00:00 Chris Grainger
Welcome to the Lion within us, a podcast sermon Christian man who are hunger to be the leaders God intends you to be. I’m your host, Chris Granger. Let’s jump in. Alright guys. It is your meat episode or weekend. I hope you already, but before we get too far, we’re gonna start, like we always start God’s word.

We’re go right to God’s Word. And then this week we’ve been in the Book of Revelation chapter one, two verses 17 and 18. Okay says, when I saw him, I felt at his feet. That’s though dead. But he laid his right hand on me saying, fear not. I am the first and the last and the living one. I died. And behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and Hades.

And guys, if you missed a spiritual kickoff, go back and listen to that one. I really spent a lot of time unpacking that scripture and hopefully, hopefully giving you some insight to how you can apply this to your life. Now, today, for this episode to say, I’m excited. It will be an understatement. Okay, I’m gonna tell you what.

Think back when you were a kid. And the best Christmas you had. Okay. And the, and, and you got that presence you’ve been waiting on and the excitement you have. That’s how I get every chance I get to talk. Pastor Jovi Martin, it is always incredible. It’s, it’s, it’s just a fun time. Uh, I listen to three to five of his sermons every week.

Uh, some of ’em are just on repeat over and over and over. So thankful for my brother Daniel, for, for and, and Luke a couple years ago for turning me on to Pastor Jobby. He is just, he, he brings it. So we talk a lot about his new book. Uh, anything is Possible. Now, pastor Jobby, for you guys that don’t know Yes, he’s, he’s just the pastor of the Church of 1122 out of Jacksonville, Florida.

Uh, one of the fastest growing churches in the. Just a phenomenal speaker, phenomenal preacher. Uh, he just stands on God’s word every week. He teaches verse by verse. That’s it. He unpacks each verse. He actually, in this conversation, tells us how he prepares his sermons, how he goes about the process of getting ready, and the three questions, the three questions he always asks whenever he’s reading God’s word.

So, guys, you don’t wanna miss this. Don’t miss these three questions cuz they are very impactful. And if you just simply applied these three questions to any time you’re in the word, it’s going to help you grow. So guys, I’m gonna tell you what, get, get ready. Hold on. This is gonna be one. You wanna listen to it one time, not one and a half or anything like that.

Just slow down. Just let, just let the word soak in. Enjoy it and be sure to go check out the show notes cuz we’re gonna have all the links to everything that Pastor Jovi and I talk about for you guys a hookup. I’m telling you this resources he puts out. This is not just your everyday stuff. This stuff will absolutely make an impact on your walk of Christ.

So enjoy this, this second conversation with Pastor Jovi Martin.

So Pastor Jobby, welcome back to the line within us. It’s so good to have you back, sir.

02:52 Pastor Joby Martin
Thanks for having me, man. Glad to be here.

02:55 Chris Grainger
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, man, I’m looking forward to this conversation with you and, and I just wanna start off just by thanking you for your mentorship. You don’t even know the impact you’ve had on me and my life and, and the community to line within us too, because I talk about you guys so much.

I literally listened to three to five of your sermons per week and some of ’em multiple times the. The, the how to raise a daughter. I’ve listened to that one. My girls probably five, three to five times each. And, and they just, they, they love getting in the car and they know when they get in that Pastor Jovi is gonna be talking about something.

Just get in and let’s just listen and see what you gotta say. So I just, I wanted to thank you for, for the way you’ve mentored me, uh, my personal growth with Christ. You have impacted that greatly. And I also know that you, you’re, you’re kind of a alpha guy. I got something I wanna

03:40 Pastor Joby Martin
challenge you on. Are you ready?

Yeah. First of all, thank you. Thanks for saying that. I never thought, uh, when I got into ministry, you know, that I would have any impact beyond the people that were within earshot of me with my Bible open. So, praise God for the technology that allows that. So, yeah, go ahead. What’s your challenge? Alright, my challenge

04:01 Chris Grainger
to you.

So, I, I listen to so many sermons and you say moderately delivered, exceptionally received. And I think about that with so many of my guys that, that we work with at the line with Dennis. And I think about you and your obedience to the spirit and the way that you are. Just, you’re, you’re plugged into the word.

You know what you’re good at. You know what you’re not good at. You said, I love it when you say you’re not a counselor. You’re not going to tell, you’re not gonna like what I tell you in counseling sessions. So you just gonna completely, you just write that off. But you, you put all your, your obedience in your work into, you know, learning the word and preaching the word.

And I think about craftsmen, people who actually do stuff in vocation and once they get to a certain level, they become master craftsmen. I mean, that’s a, that’s just a, a well known term, right? So I don’t want you to consider, just consider it. Would you consider change that moderately delivered and exceptionally received to masterfully delivered and divinely received?

Because I’m gonna tell you what, you deliver it masterfully and the spirit reveals stuff to me. Every time I listen to you preach that, I can only tell you it is from the Holy Spirit. So I will just encourage you, cuz I think more and more guys need to lean into those, those, those talents, those gifts that God’s given us.

And you have done that 100%. I think you, it’s masterfully delivered and I think it’s finally received. So that’s my challenge to just to consider thinking

05:17 Pastor Joby Martin
about that. Well, I agree with the second part that the spirit of God teaches you things, but I still have a long, long, long way to go in regards to the, the gift and the skill of preaching.

05:31 Chris Grainger
Well, if you have a long ways to go, I’m, I’m looking forward to the ride because I’m enjoy, I’ve just enjoyed ride. I’m enjoying the ride.

05:37 Pastor Joby Martin
I must admit, sir. Well, good. I hope you’ll you’ll stay on board. I will,

05:42 Chris Grainger
I will. And, and, and I tell you one thing, I was listening, uh, talking to some of our guys lately, and they were talking about growing and, and, and they’re, they were struggling with their relationship with God.

And I immediately thought about you. How you say you, you, you, your preparation happens in the woods. You know, you go to the woods. That’s where you feel like you do your best work to get prepared, to get ready to, to hold the spirit’s moving. Can you give us some practical insight to what does that look like?

Because I, I try to talk to guys about what it looks like for me, but I. To hear, you’re like, when you’re in the tree stand and you’re in the woods, what are you doing practically in those moments to be able to really discern what the Holy Spirit is, is trying to tell you?

06:22 Pastor Joby Martin
Well, I don’t want people to get lost in the weeds.

The, you know, um, it, it could be anything. It, it’s what the, it’s what the reformers would call mortification and vilification. You better be killing the sin or it’ll be killing you, but that’s not enough. You’ve also gotta do the things that stir your affections for the Lord. And we’re all wired in different kind of ways.

And man, I’m an outdoors man. I love the woods. I, I hear the Lord better also. Um, I don’t have very good phone reception out there, so that’s good that people can’t get to me. But ultimately what I’m doing is I’m just, um, praying and meditating on the word. You see, a part of it was, man, when we planted the church of 1122, and I would read these biographies of Spurgeon and Calvin and people like that.

Their prayer lives were just through the roof. And I didn’t feel like my prayer life was keeping up with the amount of responsibility that God was giving me. And so the, the biggest thing I’m doing when I’m out in the woods, man, is just, um, read some Bible, pray and talk to the Lord. And then if someone walks by, shoot it, but there’s not this, um, it’s a very unhurried time.

I could write sermons in a much more efficient way if I just came to my office with all of my commentaries and you know, all of the access to the, to the things like that. But it’s just better for my soul if I get out in the woods and just depend on the Lord in those moments. So is it, is it just, but in regards to your, to your walk with Jesus, you gotta lean into what James says, James, on behalf of God says, draw near to me and I will draw near to you.

So get specific. What does that look like for you in your life?

08:09 Chris Grainger
That’s a good point. So, I mean, I think many times for me, I even find, you know, when I’m trying to study the

08:14 Pastor Joby Martin
word, like I have, I got

08:16 Chris Grainger
four or five Bibles over here to my left, study Bibles and things like that. But I almost feel like sometimes I get why that’s good In some moments I just get too deep it, I can get on all these different rabbit trails and it’s me versus giving the only spirit, the opportunity to teach me in those months.

So it sounds like when you do it, you are you just taking one Bible? Is that pretty much what you have with you?

08:38 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, just my bible, my SV translation on my phone. That’s all I got. Okay, okay. And then, and you know, I don’t know if that’s unfair. I’ve got degrees in the stuff and 30 years of preaching. I’ve preached virtually every week of my life for the last 30 years.

So it might be a little different for a guy that’s just diving in for the first time. I’m pro commentary, I’m pro resources, I’m pro bible study, I’m all those things, man. You should use all those things. But. Jesus did tell us that the spirit of God would teach us and remind us of everything that he had taught us.

So you can always count on the spirit of God to help you teach you exactly what you need to know, when you need to know it. Mm-hmm. Amen to that. Okay.

09:21 Chris Grainger
Well I did, I appreciate you giving me that insight and for our listeners too, cuz I’ve always just wondered, what does that actually look like for you?

Because the sermons are so just packed, I just can’t imagine it. And sometimes that, and then I guess you said when something walks by you shoot it and you ha you offed that. Right?

09:37 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. But you know, I mean for all of all of our hunters that are listening, it’s pretty much just an arm quiet, Tom. I mean, the actual hunt part of it, it’s pretty short.

Especially if you’re like deer hunting, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I mean, it’s a five hour sit. Mm-hmm. Where do you see something for like 30 seconds and then there have been many times, man, I bow hunt primarily and I’ve shot a deer and sat back down cause my sermon’s not done. Give it an hour, which is also a good idea.

It’s all you novice bow hunters out there. Give it an hour even if you think you hit it good. And uh, but yeah, I don’t get outta the stand until I’m done with the sermon first.

10:12 Chris Grainger
Nice, nice. I I love it. Well, I’m just, just grateful for you the way you are using your gift and for this book too, you know, anything is possible.

It’s, it blessed me greatly. I actually read it twice just cause I couldn’t, like, I wanted to just really just, just soak in it and learn from it. And you talk about the Nine Miracles and I love how, you know, you point to that personal relationship that he desires with us and each one of ’em has like that.

Do you question, I just thought that was just so powerful that do you, because that talks about, you know, where he’s at, maybe from a 30,000 foot view for our, for our listeners out there. You know, how do we move from that story, the stories we hear from about Christ to that, that, that faith in action.

Right. Till we actually start making some of this stuff actually

10:54 Pastor Joby Martin
be part of our walk. Yeah, well this is really the sequel to my first book, which is if the tomb is empty. And so the first book, you know, we walk through seven different mountains that point to a mountain that held a tomb, but the tomb couldn’t hold the body.

Well, now that the greatest miracle of all time has happened in the resurrection, then we can believe God for anything. Because with God, anything is possible. And so the, the gospel of John doesn’t even call miracles, miracles. He always calls ’em signs because they point to something greater than the miracle itself.

Like Jesus wasn’t doing miracles just to like reveal his raw power. He, he was trying to point us to his reconciling work of who we would be in him. And so, listen, even when I write, it’s the same as when I preach. Um, I just unpack a text really, you know, we’re just digging into what the Bible says. And so when I come to a text, I try to ask these three questions.

Just what happened. And, and a lot of times, you know, as a preacher, you’re, you’re not only, um, ex exposing the scripture, but you’re also trying to ex execute like the time and the culture and why this matters and why you would say something like that. So just trying to explain what happened. Try to help the reader or the listener get your mind around, use some hopefully Holy Spirit imagination there to get yourself in that time and place.

Okay, so what happened? And then I would ask the question, well, so what, so what does this have to do with us? You know, so what Jesus turns water to wine. Well, what the heck does that matter? If that’s, if that’s all it means? And then maybe the most important question then that I lead towards is, well, now what?

So if this is what happened and this is what it means, then what does it mean for my life going forward? And even if you’re just doing your own little. Inducted Bible study, quiet time. And you approached the text with those three questions. It helped you a lot in framing up, um, how you read the Bible for your own discipleship.

And so that’s how I teach the Bible. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

13:04 Chris Grainger
And I mean, and and quite frankly, I’ve stolen a lot of that, those, those, those principles when I teach Sunday school with, in my local class, like we just go verse by verse. I try to give some of that context, but I always try to take two to application.

Now what, what does this mean for us and how can we apply this? And for the line within us, I say, how can we simplify and apply God’s word? Like how can we actually make that applicable? Cuz I think all of us useful for, for teaching. Right. And I mean it’s just, I’ve been using a lot of your John 10 10, cuz I know you guys are in the middle of the abundant life right now.

And just trying to understand it. That’s right. That, that verse means so impactful to us too. So I, I just, I I love that I’m gonna start using that more. What happened, so what? And now what, man, that’s, that’s good

13:42 Pastor Joby Martin
stuff. Yeah, man. And in fact, when I train preachers, that’s, that’s one of the ways I train them.

Because, because it’s one thing to teach you a passage of scripture, it’s another thing to teach you how to see passages of scripture. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so that, that’s what discipleship is. Discipleship is not just me telling you what it says, discipleship is training you on how to read it so that you can lean in to do what the spirit tells you to do.

Right, right, right. These are two new things. Okay.

14:14 Chris Grainger
Love it. I love it. Well, let’s, let’s talk about the very first one. Cause I think that that first miracle where it talks about, to me it’s all about obedience, you know, around, uh, the turn the water to, to wine. And when I think about men, and we serve so many, so many men with our ministry, this is the one I know so many guys struggle with, including yours.

Truly, I’m not, I’m not out, you know, saying that I don’t struggle with this. Cause I definitely do. Uh, and, and it takes me back to last year when, when we, uh, met for the first time talking through, if the tomb is empty. You’re parting words, you may not remember, but you told me like, Chris, you just gotta do whatever he tells you to do.

And I just, that’s always stuck with me and I’ve used that time and time again with others. And that’s easy when it’s something that I wanna do, but it’s not always easy when it’s something that I don’t want to do. So maybe give us some insight there around that obedience when sometimes the Holy Spirit’s telling us to do something that doesn’t really align to our personal

15:05 Pastor Joby Martin
desires.

Yeah. I’d say a lot more than sometimes, but rarely do I have the desires that God has. I often have these like fleshly desires that just wanna make much of me. Yeah. I was at a, uh, fellowship, adventures, uh, meeting, which is my friend Jeff Moore. Remember Jeff Moore in the distance? That guy? Yes sir. So he now has like a, a Christian hunting outfitter thing that he does ministry.

It’s awesome. And um, so I was with him in Nebraska and he had this brand new intern who had just gotten into ministry and the intern asked me, And he listens to me and all that stuff. And he said, what’s the best piece of advice you could give me in ministry? Mm-hmm. And I thought, wow, that’s pretty wide open.

And immediately I thought of John two five. So they run, they’re in, in Cana at the wedding. They run out of wine. Mary goes to Jesus, says, son, they’ve run outta wine. He says something you should never say to your wife, woman, what does this have to do with me? Right. And she knows though. Right. The Bible says that from the moment Jesus was born, she had treasured all these things in her heart.

Mm-hmm. So for 30 ish years, she’s waiting. She’s waiting for him to show the world. He is the son of God. Well, then she gathers the servants together and gives, in my opinion, um, one of the greatest verses in regards to discipleship or obedience. Just do whatever he tells you to do. Mm-hmm. That’s what ob, that’s what discipleship is.

Discipleship is simply this. What is your next step of obedience? Mm-hmm. That’s what it is. Mm-hmm. Not next step of learning. What is your next step of obedience? Now your obedience needs to be fueled by what you’ve learned, and I think in the American West, we have equated discipleship with How much Bible do you know?

Mm. I don’t, I don’t know that that would be the right way to look at it if you were a follower of Jesus right now, again, we are for sure to seek knowledge. We’re to seek wisdom that ultimately comes from the word of God. So if you don’t know the word of God, there’s no way you’re going to know what he is telling you to do.

So I’m not trying to downplay God’s word in knowing God’s word. Okay? I’m a Bible guy from cover to cover. Rarely. I mean, there’s some commands that are general to us, all that it says like go and take the gospel to the ends of the earth, or love your neighbor or forgive your enemies, things like that.

Mm-hmm. But rarely can you open your Bible and you see that it says Jobie tomorrow, I want you to plant a church. Right, right. Well, here’s the thing. What these servants don’t realize is everything that Jesus tells them to do is crazy. Go get the six stone jars. You mean the one that everybody’s been washing their hands in for the last four days?

Yeah. Go fill ’em up with water. It’s still gonna be gross. Boss, go get a ladle. Who has a ladle? We don’t have a ladle. Now dip some out. Cool. All right. Now what? Take it to the masters of ceremonies. Are you trying to punk me? That’s right. What are you doing? That’s right. And little did they know that there was a miracle hanging on the other end of a about five steps of obedience that made no sense in and of themselves.

And yet today, 2000 years ago, we’re still talking about it. So maybe the miracle that you’re looking for is actually on the other side of a step of obedience, but that first step didn’t make sense to you. That’s why you’re not walking in the miracle that Christ has for you. Cuz it doesn’t make sense for you to quit.

Your job doesn’t make sense for you to pull your kids out of that school. Doesn’t make sense for you to sell everything you own, doesn’t make sense for whatever it is. Mm-hmm. Well, that miracle doesn’t happen if those servants don’t do everything Jesus tells them to do. And again, that miracle, it’s a sign.

So what if Jesus can make more wine? That’s not the point. The so what there is, you’re the dirty water. He doesn’t filter it, he doesn’t flavor it. He changes it into something else, something new. He also doesn’t give them out Clorox wipes and say, just, why don’t you just clean up the outside of the jar That that won’t do it.

The so what is. We, when we trust Jesus, we are transformed into something completely different. Yeah. And then the now what? So what is he asking you to do? So do you believe, do you have faith? Are you gonna trust him or are you gonna trust your circumstances? Right

19:41 Chris Grainger
Man, powerful stuff right there. Hey guys, we’ll be

19:44 Pastor Joby Martin
right back.

What if you

19:49 Chris Grainger
could connect with other Christian men, grow in your faith, have resources to help you be the leader God intends you to be. Have live events where you can ask questions and get in the moment answers and be connected to guys 24 7 when you need ’em the most. Does it sound too good to be true?

What’s not? That is what we’ve built within the lion within US community. I’m telling you guys, this is an unbelievable opportunity. Jump in, check us out. We have weekly events that are happening all the time. We have lion lunches. We have our Bible study. We have boot camps that are happening. We have, uh, ask me anything events every month where you get a chance to ask questions directly from guests, from the show.

Guys, it’s access that you cannot get anywhere else. This community is growing. It’s getting bigger and bigger, and it’s being, it’s growing closer together as it grows as well. It’s amazing to see how these guys lean in, support, serve, love, encourage, challenge each other on a daily basis. So guys, if you want a chance just to check it out, hop over to the line within us.

Get a 30 day free trial. Just see what it’s like and you may find what you’ve been looking for. That encouragement, that support, that brotherhood is right here at the click of your finger. I’ll see

21:13 Pastor Joby Martin
you inside the den.

21:19 Chris Grainger
So Phil Jovi, you know, I wanna understand a little bit more on the discipleship part though, because I’m, I’m very curious, this is something I haven’t, I’ve never been able to, to get a, a lot of clarity on. I’d love to know for 1122, when you say, I know you say you gotta come in, you gotta get part of a discipleship group.

What does, just gimme just a high level, what does that look like for, for you guys? Because I know you, you said you don’t do Sunday school, you don’t have that type of stuff. But I love the idea of a discipleship group and I have guys asking me this a lot. So what are they doing? How are they growing as disciples?

Cuz right here to be obedient, like you said, you gotta know the word. So I’d love some of your insight on how you guys are doing it, cuz it sounds like it’s, it’s definitely making some movement.

21:58 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. We’re doing, um, so in disciple groups, what you would do, I mean, if we’re always Sunday school at home, except it’s not just a, like, shotgun approach.

Okay. So they’re sermon based dec bible studies. So everybody’s hearing the sermon on Thursdays or Sundays and then getting in groups during the week and somebody’s home. And going deeper into the sermon, into that one. Okay. And then at the, that, yeah. So we’re all on the same page. Okay. So, you know, like right now we’re in the book of Philippians.

So the whole church is studying Philippians. Um, but even, even in disciple groups, there are these action oriented steps at, at the end of every single week. So there’s that part of it, but then there’s also a significant fellowship part of it. Mm-hmm. There’s like a sharing time, like, how are you doing? How can we pray for one another?

There’s, there’s that kind of thing. So that’s what it is. I mean, it’s, it’s the Acts two model of you break bread together, you study the word together, you pray for one another. And, and that’s how we make disciples. Now, on top of that, and you can go look this up on our website, we have, um, what we call the discipleship journey.

Mm-hmm. And it’s just an assessment test of, so where am I in, in regards to my walk with Christ right now? And then the ultimate question, regardless of where you are, is, so what’s my next step of obedience? Because by definition, you can’t follow Jesus if you quit taking steps. Mm-hmm. And, and that might be, I need to serve, I need to share my faith, I need to develop some, uh, discipleship habits.

I need to step out in generosity. There’s really like six different areas that you may need to like grow in, and they’re just all rooted in what the Bible says the disciple is. Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, just that’s what

23:49 Chris Grainger
we’re doing. It sounds like it’s making such an impact for, for you all. And I just, it just, I was always curious.

I I’m so glad you shared that cuz this is something that, that we do it within line within us on Thursday night. We take the Bible study, we’re digging deep. We’re, we haven’t, we’re not focusing on a sermon, but maybe that’s something we could do moving forward. So I just

24:05 Pastor Joby Martin
love that, that approach. Well if you want it, you can have all our stuff.

I mean, no problem. Amen

24:12 Chris Grainger
man. Amen. So, man, this is great stuff. So, Getting back to, to your, your book. There was one story, it just had me in tears, and I’d love for you to unpack what you can about it, and you probably know where I’m going with this. Uh, but, but it was around Ike Brown, and I think I’m pronouncing this right.

Is it Tako? Is that correct? Ta

24:32 Pastor Joby Martin
Koya. Yep. Okay.

24:32 Chris Grainger
Tako Kreer. And, and that story as a father of four kids, you know, I have a, a 12, a 10 year old, uh, 19 month old and a four month old. So man, we’re, we’re all over the place, right? We, that’s why like, my hair’s turning gray, man. It’s just crazy. But it’s, uh, so as a, as a dad though, I read this story and it just hit me at decor.

It rocked me on how Sergeant Brown responded to this tragedy. And I, I’d just love for you to share what you can, obviously we want, we want you guys to go and get the book regardless, but this, this, this story here, for the dads that are listening, I know a lot of dads listening would definitely, uh, would, would probably impact them.

So would, would you mind sharing with us here?

25:12 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. Um, Ike Brown is a sergeant in the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, and one night he gets a call that his son had been murdered, and, uh, his son was a good kid, wasn’t doing anything wrong or bad, he was just playing Xbox at a bu, Xbox their buddy’s house.

Wrong place, wrong time. Guy walks in, shoots up the house, kills his boy, uh, when they go to trial and Ike sees his son’s murderer. Instead of being filled with hate and rage, he’s just filled with love. And so long story short, he reaches out to his son’s murderer and asked if he could begin a relationship with him.

And Takoi who was in jail said, okay, I just prayed. God, if you’re real, you’ll show yourself. And so through that relationship, Sergeant Ike le led to Coy to Christ and then legally adopted him as his own son. So the first time. Ike told me this story. Um, I had met him through our mutual friend, our sheriff, and when he told me the story, I was like, this is the gospel.

And Ike was like, what do you mean? I’m like, hold on. That a father adopted his son’s murder. That is the gospel. Mm-hmm. God sent his only begotten son, Jesus. We murdered him. And then God, the Father adopts us as his own. And so now, um, I could ta koya like talk to groups and, you know, at-risk kids and football teams.

Now Tao’s gotta do it from prison like via Zoom or Skype, Uhhuh. But Sergeant I goes around and just gives a message of hope. And, and, and Takoi gives a message too. He goes, listen, You don’t want a life. I live, I’m told where to when I can eat and when I can go to sleep. And some of you’re trying to be tough and be like, my boys got my back.

He says, let me tell you, my boys have never visited me. My boys have never sent me a letter. Mm-hmm. You know, if you want freedom, you better know Jesus. And so, um, in the book, uh, actually I just had, I just had Ike share a bunch of it, and we just, we share some of the correspondence between the two of ’em.

And I writes a prayer at the end of one of the chapters. And so it’s way better when you hear it from him, I can’t even fully explain, uh, what God did in Ike’s heart in regards to his adopted son Deko. Yeah.

27:32 Chris Grainger
And I just, I, the, the whole adoption part, that’s just what rocked me. Like, I mean, and I, I’m curious when Ike tells you, when he told you that, was it, uh, was it immediate forgiveness and love?

I mean, when he saw him, was it, or was it a process?

27:46 Pastor Joby Martin
But I

27:47 Chris Grainger
I kind of read it like it was immediate. He

27:50 Pastor Joby Martin
was immediate. He was just, he’s just like us. He, he always thought, if you hurt one of my kids, I will hurt you. Mm-hmm. But I mean, we don’t know what we would do. We think we know what we would do, right.

Whether good or bad. And then he, first time he saw him was in the courtroom, and when he saw him, he said, I was just filled with love. In fact, we’re gonna do a follow up story on Ike, uh, because of the book this Easter. So I don’t know if this is gonna come out, but anybody can go back to Coe 20 two.com and watch our Easter service.

Okay. And see, um, Ike’s like the updated story of this.

28:28 Chris Grainger
Okay. Well, this, this will come out right after, so we’ll make sure to send a show notes for you listeners out there. Be sure to go back and check it out. And I’m telling you guys, if you’re not listening to C Oe two, two every week, you’re missing an opportunity.

It’s the, it’s the podcast that I get the most excited when I finally see that it’s been updated every week. So, you know, go back and just, and,

28:46 Pastor Joby Martin
and binge through it. I mean, Even the, like, I, I’m kind of drifting here, but the sermon series you did on Ruth Man,

28:54 Chris Grainger
and that was several years ago. So impactful. My wife and I listened to those together just about the sovereignty of God, you know, the, the thank you for doing the Song of Solomon series too.

My wife thinks you as well. I think that’s how we got that, that that little four month old. But anyway, that’s another story. But man, it’s just, it’s good stuff, man.

29:13 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. Well I appreciate it. Yeah, I, I, I mostly just teach through books of the Bible and every sermon I’ve ever preach here is there, and it’s all free.

And you know, one of the, one of the redeeming qualities of the internet is that, that there’s a whole bunch of discipleship material out there available and free. And that’s why we put it out there. We hope that it’s helpful for people’s walk with the Lord.

29:34 Chris Grainger
Well, it definitely is. It definitely is. And, and I know throughout this book, if anything is possible, you talk about the, the, and one reason I love listening to you as well, cause I’ve learned so much about the Greek and the Hebrew, but you talk about the word of Stu a lot.

And you, you talk about the contrast in believing in something and believing that’s something, and for me, that just resonated. So I’d love for you to share your difference, difference between the two. You know, when you look at, at, at how, how often men in particular get that believing in and believing that crossed up.

30:04 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. I honestly, I mean listen man, the Bible translator guys are way, they’re infinitely more, the more intelligent than I am, particularly in regards to the original languages of he of Greek and Hebrew. But like in John three 16, right? For God’s love the world to give his only begotten son to whoo, whosoever would tuo mm-hmm in him would not perish but have everlasting life.

The fact that it got translated, believe, man, it’s been a curse in the South cuz you, everybody thinks they believe, right? They believe in God, like they believe in s e c football and nascar, man, you know, the Easter Bunny and the Second Amendment. And so, You can believe that something exists, but that’s not the word Tuo.

Tuo is trust. Mm-hmm. Tuo is commit your whole life into, so one of the illustrations I used in the book, man, is this, uh, I can’t remember his name off the top of my head, but there was a guy that stretched a high wire across the Niagara Falls. Yeah, yeah. And he went back and forth, back and forth, and a crowd gathers and he says, how many of how many of ’em believe that I can carry this wheelbarrow across?

And everybody raises their hand. He carries the wheelbarrow back and forth. How many of you think I could carry a person in the wheelbarrow? A bunch of people raised their hand. Okay. They believe that he can’t, he says, who wants to get in the wheelbarrow? No one. So no one passed. But a bunch of people believed that that’s the difference.

Like I believe that George Washington was our first president, but I don’t believe in him. Like, I believe in Jesus. Mm-hmm. Um, I think the word trust. Would be a better way to think about it. Okay. In the same way that you are Ewing in the chair that you’re in right now. Mm-hmm. And I know it, and I don’t know how much you know about the chair.

I don’t know if you examined the sturdiness of the chair. I don’t know if you know anything about the chair or what the materials used for the chair were. I don’t know if you know the history of the chair. I don’t even know if you can remember the precise moment when you decided to trust the chair with the weight of your body.

Mm-hmm. But based on your current posture, I am 100% convinced that you are currently Ewing in that chair. Amen. That’s what faith is. That’s what belief is. Right. Like at some point you gotta decide the difference between, all right. I believe that Jesus came and died on the cross and was resurrected on the third day.

Mm-hmm. But have I, have I transferred the weight of my life to him? Do I trust in him? Or am I still trusting in me? Right. Right. I mean, I mean, the difference between the religious people and save people is that religion is what must I do. Right. And save people are, I believe it is finished right. Man, this is, this is

32:57 Chris Grainger
great.

Now, when I usually talk through this, this area, I always bring up the airplane analogy, you know, cause I, I don’t like flying. I’m not a big fan of it, but, you know, you can see the planes fly, all take off and they’re, you know, I believe that they’re going to fly. But until I actually put my butt in that chair and that thing takes off at that point, I’m, I, I’m in there.

Right. That’s my belief in That’s right. That it’s flying. So, uh, you know, and I still,

33:19 Pastor Joby Martin
and, and so, and here’s the thing. Here’s why. When, when, um, like when the Bible says, you know, mustard, sea size faith will make the mountain move. Mm-hmm. It’s not the amount of faith you have, it’s the object of your faith that matters.

So you could have a hundred percent faith that you could fly. And you jump off a building and you’ll die. In fact, I talked about this in the first book. There was this French seamstress that made like this coat that was supposed to turn into a parachute, and he was so convinced that it would work that he climbed at the top of the Eiffel Tower and jumped off with that coat, hit the ground and died.

Mm-hmm. It was one of the very first videos ever made, and it is currently on YouTube. I mean, it’s like from the early 19 hundreds in France. It’s crazy. Okay. Yeah. So he had absolute faith in himself. He’s dead. Then you can see, um, my son showed me these YouTube videos of these glass bridges in China. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen these things.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Ridiculous. So there’re thousands of feet over these canyons. Yeah. And here’s what happens. People walk out there and they scream and they cry and they fall down because they have, they only had enough faith to take that first step to get on the bridge. Well, they’re almost non-faith in this st.

Sturdy structure. Keeps them alive. And this enormous amount of faith in that jacket from the French man led to his death. Yeah. So when people have just enough faith to surrender their life to Jesus, even if they’ve got a thousand questions, then God will save them. Right. Right. I mean that was, that was the whole chapter on the feeding of the 5,000.

Right. In John chapter six, um, Jesus says, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part with me. Right. And then all the people started leaving cause they were like, we don’t know what you’re talking about. Yeah. And he could have explained himself. Right. He, I mean, we know what he is talking about post resurrection.

He’s talking about the gospel. Right. He’s talking about communion as a picture of the gospel. Unless you receive my life, death and resurrection, then you got no part with me. Yeah. But he doesn’t, he says, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, can you imagine if you’re in the audience and you’re taking notes and be like, did he say flesh?

He didn’t say, he said, fish, come on. That’s right. That’s right. The Jews, we can’t even eat pig. We surely can’t eat the prophet. Right. And he lets everybody leave. And so even without explaining himself, then he looks at Peter and says, do you wanna leave too? And the reason he ask him is, cuz Peter wants to leave.

Peter’s thinking, I have made a terrible choice here in my career. I should go back to fishing. You know? Mm-hmm. And Peter’s answer is a faith-filled answer. Peter says, all right, even without you explaining to me what you’re talking about, where else am I gonna go? That’s it. Because you’re the only one that offers eternal life.

So you just pick up your doubts, you pick up your unanswered questions, you follow after Jesus. You do that long enough, all your doubts go away.

36:11 Chris Grainger
Amen. It is so ironic. I’m having goosebumps. Cause like every morning, pastor Joie, we go in at the line with Dennis in our community and I read scripture and we’re, and we’re going through John and I literally read this morning that account of John six, and that was verse at Harpond, I think it’s like 66 or something like that, 66, 67, where Peter goes through and, and says that you know that, you know, where else am I gonna go, Lord?

You, you, you are, you are the son of God. You’re it. I mean, you, you are the answer. And that was my whole point of when I was talking to the guys this morning, I’m like, look, this flesh, this blood, that stuff is gruesome and Jesus let it hang there, but we know what it is now post resurrection. But in the moment, man, that was hard.

That was probably hard and that’s

36:50 Pastor Joby Martin
why many of it said walked away. So what I’m in the book, um, while I was writing it, my best friend died. Mm-hmm. Me and I mean a guy named Brad Boy, and I mean, I got a picture of him right here. Keep it on my desk right here. Boom. There you go. I led this dude to Christ on a mission trip, baptized him in the water.

Uh, he’s a general contractor and he built all of our churches in the, in the chapter that I write on the four guys lowering the friend through the wa through the roof. Yep. He was one of my corner holders, man. And we were on this stag hunting trip in, um, in Scotland. And we go up in the Highlands to chase stag, and he never makes a bat.

Okay, so, and, and the Lord has not seen it fit to tell me why he would take my friend Brad. There’s a long list of people I would take out right now. Brad wouldn’t be on my list. I mean, here’s a guy that’s all he wants to do is build churches. All he is trying to do is help people know Jesus. He was fit, he was in shape.

Like, I have no idea, but here’s what I know. He’s the only one that offers eternal life. Yeah. And so I’m just gonna pick up my unanswered questions and follow after Jesus. And here’s what I am convinced of that now I see dimly and one day I will see clearly. So there will come a day where I step into eternity and he lets me see all things and know all things.

And then I’ll be like, there you go, Lord. You did it again. Right? You did it again. You your way was better than mine once again. Right. And a part of reason I wanted do that in this book on miracles. First of all, I think the Evangelical Church needs a gospel-centered look on the miraculous. Because most books about miracles are all about the miracles.

And I want, I want people to understand, even if you don’t get your miracle met, I want you to meet the maker of miracles.

38:52 Chris Grainger
Mm-hmm. Amen. First of all, I just wanna say too, man, I, I’m sorry, I, I read that. I can’t imagine, I’m so sorry for your loss there. And, and only thing I, I know, you know, I’ve held, I’ve held a lifeless child in my arms too, my little baby, and there’s no pain, like hip pain.

But I tell you one thing I trust in the sovereignty of God, and, and that’s just it, you know, i’s I don’t have the answers. I’m never gonna have those answers. You probably won’t side of heaven either with your friend, but man in those, those moments of hurt, we can just trust in his sovereignty. And I think, I just feel sorry for the people who aren’t believers, but I can’t imagine how you go through this life and walk through the pain that it is, and you don’t have Christ to lean on.

I just, it, it, it’s, it’s pretty sad.

39:33 Pastor Joby Martin
Uh, yeah. You don’t do it very well. Which is also a part of the reason I wrote the chapter on the raising of Lazarus, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, the shortest verse of the Bible, Luke, I mean, John 1135, Jesus wept, right? Lets us know that man. When it hurts, you’re supposed to cry.

Yeah. Like Jesus knows how this story’s not, this event’s gonna end. Yeah. I mean, logically speaking, it doesn’t make sense for him to cry. What, what’s it like? What’s it gonna miss Lazarus like 45 minutes an hour, hour 15? I don’t know. He knows how this thing’s gonna end because he says this will not end in death.

He already knows he’s going to draw Lazarus out of the grave. And yet, here’s what we know, man. We serve a God that, first of all, we serve a God that cries. I mean, just think about that for a second. Yeah. Yeah. But he weeps with those who weep. He enters into our moments of hurt and pain and cries with us.

And one of the things that I’ve found particularly among Christians in trying to handle grief is they will say the dumbest stuff, man, like being at funerals. They’ll be like, you shouldn’t be sad. You should be happy. Because I’m like, hold on man. Don’t say dumb stuff like that. Um, Ecclesiastes says that there is a season under heaven for every everything, and then it lists a bunch of emotions.

Mm-hmm. And 30 years of ministry. What I have seen is when it’s time to cry. If you don’t cry, then when it’s time to dance, you can’t dance. And when it’s time to mourn, if you don’t mourn, when it’s time to rejoice, you can’t rejoice. And when it’s time to be sad, if you can’t be sad, then when it’s time to laugh, you can’t laugh.

Yeah. And so emotions make horrible decision makers. Yeah. But they’re great tools to navigate life. So I have cried my face off over my buddy, but I have no doubt. That Jesus is sovereign over all the circumstances and he’s my Lord and savior.

41:32 Chris Grainger
Amen. Amen. Hey guys,

41:34 Pastor Joby Martin
we’ll take a break. Hey bro. I didn’t know, I didn’t know you lost a, a child, bro.

I just, yeah. There is no pain. Like kid bang.

41:40 Chris Grainger
Yeah. I mean, she was still born man, at, at her due date. And, uh, so I did a whole episode on, on what it’s like to be in a quad delivery room. And I mean, she was nine pounds. She was a beautiful little girl, man. And, and you know, there’s just, there’s just no pain like it, you know?

And uh,

41:56 Pastor Joby Martin
but then I just,

41:58 Chris Grainger
but I trust in the sovereignty, me and my wife, we still weep over that, right? We still weep together and that’s why I tell guys all the time, quit trying to be macho man and actually grieve with your wife. I, it’s okay. You know, she needs to see those tears cuz that’s how, how, how the healing happens.

And, and I know we just, we both just trust in his sovereignty in it. And it’s actually allowed us to be able to, to counsel and help many others who’ve walked through similar, you know, child loss and things like that. And, I never, I never wanted it, but I’m gonna use it to glorify him while I’m here.

That’s all I can do.

42:30 Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, that’s all you can do. Amen.

42:33 Chris Grainger
Hey, you wanna take a quick break guys?

42:37 Pastor Joby Martin
Guys out here

42:38 Chris Grainger
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So go to the line within us, click on get a 30 day free trial and start today. And guys, I’ll see you inside the D

44:11 Pastor Joby Martin
So, so Pastor Jovi, I’ve

44:12 Chris Grainger
been talking a lot lately in our church and teaching on this, the, the, the account of the pool of Bethesda. And I love telling that story. I think the Chosen did a great job of of, of actually showing that, you know, that story, the way that they de depicted it as well, cuz it talks about the healing and, you know, so many times we just missed that healing that he can provide.

Cuz I love how Jesus is just asking like, do you want to be healed? And all that brother wanted was to just, Hey, just get me to the water man. I just need to get in there when it’s stirred up, everybody else is stepping over top of me. Just get me there. And I just relate that to so many things that, that we try to, to co you know, to, to heal with ourselves in this world.

You know, pills and drugs and sex and money and all the stuff that we just point to the wrong stuff. And I can’t imagine for you, you know, you’re up there weekend, week out, you’re preaching your face off. I mean, you’re just pouring the spirit out. You know, I love how you say sometimes, you know, you’ll say things and you know, the, the, you got the people that saying Amen and mm-hmm.

They’re going in Twitter and they’re, they’re firing out the firefighter. But then right. Two, two, damn below ’em is the guy who looks just absolutely miserable. So I’m just curious from your standpoint, from someone who spends the time preaching the word in the ministry, you know, you got people who just refuse it right in front of you, man.

I mean, h how do you deal with that? Cause I, I got members of my community the same way they, they wanna share, but they’re not seeing the response. And I’m like, look, it’s not just you, this God has to do the work, but you just gotta be obedient in sharing your story. So love to get your take on this.

45:42 Pastor Joby Martin
Um, theologically in regards to, so theology, I understand that faith is a gift from God until he calls their name.

They ain’t gonna have ears to hear anyway. However, Jesus asked this man the most important question, which I think we read right by, and we think, what an obvious question. The brother’s been here for 38 years. Of course he wants to be healed, but Jesus says, do you want to be healed? Right? The reality is, the answer for a lot of people is, I don’t, I don’t wanna be healed.

Why is that though? I don’t wanna be healed because, I think sometimes people identify with their pain. Okay. You know, and they’re, I mean, it’s like a, in order for them to, to change and grow or mature, it requires them to let go of this pain. And a lot of times people can so identify with that like, like the pain in their life.

They get this victimhood mentality and they’re like a baby in a messy diaper. They’re like, I know it’s nasty, but it’s warm and it’s mine. I’ll just sit in it. Don’t take it away. Okay. Right. I think another big reason is that that’s it. People have been defined by that pain, like, like I am the person who was cheated on.

I am the person that, you know, am addicted. I am, whatever that thing is. And then I think a big reason is if we take away, like if somebody gets healed, then they won’t have any excuse for their bad behavior anymore. Mm. Mm-hmm. Like, the reason I get to talk this way is don’t you know the pain I’ve been in?

Right? The reason I get to act this way or drink this much or abuse these pills or be mean to you, it’s not my fault. Something has happened to me. And then what excuse does a healed person have for their bad behavior? They actually have to own the behavior. Right? Right. And so I, I think there’s a lot of people, they, they, they don’t want to be healed.

And some people, man, there’s like some, there’s some like self punishment that comes as a lack of self-forgiveness. Okay. That, that sometimes people, people’s standard or forgiveness is higher than Christ’s and they don’t think that what he did on the cross was, well, it may be enough for me to be forgiven with God, but I can’t, forgive me of what I’ve done.

Mm-hmm. And that’s, that’s a real, I mean, there’s, there’s some like selfish idolatry, fake humility there. Yeah. And, and the blood of Jesus is what says people free to be forgiven and healed. And you see, even in this account, man, the guy was looking in the wrong place. You know, in, in the sv that fourth verse I think, isn’t there, the one about the angels stirring up the water.

Oh, really? Okay. Which is great. It’s great. Um, it was in the ear, it was in some of the later manuscripts, but not in the earliest manuscript. So the, the people that do the E S V, they just put a footnote and they just denote that. So what we do know is for sure people at the Pool of Bethesda thought that was a reality, that an angel comes and stirs up the water and if I get in first mm-hmm.

Well, what’s happening is man, they’re just, like you said, you said it before, they’re looking to the wrong place for healing and Jesus shows up and he is like, healing’s not down there man. Right. Healing is standing right here in your face. Standing right here in front of you. Yeah. Um, and, and because. I mean, listen, man, I don’t have the patience of Jesus.

Obviously none of us do. But if I came up here and asked the dude, do you wanna be healed? And he immediately answered with excuses. Dude, excuses and complaining to me is like, kryptonite, man. I would’ve been like, all right, forget you, man. You’re dead to me. Anybody else wanna get healed? This guy right here just wants to wh and complain about what he can’t do.

All right? Mm-hmm. And yet Jesus shows this unbelievable compassion and heals him anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It makes

49:32 Chris Grainger
me wonder, too, how did he pick that guy? I mean, why? I mean, obviously that he’s been there 38 years. I, I, I just relate. He was so broken, so desperate. I mean, when you’re there at the pool of Bethesda, you’ve tried all the medicine, you’ve tried everything that you could think of, like the, you’re, to me, I read it.

Maybe I’m wrong, that you’re at the end of your rope. You just, this is the, this is the la this is the Hail Mary I just got, I’m gonna try to get in this water when it’s stirred up. Cause that’s the only hope that I have. And I see so many people walking around this world right now. I can go out to dinner tonight with my wife.

And we can sit down, we can see people in that same situation and that, and that’s,

50:05 Pastor Joby Martin
it’s really sad. Yeah. It’s interesting that the Bible uses the word invalid. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, in English, that just breaks down to invalid. And there’s so many people that feel invalid, like not valuable. Right.

Worthless. And the gospel is, bro, you ain’t worthless. You’re an image bearer of God. Put your faith in Jesus. And you are an adopted son of God, a co-heir with Christ. Roman says that you’re more than a conqueror. What even is that Right? There’s like a conqueror and you’re more, I, I can tell you what it is.

If you’re just in the army and you conquer, you get the land or you get the spoils. When you are more than a conquer, you’re a son of the king. So after you conquer the new land, you get to go home with dad, who is your king, and live in the castle. That’s more than a conqueror. Hmm. So that’s who you are.

You are not invalid. And so what a lot of people do in our society, man, is they will believe the lies of condemnation of the enemy. And they will look at themselves in the mirror and say, you are invalid. Yeah. Because of, because the enemy is trying to define me by what I have done. Right. Or sometimes e people do it even in their own chasing of success and they think I got this.

Yeah. And when they hit rock bottom to realize I ain’t got this, then they say, I must be an invalid, not in the physical sense, but I must be invalid. Yeah. But the Bible says in First Corinthians six, but you don’t, you wanna know how valid you are. You are not your own. You were bought with a price. Now he goes on to say, so honor our God with your body.

But let’s just stop right there, there. How valuable are you to God? The way we find out something’s value is what? Is somebody willing to pay for it? I mean, this is the gospel according to eBay, right? Like you might think that side behind you, the lion with within is worth a million dollars in your heart.

We’ll put it on eBay. We’ll find out how much it’s worth. If somebody’s like, I’ll give you 20 bucks and I don’t care what you feel about it, it’s worth 20 bucks, right? God looked at you and said, you know what? I’ll pay for you the blood of my very own son, Jesus Christ. You were not your own. You were bought at a price.

Now, the reason that he did it is not because you were valuable. He validated and valued you because God is love and put his love on you. But that’s how valuable you are right now. You are a possession of the most high God, and he paid with his very own son. Yeah, that’s what Jesus is saying to this man, cuz later he chases him down in the temple, which is pretty cool cause this dude’s never been able to go to the temple.

Because you couldn’t be, you couldn’t be an invalid and go into the temple. So his first thing he does is run to church to worship. That’s cool. And then Jesus chases him down there and says, Hey man, um, don’t keep doing this. Or even worse things will happen. You know what’s worse? Hell yeah. You think 38 years by that pool is bad.

Hell’s worse. So I think the reason Jesus does this is cuz he wasn’t, Jesus wasn’t satisfied healing his physical body. He needed to make the man whole. Right. He needed to heal the guy’s soul, forgive him of his sins, and point him to eternity. Yeah.

53:22 Chris Grainger
That’s, it’s so good, man. And I, and just to, I hear it all the time with, with so many guys in particular, that, that, that negative self-talk, like you were talking earlier, you know, we’re, when we get in the mirror, man, we gotta, we gotta caution ourselves of what we.

We can’t just let that stuff run wild, man. It’s, it’s from Satan. If it’s tearing down, it’s from Satan. If it’s building up, it’s from the spirit, man. We got to just, just rebuke those thoughts. And it’s so hard. And I think the world now, post Covid is even worse. Man. I just, I, I, I hear guys all the time, I’m not good.

Invalid. Not invalid. I hear all the time. Jovi. So think the more and more. So what do you do?

53:55 Pastor Joby Martin
What do you do when you get those lies of condemnation? I start,

54:00 Chris Grainger
actually, man, I started uh, this recently. It’s a new tip. I say a, I say the word nope,

54:05 Pastor Joby Martin
out loud. Nope, not right now.

54:08 Chris Grainger
And then I replace that with, alright, here’s an affirmation.

I’m blood ball B son King, you know, I have a gift to podcasting. Like, I’ll, I’ll compare myself to, you know, we were talking about to other

54:19 Pastor Joby Martin
podcasters. And I, I’ll be like,

54:20 Chris Grainger
Nope, they have a gift. I have a gift and I’m gonna use my gift to glorify him. So my wife now, she hears me in the house, say, Nope. She’s like, she just knows what’s up.

She’s like, all right, he’s rebuking something. But I just think I gotta call it out and recognize it versus just trying to keep it to myself and suppress it, or I bring it to my brothers at the, and within our line, within this community, like, look guys, I’m struggling with this. Let’s talk about it. What do you think?

And I think just actually verbalizing it, writing it down, little simple things like that takes the power from Satan. Man. I just really think it takes the power from him. Yeah. And then as men, we can actually lean in and make something happen with

54:55 Pastor Joby Martin
that. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I wouldn’t say or, and I would do and Yes, sir.

But that’s, that’s great, man. That’s, that’s exactly what you need to do. Um, and then one of the things I’ve, I’ve always encouraged folks to do is when the enemy was tempting Jesus, he had it is writtens every single time. And so, you know, Romans 12 says, don’t be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Well, the pattern of this world is, To be full of fear and self-loathing and self-doubt and that kind of stuff. And, and so you gotta identify what that enemy is telling you. Take off the old and put on the new, which is the reality of Jesus. So you better have some Bible verses ready to roll so it is written right.

So Romans eight, one is one I go to all the time when I’m feeling the whispers of condemnation. Therefore, now there is no condemnation for those during Christ Jesus. I’m at the end of Romans eight. Uh, I I go to, no, no, no. We are more than conquerors. What can separate us from the love of God? You know, go there some places like that, and then you are right.

Um, only gross things grow in the dark, and so you need to tell some brothers out loud. Some stuff that’s just could be embarrassing to you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, there was a, there was a little recent, this is like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, I just got back from Israel. And got covid somewhere. And I hadn’t, I was like the one guy who hadn’t gotten it yet, man.

I didn’t feel I had a little cold, no big deal. But I didn’t feel like I could walk around the office and get everybody sick knowing that I had it. Right. Right. Well, I missed, I didn’t preach Thursday. I had a whole retreat I was supposed to run. I couldn’t go to, couldn’t preach Sunday morning. And I, it’s not like I’m laying in bed feeling sorry for myself.

I’m just isolated, kind of. I feel fine, man. I woke up that Sunday morning and was overwhelmed with the sense of failure. You failure. And so, and by every measure, I’m not a failure, you know what I mean? Got a, I love Jesus, he loves me. I got a great wife, great kids, all the things. But bro, you gotta go to war in that moment.

Right. And even though I don’t even agree with it theologically, he still comes after you that way. Yeah, because. The schemes of the enemy is a mind game. It’s a dirty war campaign of the mind, bro. It’s a misinformation campaign. So for sure I rejected it and, and quoted bible verses, but I didn’t really feel like I had a grasp on it until I got to a couple brothers, guys, two guys on staff, and I just said, guys, I need to just tell you this out loud, right?

There’s something about confessing Yep to one another and not even sin, I don’t think I sin just not even confessing our sins to one another, but just confessing struggles, confessing, like, yep, here’s why I am right now. Um, yeah, but it, it is, it’s a real thing man. And this past that the enemy wants us to think we’re invalid.

You’re right

58:00 Chris Grainger
man. And there’s power in that. I mean those, it was written, I talk about that a lot cuz I, again, I use a lot of your stuff and, and I think for me, when I can actually speak it to my wife or I’m speaking to the, to those guys in my life, it just takes the power away. And so many times, man, Like quit holding our head and shame there is no condemnation, like you said.

And just, just, just own it. And then, okay, now let’s unpack this and let’s, let’s speak some realities into it. And I think when we do that, man, we just take the power away. So man, this is, this is great, great insight here and I’m so thankful for that. It is written as I have and I’m so thankful for the, it is written that you teach me each and every week, uh, pretty much every day.

But, uh, it, it is good stuff. So I know we’re getting kind of close to the end of our time. I, I’m curious, um, so for the tomb is if the, if the tomb is empty for that book, there was a study guide that came out and I, I’m sure you had a, a hand in that, but me and my discipleship group, we meet on Saturday mornings.

We’ve been working through that for the last man four months. Like it takes us a while cuz we’ll, we’ll camp out on a section of scripture and we’ll just, you know, you challenge us and we’ll, we have these, these holy moments where we’re just digging. So, you know, is there gonna be a study guide with anything as possible?

And, and how much harder was it to write this one than it is written? Or was it, uh, than, uh, I’m sorry. Then anything is possible. Was, was it, was that easier to write or the second time round or,

59:18 Pastor Joby Martin
or what’s going on there? Uh, first of all, there is a study guide. Um, yes, it’ll be very similar to the first one and it’s available right now, so you can, can just figure it up wherever books are sold.

Um, and, and, you know, have like a, a partner on this, Charles Martin is a no relation at our church. Nope, no relation. Um, we, so when we got finished with, if the tomb is empty, we took about two weeks and just started on this one because we saw it as like one continuing mm-hmm. Reality, you know? And so, um, it wasn’t easier or harder necessarily, it was just all, we just kept going.

Yeah. So if we could have done one 500 page book, we would’ve just done that or 600 page book, but. So that’s, that’s kind of the way we think of it. In fact, that’s why the, uh, the covers look similar, you know? Yeah. So it looks like a two-part series cuz it really is.

1:00:12 Chris Grainger
Yeah. Well I’m so excited that it’s gonna have a study guy, so I’m gonna have go get that now.

And for, for my discipleship group. So I got, I got two Daniels, I got, I got a Michael, I got Ethan Dillon. You guys get ready. We’re gonna be digging into this one. Looking forward to that. Good. I’m telling you man, if anything is possible, guys, if you haven’t put that yet, I’m gonna put that in the show notes too.

Go get the copy of that book too, cuz that that book has really impacted your, just my personal growth in my discipleship group’s growth. And get the study guys, cuz I, I don’t know how you guys comes up with these questions, but I’m gonna tell you what, some of ’em just rock us back on our heels and we’re, we just have this moment

1:00:48 Pastor Joby Martin
of like

1:00:49 Chris Grainger
45 seconds of legit, we don’t know what to say and then all of a sudden somebody was just, maybe he means this and that.

Just, you know, we’re off to the races

1:00:57 Pastor Joby Martin
at that point, man. Yeah. Good man. Good. Well, pastor Joe,

1:01:03 Chris Grainger
look, I wanna do a quick lightning round with you if you don’t, if you got time, let’s, let’s jump into that real quick, just a little bit of fun here at the end. We like to do that on line with Dennis. Are you good with that?

Yes, sir. Let’s go. All right, cool. So, I, I’m curious from you, what’s your

1:01:15 Pastor Joby Martin
favorite hobby? Hunting? I, I knew the answer.

1:01:18 Chris Grainger
I just wanted you, I,

1:01:19 Pastor Joby Martin
I wanted the listeners to know that’s all

1:01:20 Chris Grainger
it was. Now I am, I don’t know this one. I think I do. And, but I’m gonna go ahead and let you answer. What’s your favorite food?

1:01:27 Pastor Joby Martin
Steak. Medium the way God intended. Bacon rat, filet. That’s it, man. Hey, Jesus died for that. You realize that? That’s not all he died for, but it was included in the new Covenant pre crucifixion resurrection. No bacon, no. Medium rare. Got it. Post resurrection new Covenant Bacon Rap Filet. That’s it. Medium rap.

That is it, baby.

1:01:49 Chris Grainger
I’m coming to Jacksonville. I’m buy, that’s

1:01:50 Pastor Joby Martin
gospel meat.

1:01:52 Chris Grainger
I’m buying you a bacon rap filet in Jacksonville. One day that is on, that is on the bucket list. So, so I’m curious now, what if you had to eat, it’s the same thing every day. Is it that bacon rap filet? Is there something else that you would go to as a, as a, as a, as a go-to

1:02:05 Pastor Joby Martin
meal?

Nah, I would do the bacon rapa every day. Gotcha, brother.

1:02:10 Chris Grainger
Gotcha. Okay. What’s, uh, when you think about, when you think about God, what’s the favorite thing

1:02:15 Pastor Joby Martin
that comes to mind? Uh, his presence. Presence. Okay. Yeah, man. I mean, ultimately that is what we are seeking. Yeah. Yeah. Like what, what he, what makes heaven, heaven is the presence of God.

What, when Adam was created and God breathed the breath of life into Adam’s nost. The Bible wants you to know it was in his nostrils. It was really close. Yeah. So when the very first man opens his eyes, he is face-to-face with his heavenly Father. And that’s what every single one of us are created for.

This is why when you have babies, bro, you like hold you, like, smelled our heads and get him real close and say dumbs weird stuff. Like, I just eat you up. Right? All right. And your baby loves it. Your baby is like right there. Yeah. That’s what you were created for. I can’t wait. I just want to, I just wanna see him.

I want to be with like, more so than I can now in this sinful world, in this broken body. Yeah. Just be with him.

1:03:13 Chris Grainger
Yeah. Amen. So when you think about Satan, you know, what’s your least favorite

1:03:18 Pastor Joby Martin
thing there? Um, how, how tricky he can be. Okay. I mean, I wish he would just have the devil horns and the pitchfork and, you know, It’d be easier, wouldn’t it?

Like I wish, I mean, I see Peter says that the enemy prowls around like a roaring lion. I wish he would just walk down the middle of the aisle and be the roaring lion. Cuz then you could be like, there he is. Mm-hmm. But man, he’s so good. I mean, he’s had a lot of practice, right? He’s had it forever. Yeah.

Like at least since creation began forever. Um, taking good things of God and twisting them to trick us. Mm-hmm. And even though he is only got three lures in his tackle box, lu the eyes, lut of the flesh and the pride of life, he still gets me with ’em. Yeah. Because he twist them man. He’s just so good.

Right. He’s so good at what he does. And so, I mean, he is like a slight of hand magician, but he ain’t got no magic. It’s all

1:04:21 Chris Grainger
tricks. That’s it. That’s it. Well, let’s, let’s do, let’s do one, one or two more. So what’s, what’s a new habit, pastor Jovi, that, that you’re trying to create? Or maybe something recently that you’ve, that you started doing.

1:04:34 Pastor Joby Martin
Um, I started logging my food and water intake. Really? Yeah. What’s your

1:04:41 Chris Grainger
daily goal for

1:04:42 Pastor Joby Martin
water? Oh, it’s too much here. I got it on this app right here. I can hardly ever make it. Um, 130 fluid ounces. Okay.

1:04:54 Chris Grainger
So we, we,

1:04:55 Pastor Joby Martin
I did a, a child, I usually get about a hundred. About

1:04:58 Chris Grainger
a hundred. Okay. So we did a challenge at the line within us in January, I believe, and part of it was drink a gallon a day.

And that’s I think a hundred What? 128 ounces? Uh, so sounds about right. So I, I hammer 128 ounces a day and, but, uh, you know, the bathroom’s close by, if you know what I’m saying. I mean, that’s a lot

1:05:18 Pastor Joby Martin
of water. Yeah, totally. It’s a lot of water. Yeah. But I used to, um, in my twenties and partway through my thirties, I like competed in body building.

It was mega, strict, probably more. There was no doubt it was an idol in my life at times. Yeah. You know, and, and at this point in my life, I don’t care about that at all. But I do need to be like, be a good steward of what, of my body for the sake of health. I wanna pastor to this church for a long time and Amen.

You know, just, just so I really, my fitness goals at this point is don’t be fat and then around the holidays, don’t get too fat and buy Christmas, don’t look fat in your clothes, you know? And then beginning of the year, just get back to don’t

1:06:02 Chris Grainger
be fat. That’s right. I like how you say your way, you’re aging like milk, just white

1:06:06 Pastor Joby Martin
and chunky.

No man. Yeah. Just white and chunky. Ain’t no doubt about it. What

1:06:11 Chris Grainger
Pastor Joe, what’s a habit? I love the habit, man. That’s a good, because we talk about health a lot, man. So that’s a great one. And I do the same thing. I don’t log it as off as I should, but, you know, last question for you. You know, what’s one thing you hope the listeners out there today, remember from our

1:06:25 Pastor Joby Martin
conversation, pastor Jobby, uh, that you were built for the presence of God?

So lean into that. Do whatever stirs your heart towards that. Kill anything in your life that prevents that, but that, that’s what you were created for.

1:06:40 Chris Grainger
Amen. Amen. And, and where do you want ’em to go to connect with you to church at 1122? I mean, we’ll make sure it’s in the show notes, but anywhere in particular you want them to go to get everything.

1:06:50 Pastor Joby Martin
Uh, you can go to my website, jo martin.com. That’s a new, just like currently, we’ll point you to the books and all that kind of stuff. Uh, COE 22 is our church website. You can get all of our resources there for free.

1:07:02 Chris Grainger
Amen. Amen. We’ll have that stuff synced up in the show notes for you listeners out there.

So, pastor Job, anything else you’d like to share with us on the line within us today?

1:07:11 Pastor Joby Martin
Nah, man. That’s it. Thanks so much. Thanks for all your encouraging words, bro. They, uh, they mean more than you think. Most people in ministry that I know are starving for encouragement. They are not drunk on compliments.

Well,

1:07:24 Chris Grainger
I can tell you one thing between you and I mean, we’ve had Pastor Ryan Brit on the show as well. I mean, I just. I, I’ve grown so close with you guys. I feel like I know you guys. I listened to you so much and I point all of our listeners, uh, to, to you and the, uh, c o e two too. Man, I think you guys are just, it’s a movement for all people to discover a deep relationship with Jesus Christ, right?

So let’s just do it. Let’s do it.

1:07:45 Pastor Joby Martin
Amen.

Let me ask

1:07:49 Chris Grainger
you a real personal question. Who are your five

1:07:51 Pastor Joby Martin
closest friends? Are they pulling you closer to God or further away?

1:07:56 Chris Grainger
I know some of many guys that said, man, I ain’t got five

1:07:58 Pastor Joby Martin
friends.

1:07:59 Chris Grainger
You know? Okay, I get it, man. It’s hard. It’s hard to make those true connections. So what we did at the line with Innocence, we started a community.

That community is where brotherhood happens. It’s where guys come together. So guys, if you, if you’re struggling right now, if you feel a little bit isolated or alone, you need to hop in the. You’re gonna find brothers there that are gonna come alongside you, that want to help you. Wherever you’re at, wherever you’re at, guys, don’t think you have to be some theologian to join.

No, we’re all just regular men who want to deepen our relationship with Jesus Christ to ultimately be the leader God intends us to be. That’s what it’s about. So hop over to the community guys. We have a lot of live events as well, so you can hop in, you can kind of just sit there and watch. You don’t have to really jump in.

If that’s not who you are right now, hop in on a lion lunch. Maybe go to one of our Bible studies that we have going on. Maybe check out some of our courses that we have available, or ask me anything. Events where we have previous guests come in and share their expertise. All this is available within the community that is part of the membership.

So if it sounds like there’s something you wanna start, God, 30 day free trial, just jump in, see if it serves you. If it does, guys, we would love to have you in our community. As we’re growing, we’re serving, we’re helping others be the leader that God intends them to be, and I know we can help you be the leader God wants you to be as well.

So again, hop over to the line within.us. Click on join from that 30 day free trial so you can get started today. I look forward to seeing you inside

1:09:37 Pastor Joby Martin
the Den

Guys, was I right or was I right? I’m

1:09:43 Chris Grainger
serious. I mean, I’m not br, I’m not, I’m not trying to sit to boast here, but I, I told you going into this, this was awesome. And Pastor Jobby, he brought the hammer. I mean, it was awesome. Learn so much every time we get to deal with him. And I’m telling you guys, that’s, that is the one a, uh, podcast every week.

Well, I would say two. So I get really excited when Unashamed comes out. I’m just must admit I’m an unashamed, just I’m part of Unashamed Nation. But Pastor Jovi church, 1122, whenever his sermons come out every week, some weeks, y’all listen to him two or three times, but there’s not a week that goes by. I don’t listen to at least three to five actual sermons of his, and I’m Beck.

I mean, I’m in 20 16, 20 15. At this point in the, in the archives, guys, you wanna grow closer to Christ. You wanna have that deeper relationship. You need to listen Pastor Jovi and make him part of your regular everyday walk. I’m just, it’s just, he feeds me so much every day. So to be able to actually, you know, tell him that he, he is my mentor.

That was a big moment for me. And guys, I just prayed that it helps you. And I really want you to thank through this week. Do you actually believe, do you believe that anything is possible? Now, that’s a question you need to know. You need to ask that guys, because it’s not, I’m not talking about us, but do you believe anything is possible cause of, of the faith that you put into the lordship of Jesus Christ?

And if you haven’t accepted him as your Lord and Savior, and you’re still listening to the line with Dennis right now, the Lord is working on you, at what point, what’s it gonna take for you to surrender? I’m praying that you do surrender. Okay guys, so this is one my, my ask is simple. Share it.

1:11:13 Pastor Joby Martin
Share it with others, right?

Go right now.

1:11:15 Chris Grainger
Click on that, share that episode and text this one out. This is one we need more, more men listening to because we know that the tomb is empty. And because it’s empty, anything is possible and we need to take a deeper look and think through this, uh, um, more often as Christian men. So share this one out.

Give us a reign review for sure. Don’t forget the community guys. We talked a lot about the community. We were talking about confessing sins and confessing things that we struggle with. This is what we do with the line within us. We serve each other. We help each other grow closer and deepen our relationships with Jesus Christ.

Guys, we can’t do this alone. Satan is going to throw everything he can to knock you, knock your marriage out, to knock your career out, to knock your kids out, just to knock you out physically, mentally, all these things, all these areas. He’s gonna use these little tricks that Pastor Jobby is talking about.

You gotta be plugged in with men to be able to defeat it. You can’t do it by yourself. I wish you could guys, but you can’t. Plug into Christ and plug into to, to a group of believers. And from there you will, you will be able to do what God has called you to do. If I pray this one serve you will come back on Friday.

I got some good tips we’re gonna share with you on Friday. I got a couple of really good dad jokes. I know you’re gonna like ’em and it’s always good just going to a Friday with a little bit of Jesus, right? Go into your Friday before you go into the weekend and let’s, and soak into the word and let’s have a little bit of fun together.

So guys, I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. This was incredible. I’m pretty jacked up right now. I think I need to go outside and run some laps or something just cause I get so fired up with, with being able to have Pastor Jovi just pour into me and, and lo and guys, I hope he poured into you too.

So, uh, and get after it. Stay strong, stay hungry. Remember anything is possible and, and always look for opportunities to unleash the lion within.