and, and there’s so much more. I mean, just the dominion element of of, of a man in his home and shepherding his family and, and the Good Shepherd fights off the evil.
There’s just so much there that is missing in the church today. Amen. Hey,
19:12 Chris Grainger
we’ll be right back guys.
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20:08 Dale Partridge
20:12 Chris Grainger
So I’m curious. The guys that are listening right now, you got ’em pumped up. They’re excited. They’re, they’re wanting to know what to do. So I mean, if, if, if they’re that guy, they’re listening right now and they’re like, All right, I wanna start building masculinity back into my church. How can they start, how can they get engaged?
Cause I mean, you’re right. Small groups and all these things and you know, the basic men’s breakfast or you know, an old football player comes in and talks about how you used to do drugs and they have a, a bacon sandwich and they, they go, That’s not, that’s not meant, I mean, that, that, that’s not. But a lot of times that’s what the church thinks, so yeah.
What are you telling guys to get ’em engaged and actually lean in and start making this thing happen?
20:46 Dale Partridge
Yeah. So, uh, your pastors don’t know what they don’t know, so you gotta first mm-hmm. , uh, if they knew what you knew they would do as you do. Mm. And so you have to get. You have to get what’s in your mind into their mind because we, we know that the heart can’t exult what the mind does not understand.
So theology is mental, right? So we have to understand that Jesus said, uh, the first and greatest commandments love Lord to God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, right? And so there’s gotta be a mental. Ascent towards theological truth. And so, um, you know, an easy button. The reason I wrote this book is, is to get men this book in their pastor’s hands, uh, so they can have that conversation.
We, we actually did, uh, um, a short steady guide. You can get it on our website. Um, if you wanna get the book, you just go to relearn.org/man. Mm-hmm , And you can get the study guy.
21:38 Chris Grainger
We’ll have that in the show notes for our listeners too, too. So, I mean, that study guide, cause this is a seven section, is could this be like a seven, seven meetings for, for men to get together to go through?
21:48 Dale Partridge
is that kinda how it’s designed? Yeah, exactly. You can have, you can have a men’s meeting. Um, and we did, uh, we broken it down even in our local church, uh, and we, we did a study guide for it to go, How do we pull all this thing out just. Unlearn and relearn the biblical attributes of, of manhood, of masculinity according to Christ.
And so, uh, you know, I often tell my boys, you know, I, I go, Hey, dad’s, dad’s a man to follow, but I’m only following Christ. I’m not the model. I’m just, I’m just a representative of the model. The model is, And so, uh, I always ask them, you know, what do men do? And they’ll, they’ll, they’ll yell back at me, protect and provide.
And I go, Okay, who was the only perfect man? Jesus Christ. And I, you know, I want them to know that, look, look to Dad as I follow Christ, but ultimately look to Christ and we need to get men back there. And that, that was the purpose of this book. So I would say step one is you gotta rally some guys around.
To let them learn what they don’t know. Mm-hmm. and, and, and to really, again, they, a phish doesn’t even know it’s wet. They don’t even realize how, how feminine their church is. Um, you know, we don’t sing a lot of these, uh, these modern songs today. We go back to the strong theologically, thick and dense hymns of the past.
We sing those things and we sing them. The, the men dominate. So, guys, one, one thing, I’m just gonna take a little bit of a, of a, uh, soapbox. So many guys, um, don’t sing because they think that singing is feminine. Mm-hmm. , because our culture has made singing feminine. If you would’ve said that to the dudes in World War ii, uh, as they were singing, uh, in foxhole and, and marching, they would’ve been like, What are you talking about?
Mm-hmm. singing has always been a masculine and feminine. Uh, act activity, right? But there was absolutely a masculine draw for singing. Uh, you know, there there’s the old guys that are in the Irish bar, you know, drinking scotch and singing songs together, that, that has gone away, right? And so guys don’t even sing now, now they look at the hymnal and they kind of just sit there.
Because they feel uncomfortable singing any sort of song. So again, you gotta get back to those strong songs that, that really, and, and, and bring up the men and let the tenors fall to the back in terms of the women can follow in these things. And, and, uh, you know, and, and again, there’s, I’m not saying that we, we just absolutely dominate the church, right?
Because the reality is, Uh, we have the women and we love the women, and, uh, they’re absolutely a vital part and portion of the body of Christ, right? But we, we need to be leading that way. And so, um, most of the songs are written for women for emotionalism mm-hmm. . And so we, we really need to get back to that heart.
So there’s just, again, getting the men to really understand what biblical masculinity really looks like. Not this garbage version that we’ve had even for the last maybe 30 or 40 years. Um, I, I just go, What does Christ really look like as a man? Um, and man, the resolve of Christ, the fearlessness, the intensity that boldness right?
You, you gotta grasp that reality. And so from there, um, I think it’s small change. . Okay. And small adjustments. How do you actually attract, And I think it’s clear doctrine. It’s, it’s, if your pastor isn’t a dominant alpha male, uh, now it doesn’t mean that he needs to be extrovert or he needs to be, uh, super intense.
Mm-hmm. . Um, it’s just there’s a confidence, there’s a leadership. And again, when you look at men, , Um, like MacArthur, you look at men like Paul Washer or Doug Wilson, I
25:42 Chris Grainger
throw. You can also throw in like Jo Martin on that one. He’s the one I.
25:46 Dale Partridge
You can even throw in guys like Allister Beg who’s, who’s not the hardest guy, but he’s confident.
He knows the scriptures, he calls out sins, he leads people to Christ. He, he’s, you know, he’s clear. Um, same with John Piper. You know, John Piper was one of those guys that, you know, he is got some, some, uh, different, you know, sways of theological position of the last couple years. But generally, you know, he’s the kind of guy that’ll he’ll be preaching quietly and then boom, explode in his preaching and he’s got.
That masculinity, He’s five foot six. Right? Okay. I mean, the, the guy is not a big guy, but he’s got that dominant, truthful, confident demeanor. And so those elements of leading his family and leading his church and leading his, uh, uh, you know, having clear theological convictions, these are all important elements.
Uh, and so we need models. We need models today. Um, mm-hmm. , one of the best models I think alive today is Doug Wilson. And so if you guys don’t listen to Doug Wilson and check out his stuff, he, he’s, he’s just, he’s probably, in my opinion, the, the leading model that I know of a, of a biblical masculine man.
Okay. Uh, this side of heaven.
26:57 Chris Grainger
Does he have, I, I’m not familiar with Doug. So does Doug have a. Can, Where do we find his
27:02 Dale Partridge
stuff at? Yeah. Can Cannon Plus or the Cannon Press app? You can find him. You know, he’s written I think 130 books. Okay. Uh, and he’s got, you know, five or six different podcasts and thousands of YouTube videos, and he’s probably 70 years old.
Uh, are close to it, been pastoring for probably 45 something years now, and he’s just, yeah, just solid rock solid guy. Uh, healthy family, healthy marriage, healthy kids, healthy grandkids, all following the Lord. And so just a, a good example of multi-generational faithfulness. That is awesome. And, and
27:35 Chris Grainger
that’s why we had the lion we’re, we’re learning together.
So, I mean, this is one guy’s jump on there. We’ll definitely dig in and dig into that. And just to kind of backtrack a second, Dale, back to the singing part. When you, when you were talking through that about how men just, they, they don’t sing, they stand in a pew, they just sit there. I had an interview with, uh, Ryan ler from the Order of Men, and he served in.
And he’s, and we were talking about one of the most spiritual moments he ever had in his life that we kind of, we ended up in this rabbit trail, and it was when he was serving, uh, overseas alongside of his brothers. They ended up, they were in, they found themselves in a chapel. They had their M 16 s underneath their, underneath their, uh, pew.
He just said literally under, you know, underneath our legs were, were weapons of mass destruction. But, uh, we all stood, we rose together and we were singing songs of praise. He’s like, And that was the most spiritual moment. He said, you know, there, there were no tenors in the room. Uh, and it was the most spiritual moment for him and his life.
And I just think there’s so much to that. But whatever we gotta do, we need to start getting that back into our, that, that Sunday morning routine and getting those guys engaged to that level. At that point, I think the spirit’s just gonna do incredible things in the
28:45 Dale Partridge
church. Yeah. Again, it’s just that balance, right?
Mm-hmm. , you need both sides. And so, uh, the problem is, is that gentle and lowly has 8,000 reviews on Amazon and is like one of the top 50 books, I think being sold on Amazon. Right. So I mean, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people are reading gentle and lowly, and they’re getting just this soft side of Jesus and that’s it.
Mm-hmm. . And so, uh, yeah, I mean, we, by God’s grace, uh, we launched this book only a couple months ago. We’ve already sold almost 5,000 copies and we’re, we’re continuing to push these things out. Um, it’s actually sold probably faster than any other book that I’ve written. And so people are wanting this, but we need more and more men to read it.
Pick up like 10 copies at a time. Give them out to guys. Yeah. Um, and that’s what a lot of people do. I mean, we’ve had guys at about 20, 30, 40, I’ve one guy bought 150 copies just to give ’em out to different men at different times. And so, uh, yeah, we, we just need to bring the pendulum back right to that moment where you have.
In order and leadership, uh, and, uh, balanced out with, with love and gentleness and compassion, you need both of them. Amen. Hey,
29:56 Chris Grainger
you guys will be right back.
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30:40 Dale Partridge
30:44 Chris Grainger
So Dale, I want to talk to you as well. You know, I, a few things pick picking my, that, that are on my mind. I’d love to get your, your feedback on, particularly as our listeners, they, you know, they’re, they’re trying to lead, they’re trying to get out there and be strong Christian men, strong Christian leaders.
Not all of us are called to seminary. You know, sometimes God doesn’t have that call, but he does call us a lead. So, you know, it could be financial reasons or just just different things. Maybe God just hasn’t put that on our heart. But we still want to lead our families and we still wanna be leaders in the church and our.
So can you speak to those guys who, who, who don’t have that seminary call around being an effective leader without the quote unquote official training?
31:20 Dale Partridge
Yeah. So, um, any man called to shepherd and that is to lead, lead men theologically. Uh, this is someone who is. Not submitting themselves in the same way to elders, but is actually operating as an elder, is doing the shepherding, is submitting themselves to Christ.
Mm-hmm. , um, that individual should be theologically trained. Now, I, I don’t, doesn’t mean seminary. Uh, Jesus, however, did not send the men, uh, the 12 disciples off. Uh, until after three years of intense training mm-hmm. , uh, these were also not men that started with nothing. I mean, we know that Peter, uh, before, uh, you know, he was talking about sitting on the roof and he has his vision of things that are unclean and God says, don’t make things that are, are, uh, are, are, that are clean unclean.
Mm-hmm. . He says, But Lord, I’ve never eaten such a thing in my life. I mean, these were devout Jews that probably memorized good portions of the Torah. They knew the law of God, and then they were brought into the fold of Christ. Uh, lived with Jesus for three years, training and teaching and theological comprehension.
Uh, watching the master in ministry and then they were sent off. Same with Paul. Paul spent, uh, about a decade of time, uh, that we don’t know about, much, about at least being trained and preparing himself before he went on his missionary journey. So there’s a gap between his, uh, conversion and his ministry.
Right. And so I, I would say is that don’t go lead theologically without. Because the biggest threat to the church today is pastors. It’s pastors who go, I like the Bible and I’m good on a stage. I’m gonna start a church. And they have no theological wherewithal. They, they haven’t maybe read the, the classic, you know, Statements of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith of the 1680.
Confession of faith. They don’t understand the doctrines of grace. Uh, they can’t, uh, break down systematic theology or biblical theology or church history. They’re not prepared for biblical counseling or, or gospel eldership, or they don’t have a sound ecclesiology. They’re not prepared to exe the text or do a, a sound heric and breaking down the meaning and extracting and exposing the passage of scriptures that they can extract what is true and present that to the body.
There. There’s lots of training required to theologically. And so if you’re gonna do that doesn’t mean you need to go to seminary, but you need to spend some time at some sort of training process. Whether that’s committing yourself to reading, you know, 25 different books on systematic theology and, and those different topics that I mentioned before.
Or if it’s, uh, submitting your yourself to some sort of training program that’s connected to your local. But do not go and shepherd God’s people without theological training. We would never, ever allow an untrained doctor to be our surgeon. No way. We would never, ever allow an attorney to represent a major court case that didn’t pass the bar.
I don’t know why. We allow people to basically operate on our souls, uh, which is more important than our bodies. Mm-hmm. . Without theological training. And, and so unless your pastor has, and, and, and I would say there’s very few exceptions. I mean, Charles Spurgen never went to seminary. He also owned the largest library in London.
Um, and, and so he also was a, a savant who read Pilgrim’s Progress, you know, 10 times by the time he was 10 years old. And, and on top of that, his grandfather was a pastor and his father was a pastor and he was just absolutely saturated, right. With Christian doctrine. And so there, there are exceptions, but we need men to be slow.
To go into that position, however. Mm-hmm. , if you wanna lead, um, you know, uh, a men’s group or something like that, it needs to be under the oversight of elders. I’ll tell you what, one of the biggest mistakes of modern Christianity is this idea of the Bible study. Okay? Let me tell you something. The Bible study does not exist in church.
Now there, there, there is no point in church history where you’re gonna see a lay led Bible study. Okay? The Bible studies were always historically led by the pastor like Matthew Henry, who wrote the longest standing Bible commentary. He would do a Bible study, but he would lead it on Wednesdays and Fridays for the young adults and for, uh, and this isn’t the Purita era in the 16 hundreds.
And so you don’t have this, this, uh, This historical record of John over there is gonna go lead a Bible study through Ephesians at his house, and Susie over there is gonna lead a Bible study through First Corinthians at her house. This, this is not a thing in church history. We have invented this kind of independent.
Uh, autonomous view of the church that is lacking submission to the oversight, the theological oversight of elders. And it’s actually, if you Google, I go to YouTube Insight how to start a Bible study, and a good majority of those videos are gonna be like 21 year old girls giving instruction on how to lead a Bible study.
Like that’s, that’s not okay. Right? Every Bible study needs to have a biblically qualified, ordained elder of the church that you are at overseeing the theological doctrine that’s taught at that Bible study. That that is biblical and that is historical. And that’s what we see throughout not just church history, but also in scripture.
So we have, we have that. Um, and, uh, so, so we, we want to lead. I mean, and let me give another example. John MacArthur’s Church. You know who the head of the women’s ministry is. It’s a man. Okay. We, we need men that are leading up theologically trained, biblically qualified First Timothy Myth three, titu one elders that are overseen the women’s ministry.
Yes, they have a, a woman who’s actually facilitating the things that are coming out, but the theological doctrines that are taught from the women’s ministry at Grace Community Church are being overseen by a man. And so the same thing is true at our local church. Uh, the ladies are going through a book.
It was approved by me. I wanted to make sure that, that this was a good book, and, and they’re reading it and I wanna find out what they’re talking about because you know who the women’s pastor is? It’s me at the church. Okay. This idea of having the men have a men’s pastor and the woman have a woman’s pass, it’s like, You know who the pastor, My, my wife is not the woman’s pastor.
My wife is the pastor’s wife. I’m her pastor, and I’m also the pastor of the men and the women in the church. And so we just need to have a, a sound ecclesiology and, and men need to go, Hey. Yeah, if you’re, you could be involved, you could, but, but you gotta be careful. There, it’s actually very masculine to submit yourself to those elders, um, who have been trained, who have been called, who have that yearning, burning, and churning.
Um, and so if that, If you wanna serve in some other way, do it co-laboring with an elder, do it co-laboring with, with another pastor or, or someone who has been trained. Uh, just don’t go rogue. Um, because again, man, the last thing you wanna do is teach heresy, and I promise you more people do it than they intend to.
Um, you, you just be. I’m
39:12 Chris Grainger
sure, and as I’m curious now, it’s a lot of our guys listening, they’re, they’re, you know, they’re in life. They’re, they’re raising families. They’re, you know, they’re in, they’re in their careers and maybe they have that calling. Dale can, so can they get this training without quote unquote, you know, Quitting their jobs and, and, and, and leaving.
I mean, can they do it in, in, in online type of, of, of, of training at, in the evenings, at night, weekends? What type of options are out there so they can get those qualifications so that they could go out and leave like
39:41 Dale Partridge
your, like you’re speaking about. Yeah. So again, one thing you wanna do is you always wanna do it and.
Collaboration with your local church if you’re not committed as a member to a local church, uh, in submission to the elders that are there. And when I say submission, I say like, spiritually submitted. Mm-hmm. to, to the elders that are there. You need to be. So that’s step one. Become a member of a local church.
You need to find a good local church. And so you could find a good local church at, uh, founders.org has a great, uh, church finder. Uh, the Master Seminary has a good church. Nine marks has a good church finder. Uh, so check out those Church finders. Um, Reformation Fellowship is our, uh, network of house churches.
We do biblical reformed house churches. Um, you could find, uh, house, church there. We don’t have many in the, in the network at this point. So we’re, you know, maybe have you have 10 or 15 across the United States? But we’re adding more. But, but you can, you can find, find a biblical church first that you can do that.
And then the second thing is, is to have a relationship with your elders that are there. They might already have a program or a training program of some sort that they’re putting together. If not, there are seminary programs that, that you can actually go to that are short, uh, you know, graduate certificate level stuff that maybe only takes a year.
Mm-hmm. , we actually have a seminary. Church planters, uh, that are planting Biblical House email@example.com. Uh, that that’s a one year program. But you know, the Southern Seminary, um, Midwestern Seminary, uh, you know, uh, the Master’s University, there are some other, uh, education centers that allow, uh, Grace Bible Theological Seminary.
There are some online programs of some training, and then there’s also just. Taking the time to reading a handful of classics. I mean, getting a chance to read, you know, um, Berkoff’s Systematic Theology or getting a chance to read, you know, lectures from my students, from Charles Spurgeon. Um, there’s just that dive, you know, comprehending the, the theological convictions of the Puritans.
I mean, we need to have that passion for doctrine if we want to teach and if we wanna lead.
41:44 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Thank you so much for, for going on that rabbit trails. I think that was, is very encouraging for me as well as the listeners out there of the different avenues that we can take and you know, I know one area we wanted to talk about Dale with you is, is evangelism in general.
You know, that can be so intimidating to guys. I mean, just, it can be intimidating to every everyone, but for for guys in particular, it can be intimidating. So a lot of times we think that, well that’s just a pastor’s job that’s just for preachers. But no, we are called to evangelism and I know you have some.
Some, some great, uh, thoughts around that topic as well as what you’ve, you’ve built around mail the gospel. So would you mind sh you know, give us your, your, in your insight on this.
42:20 Dale Partridge
Yeah. So guys, um, the gospel. So first a lot, again, I think a lot of guys don’t share the gospel because the, the way the gospel is presented now is as, again, it’s a feminine.
Mm-hmm. Um, when you look at Paul, the way that Paul presents the gospel, if you read Roman. And you get him from Romans chapter one and chapter two, he starts out with fire. I mean, full blown condemnation of every individual on Earth. You are not going to uphold the law of God. You are a sinner. Uh, the law of God is going to crush you.
Um, it’s bad news. And the only reason the good news is good is because the bad news is so bad, someone. Mm-hmm. needs to meet the righteous requirements of justice. And Christ does that for us. Christ becomes our righteousness. He’s the one that keeps the law perfectly, and he gives us his righteousness through faith.
And so we give us, we give him our sin, He gives us his righteousness. It’s called double imputation. And that is the gospel, that that is essentially what it is, but it’s bad news, Good news, gospel. Now, most people don’t hear a bad news, good news gospel. They hear a repentance free. Jesus loves you and wants you to come to him.
Gospel. It’s not biblical. And half those people that heard that thing have never even actually been born again because they never came through the right door, uh, which the door is Christ. And so, um, evangelism right now in the church is really weak. Uh, less than 10% of Christians share the gospel with one person per year, and they do that.
They either don’t know the gospel, uh, they’re intimidated by the fear of man. Um, they are afraid of the apologetic questions that come as a result of it. And so we wanted to create a program with, with theologically accurate, bold, clear proclamations of the gospel that are beautifully designed. Uh, and I say beautifully designed because I hate it that Christians.
Don’t have any alternatives from the world’s offerings because Christians create crap stuff most of the time. I mean, everything’s just ugly or low budget. I mean, think of a Christian movie and you’re like, That was really well done. I mean, generally that’s not the case. And so it’s slowly starting to change, but we need Christian men to be, We’re the ones that behold truth and behold beauty.
We need Christian men and Christian women to start creating things that are at least unequal par with the things that the world creates. And so the reason we don’t have better cartoons for our kids and better movies for our families and better products is because Christians don’t create them, uh, with the same level of intensity and passion that the world does.
It’s, it’s frustrating. So we wanted to create right, beautiful stuff. Things that are nice, things that are, that are, uh, have high quality. Uh, standards. So we created mail, the gospel.org, and it’s this beautiful website allows you to mail the gospel to anybody you want to. Uh, and you could, you can mail ’em with a, um, a gospel track with a Bible.
And these gospels, if you’re looking out here on the video version of this, here’s a copy of one of them. I mean, they’re these little booklets. Mm-hmm. , It’s a full presentation of the gospel. You can read it in about 15 minutes. Um, and we’ve already had. Well over a couple thousand people in the last eight weeks.
Send the gospel to different individuals. You can leave it, you can also do it personalized, you can do it anonymously, but we need individuals to share the gospel. We wanna nurture that appetite for you guys to share the gospel. And you know what, You might even start off with sending it to yourself just so you can read it.
Mm-hmm. so that you can comprehend it. Like, do I understand the gospel thoroughly, Like enough that I can communicate it eloquently to someone else? And so, Um, we put this together really as a, as a ministry and a tool for the church. And, uh, we’re excited about it and people are using it. And so our heart is to, uh, you know, fulfill the great commission to get out there and, uh, have the gospel be proclaimed to all the world.
Well, that is
46:17 Chris Grainger
wonderful, and we’ll make sure we, we have that synced up into show notes for you listeners out there. So we’re gonna take our last break. We’ll be right back guys.
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So, Dale, this has been wonderful. You’ve, you’ve really unpacked so much here on, you know, the Manness of Christ. You know, walking through, you know, the different types of trainings as well as leading us to sharing evangelism and mail the gospel. Do org g. So excited for that. But before, before we let you go, We have what’s called in line within is feeding time.
That’s where it’s, it is quickfire. It’s a lightning round. Love to, uh, to, to have some fun with you on this if you’re willing to, to play along. Amen. Let’s do it. All right. So number one question. What is your favorite thing about God?
47:45 Dale Partridge
Uh, the sovereignty of God. The sovereignty of God is the thing that can carry you through any tragedy, any trial.
Because you go, Lord, you have either decided this to occur or have permitted it to occur, and that you work all things for good, for those who are called according to your purpose. And so the sovereignty of God gives you rest and peace in everything because he is in control of absolutely every element of life.
48:11 Chris Grainger
What’s your least favorite thing about Satan? Uh, .
48:15 Dale Partridge
Just the, uh, the, the, the constant perversion of. Things of the world, so things that are good. Mm-hmm. , there’s a constant perversion. So like what we’re seeing right now in gender, never before, never before have we seen culture embrace these extra biblical categories of personhood based off of gender disconnecting gender from sex.
Right? That kind of perversion and delusion. I absolutely hate
48:44 Chris Grainger
about that. Amen. Well, is there something that you’re currently struggling with right now?
48:51 Dale Partridge
Yeah. Uh, you know, for me, I think making sure that I remain the family man Mm. That I proclaim others to be. Mm-hmm. , uh, I’m, I’m a, you know, people have told me this.
I’m a thoroughbred that wants to run and, uh, you know, it’s easy to give the best of yourself to the ministry and the rest of yourself to your. Right. And, uh, it’s just, I’m constantly reminded that my qualification for what I do occurs because it’s true at home. And, but it is a constant grind. To be reminded of sitting down and playing Legos with my kids is actually part of the, um, credibility of my.
And, and, and so it, it’s really, uh, it’s a, yeah, it’s a, it’s a constant battle to, to, to be reminded that those simple things of just being home and being present, um mm-hmm. and, uh, telling your wife how beautiful she looks. Uh, being reminded that those things are actually the credentials that give me the authority to speak into other men’s lives.
And so, it’s hard, man. It’s, it’s, it’s. Uh, I’m not perfect at it. Um, I’m constantly, constantly aware of it. Uh, but, but it’s, uh, it’s a journey for all of us. Amen,
50:22 Chris Grainger
buddy. Now what, what’d you spend too much time doing
50:25 Dale Partridge
last year? Huh? Being sick? Uh, I was, I, I got really ill, uh, in, uh, 2000, uh, what was it? I guess 20.
Um, mm-hmm. , it was 2020 and 2021. I got mold toxicity. I was having a series of buildings that I was living in that had mold, and I finally figured out what was the problem was that my body was basically allergic to black mold or any mold of any kind. I was having seizures. I was in bed. I was, um, I was bleeding internally.
I was having kidney issues. I was having all types of problems and, uh, Wow. I, I, I, yeah, basically wasn’t working. So being sick was, Uh, it was a lesson the Lord accomplished, a work in me that you can only accomplish in someone that’s sick. Um, and so there was a closeness and a, and a humility that occurred, uh, in that year that actually probably about two years of time.
Um, but yeah, that I’m, the Lord has by his grace, has, has brought me into a much stronger position, far more health than I had, uh, in years prior. And, uh, it’s been wonderful to be outta the.
51:30 Chris Grainger
Amen. We, we’ll keep praying for your health too, Dale, but you’re doing wonderful things. So two, two more questions here.
What’s a, what’s a new habit that you want to create, uh, moving forward? You
51:39 Dale Partridge
know, I, being, getting healthy, uh, I just started playing pickleball. Um, Okay. And, uh, man, I’ll tell you what, I’m like, I’m in love, man. This, this game is so fun and, uh, you know, it’s really not just the game, but it’s the intensity. I leave absolutely drenched in sweat.
Having a competitive, intense time with the couple guys that I play with and, uh, the camaraderie that I found on the court. Uh, yeah, the, just the intensity, it’s been good to be out and to be healthy and to, to have my heart pounding and going for two hours straight. We live in Arizona, so last night I was playing, it was 93 degrees and I was playing for two hours straight drenched and sweat and, um, and I wouldn’t have been able to do, Man, I, I haven’t worked out like that since I was maybe in my early twenties.
And so it was just, it’s just been a good habit that I’m excited. We do, we go, you know, three, four times a week right now, and I, I’m, I’m about four months in and I’m loving every minute. That
52:43 Chris Grainger
is awesome. Well keep, keep it up my friends. So the last question, what is one thing that you hope the, the listeners out there to Lions remember from our conversation?
52:52 Dale Partridge
Ooh, um. If you believe wrong, you’ll never live strong. Um, if you believe wrong, you never live strong. So believing right is essential. You, you absolutely need. To have a right view of God, a right view of yourself, and a right view of the bridge that is Christ that gets you to God. And, uh, that that is the gospel.
And so when you believe wrong man, you don’t realize how much damage deception can do in your life. And so it’s essential that you get yourself into a bi, into a biblical church with sound doctrine, with a sound, uh, preacher, uh, that’s given the truth of God every single Sunday.
53:34 Chris Grainger
Absolutely love it. So, Dale, where do you want guys to go to connect with you?
Uh, relearn all the different mail, the gospels, if you wanna call that out. Of course we’ll sync everything up in the show notes, but if you wanna shout that
53:43 Dale Partridge
out, that’d be great. Yeah. I have a podcast that I roll out every week called Real Christianity. Uh, it’s been going for several years now. Uh, that’s a great place.
If you want to just get a part of what we do at our ministry, uh, our ministry is relearn.org. Lots of resources, articles, and videos. Podcast and different things that are there, uh, as well as Reformation Seminary, if you wanna plant a house, church or learn more about that. Um, and then, uh, Mail the gospel.org.
Um, and you know what, I have one more. One more. It’s like a, it’s a little product that we created couple years ago and has been absolutely game changer for men. Men, if you are struggling with pornography, which men? Mm-hmm. . Lots of men struggle with it. Yes. Okay. If you’re battling pornography, we rolled out a program called Stand in victory.org.
It’s a go at your own pace. You could finish it in three hours or in three weeks. Okay? But it is an absolute game changer program that’s gospel centered. And it, it’ll be a, I mean, man, this testimonies that I’ve received from hundreds and hundreds of men, uh, it’s for men and women, but you know, I, I’m the one that’s teaching it, but it’s a great program.
Check it out. Stand in victory.org if that’s your.
54:55 Chris Grainger
Okay. We’ll make sure all those things are synced up in the, uh, show notes there for you listeners. And Dale has been great. Anything else you have to add on the line within us today?
55:03 Dale Partridge
No, man. Thank you, man. It’s been a pleasure to be here and, uh, excited for shows like yours to continue on to, to build up biblical men.
55:10 Chris Grainger
Thank you so much, sir. You have a wonderful
55:12 Dale Partridge
day. You too, brother.
55:16 Chris Grainger
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Guys, I told you that was gonna be a powerful conversation. Now Dale is doing phenomenal work. He is on fire. He is definitely earning, turning, and, and burning as just he would say, So guys, again, go back and, and re-listen. There’s so much there to unpack. Go to the show notes as well, because all the different areas he, he pointed to that he’s pointing people to and how he could serve you.
It’s there. And I highly recommend guys, get the book, The Manliness of Christ and use it. Use it. What’s your group? Use it. What’s your lines? Did? This is gonna be a book that, I mean, I know I talk about it every week. We have books of the week, but this one right here, I mean it’s, there’s notes all over.
This is a great book. I’m gonna use it with my discipleship group. We’re going, I’m, I’m gonna introduce this to our guys and start working through it. Guys, I just, there is power here and, and what Dale has put together. So I really hope you, you got a lot out of this. As he mentioned, if you believe we’re wrong, you will never live strong.
You have to get a line on what scripture says and then start applying that to our lives. Okay guys? Now to question a week, this week, do you see masculinity in your church? And if you don’t, what can you start doing? You to to introduce it because we need it there. We need strong men in our churches, leading, having conversations, serving, helping others, and getting out front.
So guys, if you enjoyed this conversation, share with others, please share with others. Give us a five star rating and review, Hop over to the line within us, Join the lines. Then hey, check us out on Facebook and Instagram. I wonder, I haven’t been talking about Instagram much, but we, we, we post on Instagram as well, so if you, you’d rather do Instagram versus Facebook, check us out there.
There’s links in the show notes that you can connect with us directly on both of those platforms, guys. So check out the Bible study, check out the course, guys, All that stuff, the resources are there to serve you, to help you grow in your. I know Dale, he is, He’s doing some incredible things, and some of you guys will, I’ll never be where he’s at.
Well, you’re where you’re at for a reason. So just start today. Make one step four. Just one step four. You can do this guys, just, just one step at a time. Don’t let Satan tell you these lies that you can do it. Okay guys, You are equipped and if you’ve been called God’s gonna qualify you. He’s gonna put the men around you that’s gonna help.
You’ll help you get. That’s what the line within us is all about. We have men around us that are gonna be there for each other, be encouraging each other, that’s gonna be supporting each other, and it’s gonna be helping each other grow. Guys, that’s. It’s all about. So come back for Friday. We’ll have a good fun Friday.
We’re gonna really dig into some things. Got a few tips that I think are gonna help you along the way. One of ’em in particular may really help you and your significant other with some, some nice brownie points. So come back on Friday. Do not miss that one. Probably make, make them miss a smile. So guys, pray this one serve you well.
Thank you again for joining today. Share with others. Now it’s time to get out and unleash the lion. Within.
Items covered include:
- Overview of masculinity in general
- Effeminate church and the recent shift
- How men should be responding at their local church
- How small groups and Bible studies have gone wrong
- What training should be considered for ministry leadership
- Ways to present the Gospel that everyone can utilize
Dale is hard charging and speaks Truth. The information he shares has the opportunity to make an impact on so many.
Listen, learn, apply and then unleash the Lion Within.
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